Convince me
« on: March 24, 2019, 02:24:36 AM »
Here's everything I think proves the round earth, I hope I get disproved!

1: tilt of the earth causes seasons (hemisphere is closer during summer, further during winter).
2: Eclipse shadow is round, not an ellipse.
3: Can bring the sun back into view after sunlight by flying a drone above the curve.
4: Iake Pontchartrain power lines.
5: Occam's Razor
6: Trips to the South Pole (before satellite images) should have documented what the map looks like, but they didn't.
7: Water bottle when viewed horizontally in an airplane doesn't line up with the horizon.
8: Human eye can see 5 kilometer when on the ground, but from higher up you can see further over the curve (can see Iran on Burj khalifa, can't on eye level)
9: Conspiracy is too big, and private companies/foreign nations should have no interest in keeping the conspiracy alive (SpaceX, INCOSPAR, CNES, etc.).
10: Ships sink into the horizon, even in clear weather.
11: Different stars in different hemispheres

I know that there's a chance that all of that is wrong, but there's also a chance that you're wrong.  ;)

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Offline QED

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Re: Convince me
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2019, 03:34:16 AM »
I like your #7, that’s fresh.

The rest are what we get here 50 times a day. So don’t get your hopes up about getting in depth replies.
The fact.that it's an old equation without good.demonstration of the underlying mechamism behind it makes.it more invalid, not more valid!

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Offline Dr David Thork

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Re: Convince me
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2019, 04:27:12 PM »
I like your #7, that’s fresh.

The rest are what we get here 50 times a day. So don’t get your hopes up about getting in depth replies.

The water in your bottle curves. That's called a meniscus. The sea is flat ... which is why it is called sea level. #7 only reasserts the fact earth is flat.
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Offline ChrisTP

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Re: Convince me
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2019, 05:01:53 PM »
I like your #7, that’s fresh.

The rest are what we get here 50 times a day. So don’t get your hopes up about getting in depth replies.

The water in your bottle curves. That's called a meniscus. The sea is flat ... which is why it is called sea level. #7 only reasserts the fact earth is flat.
It barely makes a difference, the curving on the edges of water in a bottle is minimal. if the space between the top of the curved edges of the water and the bottom of the surface of the water are (on average) offset from the horizon then it doesn't line up. That said I don't really see this as a decent test for flat/round earth anyway, the horizon could well be your limited visibility because of the atmosphere effectively 'lowering' the edge of the earth in your sight, which would happen on a flat or curved surface. It's not the most controlled of tests even if it favours a round earth.
Tom is wrong most of the time. Hardly big news, don't you think?

Offline JCM

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Re: Convince me
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2019, 05:11:54 PM »
I like your #7, that’s fresh.

The rest are what we get here 50 times a day. So don’t get your hopes up about getting in depth replies.

The water in your bottle curves. That's called a meniscus. The sea is flat ... which is why it is called sea level. #7 only reasserts the fact earth is flat.

What about sea level makes the Earth flat?   The sea is at different levels all the time!  Tides, storm surge, etc etc all greatly affect water level.  Sure, if you ignore all facts and all of science and replace it with imagination then the Earth is flat.

Literally, nothing works on the flat Earth that matches the simplest of observation without appealing to magical undefined forces which don’t match observations even if they existed.

While the OP is correct in that the Earth is undeniably a barely measurable bulge from a perfect sphere, the OP doesn’t even use the best evidence of the globular Earth.

I’ll help the OP out here...

1.  Phases of the moon as seen across the Earth are impossible with a near sun/moon system without creating a self illuminating migrating light source which coincidentally always points towards the Sun and creates shadows to fool us since the Sun and moon cannot be placed above a flat earth to create them and match day/night.

2. Two celestial axi both above the surface of the Earth with accompanying star trails and straight trails at the Equator.  Either the Earth is a sphere and the Universe circles us (which has its own mountain of issues) or the Earth is a sphere and spins approximately once per 24 hours.  If the Earth were flat, then star trails would look like they do at the equator and always look that way, but they don’t...  you go north the axis of rotation becomes higher and higher, same for southerly direction.

