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Messages - JHelzer

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121
I have a related question about the motion of the moon in the FE model.

I understand that this diagram is a simplification to show how the Sun works and is not intended to show the movement of the moon.


In this wiki article,  https://wiki.tfes.org/The_Phases_of_the_Moon
it is explained that the Sun and moon wobble up and down to produce the moon phasing.

Additionally, the moon can't be on the opposite side from the Sun all the time, because then a solar eclipse could never happen like we saw yesterday.

Is there a more detailed explanation, diagram, or animation that shows how the moon is actually proposed to move in the FE model?

122
Flat Earth Theory / Re: The phases of the moon
« on: August 22, 2017, 02:28:10 PM »
In normal science [moon phasing] is explained with the shadow of the round earth being cast onto the light side of the moon.

Just a quick correction here.  In RE science, the phases of the moon are not an effect of the Earth's shadow.
The moon is half illuminated and half dark at all times as it moves through space (just like the Earth).  As it orbits the Earth we see the half illuminated moon from different angles.  Seeing the lit half of the moon from different angles is what causes the moon phases.

123
Which of course would not be possible with an object only 3000 miles away.

Well now hold on.  The FE community doesn't even know the distance from New York to Paris because water gets in the way of wheeled measurements.
I don't expect them to actually know, with any competence, the distance to the moon.

124
I found these two quotes in Chapter 11 of Earth, Not a Globe
Quote from: Samuel Birley Rowbotham
"A solar eclipse is the result simply of the moon passing between the sun and the observer on earth."
Quote from: Samuel Birley Rowbotham
As a solar eclipse occurs from the moon passing before the sun, so, from the evidence above collected, it is evident that a lunar eclipse arises from a similar cause...
This chapter is titled CAUSE OF SOLAR AND LUNAR ECLIPSES.  These quotes constitute the only explanation for a solar eclipse.  The entire chapter is actually about lunar eclipses.

I believe the answer to your question is: No to other eclipse causes. FE's believe that the solar eclipse is caused by the moon passing in front of the sun.

125
Flat Earth Community / Re: Distance Experiment Idea?
« on: July 27, 2017, 10:59:35 PM »
What about it? Flat Earth maps are currently under investigation. If you have some data to contribute I would suggest starting a formal thread to collect such information to share. *
The contribution is that the investigation on the Flat Earth maps can conclusively end thanks to the airline data provided here and accessible online.  Because of this data, all current Flat Earth map proposals are known to be false.   Not slightly off,  not an approximate representation, but fundamentally flawed.  This is a significant contribution to help the members of this forum and society discover and accept the truth about the shape of the Earth.  The data and it's application is not presented to antagonize or mislead, it is presented as factual information that help us accept truth and disregard falsehood.

*emphasis added by myself

126
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Fake Photo Fest
« on: July 17, 2017, 11:08:50 PM »
This thread has devolved pretty quickly. I am moving it to CN since you people can't seem to have a conversation like normal humans.

junker,  This one was a disappointing decision to me.  You've got a difficult job on here.  Thanks for all you do.

127
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Navigation
« on: July 17, 2017, 09:55:57 PM »
I am a pilot. I just flew from NY to Hong Kong. I looked at the flat earth map. If the earth was flat, navigation like we do it on every flight would be impossible.

Travel time problems (especially in the southern hemisphere/hemiplane) are one of the most easily understood and readily demonstrable proofs that the Flat Earth theory is false.  Crazy huh?

128
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Fake Photo Fest
« on: July 17, 2017, 09:44:02 PM »
... or we can leave that one and move onto the next "fake" space program image or video that someone wants to post.
Kindly explain why you think it's fake.  Something more than, "This is obviously fake" would be great.

129
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Fake Photo Fest
« on: July 17, 2017, 09:41:04 PM »
Started this topic 5 days ago and only nunya has posted anything close to what I'm asking for, so let's talk about that.
I watched the posted video with the caption -NASA Confesses all images of the Earth are fake-

The video actually shows real images from the Apollo 17 mission that are unaltered single shot photos of the earth.  It also explains how the Blue Marble 2.0 image was created by Rob Simmons.  The video does a good job of explaining that this particular image was not created from light onto film, but from real data translated into an image.  I argue that it counts as a true representation of Earth base on the information given in the video.  I don't count that as fake.  It is a true representation of real data.

NASA videos like this, disclosing the the method of the presentation of the data, give me more confidence in the image, not less.  On the other-hand, the caption on this video gives me less confidence in the Flat Earth argument.  Is there a Flat Earth believer who watched the video and can share a counter point to my argument?  The Blue Marble 2.0 is not a real photo, but it is a true representation of real data. It is a true image.

130
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Fake Photo Fest
« on: July 14, 2017, 04:44:52 AM »
A word about composite photos...
Here is an example of a composite photo that I created today.


In this set of images I took the same picture twice; once with the ball focused and once with the background focused.  Neither picture captures a clear image of the ball and the surroundings.  But when I make a composite of the two photos I get a focused background and ball.  In some places around the ball I left a bit of a fuzzy halo and a little transparency on one of the fingertips.

To me this demonstrates that a composite picture doesn't have to be fake, or an invalid representation of reality.  In some ways it is a better representation of reality than what my camera can do in one picture.  Even though it is modified, it isn't a deception; it is an enhancement.  It is still a true representation even if it isn't raw. 

