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### Messages - JHelzer

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101
##### Flat Earth Theory / Re: Old video footage of space
« on: September 11, 2017, 08:26:03 PM »
Squirrel do you have anyway to back that up? Of course not, this is the same organization that lost all records of the greatest achievement of mankind. Duh

50 years later and were still buying our rockets from Russia. They go up, tip over and plummet to the ocean. nice, that's science baby

Where have you been for the past year?
SpaceX lands their rocket cores now.

102
##### Flat Earth Theory / Re: Using airline flight data.
« on: August 31, 2017, 05:30:49 PM »
Thank you 3DGeek for another summary.

Tom and FE community.

Unless there is a way to demonstrate that all forms of flight speed have margins of error greater than 200% in the southern hemiplane relative to the northern hemiplane then we can proceed with the following thought experiment to come to the truth of the matter.

If time and distance can be measured by flat earth compatible systems of measurement then speed can be measured by flat earth compatible systems of measurement.  If a new system of speed measurement is calibrated using flat earth systems of measuring both time and distance then it is a flat earth compatible system of measuring speed.  At this point the speed measurement device is now verified as valid on a flat plane regardless of what units of measurement it uses as input or output.  If the newly minted flat earth compatible system of measuring speed is used on a series of flights between 4 distant cities on both hemiplanes it's data, regardless of units of measurement, can be used to solve for an unknown distance on a flat plane due to the verification of its ability to measure speed on a flat plane using known methods.  If the distances plotted on a flat piece of paper do not result in a mathematically sound quadrilateral it is geometrically impossible for the earth to be flat.

We have provided evidence that when measured on a metered track 2 different methods of tracking flight speed were within an acceptable margin of error for any flight.  1 of the 2 methods of measuring flight speed exceeds the acceptable margin of error only during maneuvers that are physically impossible for an airliner to make.  This means that both systems of tracking flight speed are verified as accurate on a flat plane for the experiment in question.  Additionally, both systems of speed measurement produce data that is within an acceptable margin of error with respect to each other in all flight tests.

It is therefor mathematically impossible for the earth to be a continuous flat plane.

Thank you,

CriticalThinker

I'm still going to make my Flight Time Map.  I've been gathering data to get started and will start a new Topic for the project when I'm ready.

103
##### Flat Earth Theory / Re: Cartography and a flat earth
« on: August 30, 2017, 07:22:39 PM »
I need times based on departures and arrivals of real passenger jets.  Please point me in the right direction to be able to find acceptable data.

https://flightaware.com/

That is perfect.  Thank you.

104
##### Flat Earth Theory / Re: Cartography and a flat earth
« on: August 29, 2017, 09:45:01 PM »
Ok. I have been looking around and getting ready to start the Flight Time Map project, but have run into a bump.

I was wanting to use https://openflights.org to get flight time data, but I discovered that they just calculate the times based on distance.
In real-life this works perfectly, but I know that it will completely ruin the validity of my model in this forum.

I need times based on departures and arrivals of real passenger jets.  Please point me in the right direction to be able to find acceptable data.
Many thanks.

105
##### Flat Earth Theory / Re: Cartography and a flat earth
« on: August 29, 2017, 01:06:54 PM »
You're going to gather distance data based on Round Earth lat/lon coordinate devices to tell me that those devices show Round Earth distances?
...

I will not gather distance data based on Round Earth lat/lon.  I will use flight times.  The time it takes from point A to point B doesn't depend on lat/lon or satellites.  It just is what it is.
...

What makes you think that the flight times aren't generated based on Round Earth lat/lon coordinate devices?

Using calculated distances would be as you say, "based on Round Earth lat/lon coordinate devices".
But using logged flight times is not calculated at all.  It is very simple, historical data.  It isn't based on a compass or a GPS, it isn't round or flat data. It is just how long it takes to get from place to place.

I will be assuming that the airplanes fly at close to the same speed so I won't need to make any calculations.
I'll need to use the logs from each route as if flies in both directions to compensate for jetstream and I may as well average several flights.

I am planning to make card board cut-outs of the continents.  Then cut wires to the length of the flight times.  I will attach the wires to the cities on the continents and allow them to arrange them selves into the space of our world.

It won't be precise, but I will forgive the margin of error in my map.  A little error will cause a warble in my map, but a warped flat map is an acceptable margin of error for me.  Certainly, 10 minutes of error in a flight time can.t bend my flat earth into a globe.

If I get a warped flat map then the world is flat.  If I get a warped globe map, then the world is a globe.

106
##### Flat Earth Theory / Re: Cartography and a flat earth
« on: August 29, 2017, 04:35:41 AM »
You're going to gather distance data based on Round Earth lat/lon coordinate devices to tell me that those devices show Round Earth distances?