3. The suns speed on its path does not increase while it approaches Tropic of Capricorn, or slow down on its path towards Tropic of Cancer as required by a near moon/sun system to create our seasons.

4.  Solar eclipses...  the moon does not follow the same path as the sun as required of it to cause solar eclipses at any time of the year.

5. Distances in Southern Hemisphere and southern direct flights between Santiago/Australia/Johannesburg etc.  This has been done to death, but these flights exist and are taken by millions.

6. 24 hour sun and darkness in the north and south as predicted by a titled spherical Earth.  Millions of people have seen the 24 hour sun in both hemispheres. This is not possible on any FE map without creating even bigger problems (ie bipolar/duel earth etc).

These are the easy ones...  there are many more that FE has zero answer for, I use these ones because bendy light, too many FE models (with possible exception of 6) and magic perspective can’t save FET.  If FE model can’t explain these incredibly basic undeniably true observations then it is dead in the water.  No arguments about gravity or relativity to change the subject have anything to do with them. 

 

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Offline QED

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Re: Convince me
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2019, 01:54:58 AM »
I like your #7, that’s fresh.

The rest are what we get here 50 times a day. So don’t get your hopes up about getting in depth replies.

The water in your bottle curves. That's called a meniscus. The sea is flat ... which is why it is called sea level. #7 only reasserts the fact earth is flat.

The meniscus is caused by surface tension. #7 talks about something else entirely, and the meniscus is an irrelevant aspect.
The fact.that it's an old equation without good.demonstration of the underlying mechamism behind it makes.it more invalid, not more valid!

- Tom Bishop

We try to represent FET in a model-agnostic way

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Offline mo

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Re: Convince me
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2019, 09:47:44 AM »
Clearly, every flat earther is only bothered about point 7. what about the rest? Could you guys explain point 4 and 8?

Re: Convince me
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2019, 09:59:02 AM »
agree

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Offline QED

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Re: Convince me
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2019, 11:27:57 AM »
I have no idea what #4 is about, do you?
The fact.that it's an old equation without good.demonstration of the underlying mechamism behind it makes.it more invalid, not more valid!

- Tom Bishop

We try to represent FET in a model-agnostic way

- Pete Svarrior

Re: Convince me
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2019, 02:12:21 PM »
I have no idea what #4 is about, do you?

You've never heard of point 4 before?
It's basically this image.

It's often presented as a proof against flat earth by showing curvature. I think there a few threads here somewhere discussing and debating it.
We are smarter than those scientists.
I see multiple contradicting explanations. You guys should have a pow-wow and figure out how your model works.

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Offline QED

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Re: Convince me
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2019, 02:19:58 PM »
I have no idea what #4 is about, do you?

You've never heard of point 4 before?
It's basically this image.

It's often presented as a proof against flat earth by showing curvature. I think there a few threads here somewhere discussing and debating it.

Oh I see. Thanks!

I imagine that the response to this is to use vanishing perspective theory to explain that the apparent curvature is actually an optical effect of parallel lines converging in interesting ways as they approach the limit of one’s vision.

I don’t really understand how VPT can simultaneously explain the sinking ship effect and this bridge effect. Maybe somone who is more knowledgable can chime in?
The fact.that it's an old equation without good.demonstration of the underlying mechamism behind it makes.it more invalid, not more valid!

- Tom Bishop

We try to represent FET in a model-agnostic way

- Pete Svarrior

Offline ChrisTP

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Re: Convince me
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2019, 04:15:29 PM »
Apart from perspective doesn't curve anything, it is as straight forward as you'd expect. You have a cone of vision and closer things will take up more space in that cone, while further away things will take up less. There is no bending or curving of light via ones perspective. You can rule out any optical illusions but simply drawing straight lines in the image to represent lines converging into the vanishing point.