This is what I believe to be the case with the NASA composite photos of the Earth.  They are a collage of real photos, made composite with the edges smoothed out or sharpened, or the colors adjusted.  Yes, NASA altered the end image, but they didn't change the Earth from a flat disc to a globe.  The composite image still show a good representation of reality.

131
Flat Earth Community / Re: Satellites
« on: July 13, 2017, 10:14:32 PM »
I do not believe the NASA narrative, too many faked vids and pictures.

I've started a new topic to discuss the fake pics and vids.

132
Flat Earth Theory / Fake Photo Fest
« on: July 13, 2017, 10:04:22 PM »
I keep hearing about all the fake NASA photos and videos, but I've never seen one.
Please take this opportunity to post some official NASA photos and videos that you claim are fake.
Please post the pictures one at a time with the source and the reason for claiming that it is fake.
Let's talk about each one.

133
Flat Earth Community / Re: Satellites
« on: July 13, 2017, 09:34:57 PM »
Here's my theory on satellites:
I think that they are above us, BUT they orbit around the top of FE like the sun and moon.
I'd like to hear your thoughts on it and feel free to say your opinion on satellites

This image shows a problem with the theory that satellites move around like the sun and moon [and stars].  In this long exposure photo, you can see the stars "moving" all together, all the same speed, the man-made satellite moves much faster and at a different angle from the rest of the universe.


Here is an image showing that the moon also appears to move in line with the stars.



134
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Antarctic 24-hour sun cycle
« on: July 13, 2017, 04:57:15 PM »
Eh - no, it doesn't.   Some of the distances are better - but no, it doesn't reproduce real world distances to anywhere near a reasonable accuracy.

Agreed.  The only way to make physics work is if the Earth is a globe.  (Which it is).
That's still my favorite Flat Earth Map.

135
Flat Earth Community / Re: Satellites
« on: July 13, 2017, 04:53:05 PM »
  • I have tracked the ISS on http://www.heavens-above.com/ and gone out in my back yard to watch it orbit over head.  (A bright dot moving across the entire sky)
  • I have watched the Space Shuttle launch on TV and then gone out at night and seen the ISS and Shuttle move across the sky.  (Two bright dots)
  • I have been to Edward's Air-force base and watched the Space Shuttle land with my own two eyes.[\li]
By the way the Shuttle landing was amazing.  Vapor clouds; sonic booms;  the Shuttle falls like a brick until if lifts its nose at the last second.  That thing can't fly, it was definitely in space for the week previous to landing.  This stuff isn't faked, I was there and saw it come in.

Now we have SpaceX delivering payloads to orbit and returning the first stage rocket 9 minutes after launch.  All with people watching with telescopes and live video.  Again, not faked.

Flat Earth Theory must adjust for the commercial space program being real.  It is too obvious that satellites are functional.  And as commercial spacecraft start seeing the same things out there that NASA saw, it also becomes apparent that the NASA space program wasn't faked either.


136
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Antarctic 24-hour sun cycle
« on: July 11, 2017, 10:47:08 PM »
How in the world does that map work? It seems like you could only use up to two adjacent single square sections at any one time. What goes on at the intersections of what I presume is the equator?

You are exactly right.  We have to use our imagination a little bit to make it work.
But that's the same with every FE map.

137
Flat Earth Theory / Re: Antarctic 24-hour sun cycle
« on: July 11, 2017, 09:54:11 PM »
So, the answer to my question on whether there is a decent map is apparently no.

This is my favorite map.  It makes the southern hemisphere flight times work.


It seems to me that you [Tom Bishop] enjoy a certain degree of authority among the flat earth believers on this forum, so it is remarkable if you and the wiki disagree in such an important question.
It seems to me that the flatness of the Earth is only a secondary concern to Tom - or rather it is merely a consequence of his primary belief.  What I have observed Tom's primary argument to be is... The Earth is not a globe.  Not exactly sure what it is, but it definitely is not a globe.
(Tom, please correct me where I am wrong)

138
Flat Earth Community / Re: The Wall
« on: July 11, 2017, 09:09:02 PM »

139
Flat Earth Community / Re: Moon and Sun Angles Don't Line Up
« on: July 11, 2017, 08:43:15 PM »
Nobulart, your shadows on the 3rd (woman on the beach far right) and 4th pictures (awning shadow far left portion of the house on the right) do not line up with the sun, how can we trust that the lens distortion ... or whatever... isn't so bad that drawing a line from point a to point b on any of them are true to life representations?

I printed out the picture and bent it into a semi-circle.  Bam!  The sun and the woman's shadow lined right up.  I also domed the sky and cut up a line of sticky notes. Bam!  The sun and the moon's shadow line right up. 

Following the horizon from the moon to the sun isn't the only straight line between them.  The one that bisects the moon is the true straight line in 3D space.  The rest are illusions.

Here's a pic...   (my dome cutting was off a little, but it's really close  ;))

140
Flat Earth Community / Unsouled -Will Wight
« on: July 08, 2017, 03:36:44 AM »
Dear Flat Earth Society,
I just started reading Unsouled (Cradle Book 1) by Will Wight and found a quote that I thought you all could appreciate...

Quote from: Will Wight
The foundation of any Path is learning to accept the world as it is, not as you wish or even observe it to be.

I thought of you when I read it.  Enjoy.

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