If you ask us to accept the distance result of those Round Earth lat/lon coordinate devices without question, you might as well just ask us to assume that the earth is round.

I will not gather distance data based on Round Earth lat/lon.  I will use flight times.  The time it takes from point A to point B doesn't depend on lat/lon or satellites.  It just is what it is.

I will not ask you to accept my result.  I am making this flat map for myself and sharing it with this community.  If you want a map that you will accept, you can make it yourself.

Tom,  I am not motivated to prove to you the shape of the Earth.  Logic tells me that if the world really is flat, then putting it on a flat piece of paper will be an easy exercise.  I'm going to try it.

107
##### Flat Earth Theory / Re: Cartography and a flat earth
« on: August 29, 2017, 03:33:22 AM »
If the Earth really is flat, then it would be simple to map it on a flat paper.

Go ahead and map the world for us then, if you think it is so easy.

Tom, I'll take you up on your challenge.
I'll gather some distance data and make a map.
If the Earth truly is flat, my map will be easy to make and come out flat.
If the Earth isn't flat, it will be hard to force onto a flat plane and it will come out some other shape.

Again, I repeat.  A flat world would be easy to map onto a flat piece of paper.  It is a wonder it hasn't been done.

108
##### Flat Earth Theory / Re: Cartography and a flat earth
« on: August 28, 2017, 08:23:15 PM »
I see this as a very compelling question for the Flat Earth Society to answer.

If the Earth really is flat, then it would be simple to map it on a flat paper.
How is it possible that we don't have an accurate flat map of a flat Earth?

Just thinking about that question casts a huge shadow over all FE arguments.
The truth is that mapping the Earth on a flat plane is impossible.  That is why no one has ever been able to do it.
No flat map is a strong argument that the Earth is not flat.

109
##### Flat Earth Theory / Re: ISS Video of Hurricane Harvey
« on: August 28, 2017, 05:16:52 PM »
Turns out the ustream video isn't very "live".
Every time I refresh it starts over at the same time slot.
I'm searching for a video feed that is actually real-time now.
Perhaps this one from youtube will work https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtU_mdL2vBM
I watch it for a while and see if it matches up with the tracker.

110
##### Flat Earth Theory / Re: ISS Video of Hurricane Harvey
« on: August 28, 2017, 04:04:25 PM »
Here is a live stream of the ISS.

Not Months of processing, not weeks, not days.  This is live.
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/live-iss-stream

And here is a realtime ISS tracking website.
http://www.isstracker.com/

I can only assume that these two peaces of alleged Real-Time data fit together, but I'll try an experiment and see if the weather condition I view in the sky outside my house match the images shown on the ustream when the isstracker says it should.

If anyone would like to join me, I welcome your participation.

111
##### Flat Earth Theory / Re: Do passenger airplane windows distort camera photos?
« on: August 28, 2017, 03:56:01 PM »
So back on topic.
We can all see the curvature of the Earth in every high altitude photo.
If a passenger jet is not flying high enough to show the curvature from left to right, it still shows the curvature away from the viewer.

The horizon does not continue to rise to the vanishing point as it should on a flat Earth.  Instead it curves down, away, out of sight. It does this in all directions.  This is simple easy proof that the Earth is a globe.

112
##### Flat Earth Theory / Re: Are there any FE who think it's NOT the moon causing the eclipse?
« on: August 25, 2017, 11:06:25 PM »
I don't think that animation is intended to depict the whole year, it is more of a "day in the life" image.  It shows the FE idea of where the sun and moon would be on a particular day (apparently a full moon day near one of the equinoxes, based on the sun's position at or just barely north of the equator).

All of that is exactly what I meant when I said, "I understand that this diagram is a simplification".

Dear Flat Earth Society,
Is there a diagram that is not a simplification?
Sincerely,
JHelzer

113
##### Flat Earth Theory / ISS Video of Hurricane Harvey
« on: August 25, 2017, 10:58:04 PM »
When I look at this video released from the International Space Station looking down at Hurricane Harvey, it looks absolutely real to me.

• It is higher than any plane can fly.
• It is moving faster than any plane can fly.
• It is current.  Harvey is happening today and there it is.

What about this video is not believable?
Come on guys.  Believe with me that the ISS is just what NASA and Russia and Japan and Europe say it is.

https://youtu.be/WjxZd7fPSVI

114
##### Flat Earth Community / Re: Flat Earth Expedition to Antartica
« on: August 23, 2017, 06:12:25 AM »
Make sure you go in December so you can see the Sun spin around the horizon.  Then you can come back to tell us all about how cool that was.  I've seen it in the north during the summer when I lived in Sweden.  I also saw the opposite in the winter when the Sun only just popped over the horizon for 3 hours per day.  Amazing, but not great.  Really, really cold.
Good luck on your expedition.