The only other explanation is that it's all a mirage... I'd like to see people prove it's the effect of a mirage before making up any other excuse..
« Last Edit: March 28, 2019, 02:03:17 PM by ChrisTP »
Tom is wrong most of the time. Hardly big news, don't you think?

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Offline QED

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Re: Convince me
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2019, 05:26:00 PM »
Apart from perspective doesn't curve anything, it is as straight forward as you'd expect. You have a cone of vision and closer things will take up more space in that cone, while further away things will take up less. There is no bending or curving of light via ones perspective. You can rule out any optical illusions but simply drawing straight lines in the image to represent lines converging into the vanishing point.

The only other explanation is that it's all a mirage... I'd like to see people prove it's the effect of a mirage before making up any other excuse.

But then VPT doesn’t explain the bridge, right? Isn’t it supposed to?
The fact.that it's an old equation without good.demonstration of the underlying mechamism behind it makes.it more invalid, not more valid!

- Tom Bishop

We try to represent FET in a model-agnostic way

- Pete Svarrior

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Convince me
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2019, 05:41:06 PM »
Soundly's image was unable to be replicated:



Soundly is apparently just cherry picking images. Here is a time lapse from that same area:

« Last Edit: March 27, 2019, 05:43:00 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline WellRoundedIndividual

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Re: Convince me
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2019, 05:53:36 PM »
Yeah, I wasn't going to chime in on this one, but I think that I remember seeing somewhere else that that photo in particular had been photoshopped. This was before I found the flat earth stuff here. But I could be wrong. I never really investigated it much. Looks like I will need to reinvestigate.

Update*  https://flatearth.ws/pontchartrain#but_the_pictures_are_fake

Take it for what its worth...

https://www.metabunk.org/soundly-proving-the-curvature-of-the-earth-at-lake-pontchartrain.t8939/

I know people here don't think much of the two websites I linked, but oh well...

The person Tom references - Soundly - even did a live Youtube of him taking the photos and uploading the files to his Google Drive.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2019, 06:04:55 PM by WellRoundedIndividual »
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Offline iamcpc

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Re: Convince me
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2019, 06:07:42 PM »
Here's everything I think proves the round earth, I hope I get disproved!

You already painted yourself into a corner of failure when you used words "proved" like  "disproved". What you have presented is not PROOF. What you have presented is EVIDENCE which, in your OPINION, supports a round earth model. I can not PROVE anything.  I can, however, provide either contracting EVIDENCE. I can also provide EVIDENCE which suggest that the EVIDENCE you have presented it more about some other phenomenon and less about the shape of the earth.


In addition there are many flat earth models which present the same evidence as supporting a flat earth model. There are tilted flat earth models in which the tilt of the flat earth can contribute to seasons.




1: tilt of the earth causes seasons (hemisphere is closer during summer, further during winter).
2: Eclipse shadow is round, not an ellipse.
3: Can bring the sun back into view after sunlight by flying a drone above the curve.
4: Iake Pontchartrain power lines.
5: Occam's Razor
6: Trips to the South Pole (before satellite images) should have documented what the map looks like, but they didn't.
7: Water bottle when viewed horizontally in an airplane doesn't line up with the horizon.
8: Human eye can see 5 kilometer when on the ground, but from higher up you can see further over the curve (can see Iran on Burj khalifa, can't on eye level)
9: Conspiracy is too big, and private companies/foreign nations should have no interest in keeping the conspiracy alive (SpaceX, INCOSPAR, CNES, etc.).
10: Ships sink into the horizon, even in clear weather.
11: Different stars in different hemispheres

Here I will not present any PROOF. I will present EVIDENCE and alternate THEORIES to your observations.

1. The length of day is longer in the summer and shorter in the winter which is the cause of seasons not the tilt of the earth.
1. There are some flat earth models in which the earth is tilted so this claim could be made about the flat earth.
2. There are many ideas about a lunar eclipse and no uniform response. Different models have different ideas.
2. There are flat earth models which claim this observation supports a flat earth.
2. The light from the sun is refracted through the atmosphere which causes a round circle when in fact it's not really round.
3. Because the air is thinner at higher altitudes an increase in altitude will logically bring things back into view on a flat earth as well.
4. Contradicting evidence presented in this thread.
4. photoshop
4. Refraction
5. Occam's razor, known as the law of parsimony (Latin: lex parsimoniae) is the problem-solving principle that essentially states that "simpler solutions are more likely to be correct than complex ones. In many cases a flat earth is simpler than a round one therefore more likely to be correct.
6. There are many flat earth models in which observations made to trips to the south pole match predictions made in those specific flat earth models.
6. There is no south pole therefore observations made at some random snowy place don't have any bearing on anything
7. Refraction again
7. There are flat earth models which predict this will happen and therefore supports those specific flat earth models.
8. Refraction again
8. There are flat earth models which predict this will happen and therefore supports those specific flat earth models.
9. I have not really researched the conspiracy aspect of this.
10. Refraction again
10. There are flat earth models which predict this will happen and therefore supports those specific flat earth models.
11. Refraction again
11. There are flat earth models which predict this will happen and therefore supports those specific flat earth models.





more detail about 10 and 4.

If something in the distance disappearing from the bottom up = round earth  then, based on the time lapse video shown below, the earth alternates between being round and flat. Which round earthers and flat earthers alike will both disagree on.
This video STRONGLY suggests that something can disappear in the distance from the bottom up without any curve at all.




Just because we observe an arrow facing right does not mean that it is really facing right. Many of your refraction based claims are like saying if there is a right arrow then the earth is round. Look there is a right arrow. When, after removing the refractive material, we can easily see the arrow facing left.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2019, 06:22:59 PM by iamcpc »

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Convince me
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2019, 06:15:04 PM »
Update*  https://flatearth.ws/pontchartrain#but_the_pictures_are_fake
Quote
There is no off the shelf software who can output a CR2 file. If someone wants to fake a CR2 file, they need to create their own software. It is going to be a massive undertaking to fake this picture.

What is this drivel? CR2 is just Canon's proprietary flavour of camera RAW images. Most common photo development software, for example Lightroom, will handle it with no issue.

When they get such simple and trivially verifiable issues completely wrong, the desperation really shows. Let's not waste our time with flatearth.ws
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Twitter and Facebook!

If we are not speculating then we must assume

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Offline WellRoundedIndividual

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Re: Convince me
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2019, 07:37:35 PM »
I am not too familiar with editing RAW images. Are you saying that Photoshop and its ilk can edit a RAW image and save it as a RAW image?
BobLawBlah.

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Offline Jeppspace

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Re: Convince me
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2019, 10:09:43 PM »
@iamcpc That is a neat water trick.
Anyone who would pay Richard Branson hundreds of thousands of dollars for the visual confirmation that we are all doomed to the unforgiving abyss of space, definitely deserves to know that.

: Infinite ¥ : Szion = : Plane

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Offline stack

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Re: Convince me
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2019, 11:18:35 PM »
Update*  https://flatearth.ws/pontchartrain#but_the_pictures_are_fake
Quote
There is no off the shelf software who can output a CR2 file. If someone wants to fake a CR2 file, they need to create their own software. It is going to be a massive undertaking to fake this picture.

What is this drivel? CR2 is just Canon's proprietary flavour of camera RAW images. Most common photo development software, for example Lightroom, will handle it with no issue.

When they get such simple and trivially verifiable issues completely wrong, the desperation really shows. Let's not waste our time with flatearth.ws

I think you missed the point, you can easily import RAW, but you can't export RAW.

You are correct, CR2 is just Canon's proprietary flavor of camera RAW images. However, what they are saying is that you can't save as/export/output from a photo editor (Photoshop, Lightroom, etc.) to CR2. The point being, the CR2 RAW files are just that, RAW, exactly as they were imaged by the camera sensor. In other words, unedited - You can't import a RAW file (in this case a CR2), edit it, and export it back out as a RAW file (CR2) as it is no longer RAW. You're the one who got simple and trivially verifiable issues completely wrong.