115
##### Flat Earth Community / Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
« on: August 23, 2017, 05:58:00 AM »
Except when it's an annular solar eclipse.

Excellent point.

How can the annular solar eclipse be explained by a FE model where the Sun and Moon are the same size?

116
##### Flat Earth Theory / Re: Are there any FE who think it's NOT the moon causing the eclipse?
« on: August 23, 2017, 05:21:34 AM »
I think you know the answer to that question.  FE claims there is no real FE map, and that diagrams in the Wiki are just examples.  What I wonder is how is the Wiki the end all when people say to read it, but when you quote it you are told that it's only for examples.

I've seen what TomInAustin is talking about happen before on this message board, but am hoping it won't happen this time.  Can someone point me to a more detailed description of the moon's motion relative to the Earth and Sun?  I'd like to see a description, diagram, or animation that shows how the moon cycles through its phases and how it periodically ends up on the same side as the sun to enable a solar eclipse.

117
##### Flat Earth Community / Re: How far was it from the Sun to the Moon ?
« on: August 22, 2017, 10:33:45 PM »
Why your beliefs of the 2500-3000 miles altitude "measurements" could be accurate more than my crazy thoughts of existence of other suns and them having variable heights relatively to periods of days/weeks/months? This is the same types of beliefs as spheroid earth!
...
I don't have much of the personal real evidence: only videos and comments on the internet as possible clues and hints.
My assumption is that suns also have variable sizes, irradiances, brightnesses, so as the moons and some of the stars, and, mine most crazy one - planets. I was perhaps wrong about quantity of suns: it's less than 50!

Almost all the sky objects, if not all, are definitely artificial. These objects presumably are working because of highly-advanced holographic shells(disc of the sun, face of the moon) with a projector supposedly located within the shell. Don't ask me yet who made them - i just can't say 'i know', i only have assumptions ...

Holy cow!  I just love this forum.

118
##### Flat Earth Community / Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
« on: August 22, 2017, 10:28:12 PM »
Here is a wikipedia quote on the same subject...
Quote
While gravitation causes acceleration and movement of the Earth's fluid oceans, gravitational coupling between the Moon and Earth's solid body is mostly elastic and plastic. The result is a further tidal effect of the Moon on the Earth that causes a bulge of the solid portion of the Earth nearest the Moon that acts as a torque in opposition to the Earth's rotation. This "drains" angular momentum and rotational kinetic energy from Earth's spin, slowing the Earth's rotation. That angular momentum, lost from the Earth, is transferred to the Moon in a process (confusingly known as tidal acceleration), which lifts the Moon into a higher orbit and results in its lower orbital speed about the Earth. Thus the distance between Earth and Moon is increasing, and the Earth's spin is slowing in reaction. Measurements from laser reflectors left during the Apollo missions (lunar ranging experiments) have found that the Moon's distance increases by 38 mm (1.5 in) per year (roughly the rate at which human fingernails grow). Atomic clocks also show that Earth's day lengthens by about 15 microseconds every year.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon#Tidal_effects

Did you notice that the Moon moves away from Earth the same amount that human fingernails grow? What a coincidence!!!

Not really.  As the distance between the Moon and the Earth increases, the effect of tidal acceleration decreases so in millions of years the Moon's yearly increase in distance will be less then a human finger nail grows.  Dang it!  Probability again.

119
##### Flat Earth Community / Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
« on: August 22, 2017, 09:20:37 PM »
... the Sun and Moon appear to be the same size from earth and fit perfectly into each other during the Solar Eclipse. The official scientific reason for this is that it is a coincidence.

Coincidence is an interesting way of putting it.  Probability is the word I would choose.  Look at this...
Quote from: David Doran
At present, the Moon gets 3.8 cm further away from Earth every year, and it was much closer to Earth in prehistoric times.
https://www.spaceanswers.com/solar-system/will-the-moon-ever-leave-earths-orbit/

For millions of years the moon has appeared to be larger than the sun and for millions of years into the future the moon will appear to be smaller than the sun.  At some point in the cosmic time line it must appear the same size.  That is not coincidence; that's probability.

120
##### Flat Earth Community / Re: Reminder: The Moon Covers the Sun in Total Eclipse Because 'Coincidence'
« on: August 22, 2017, 08:13:43 PM »
If the sun is the same size as the moon, where does it get all it's energy from?
Why hasn't it already burned up all it's fuel?

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