Re: Which space missions do you consider to be legitimate?
« Reply #40 on: August 09, 2015, 02:27:07 PM »
Don't flatter yourselves, the FES is not on NASA'a radar (or anybody else's for that matter).
I have been personally approached by both NASA and the Library of Congress regarding this site.

Why did NASA and the LoC approach you about FES?  Not a jab, just curious.
I have visited from prestigious research institutions of the highest caliber, to which only our administrator holds with confidence.

Re: Which space missions do you consider to be legitimate?
« Reply #41 on: August 09, 2015, 04:09:26 PM »
Sigh. Okay, you numpty. Here, have a link.

Great SW, thanks for the link.

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Wow, that was hard

In the link you state:
"To those not in the know, this pamphlet was Rowbotham's first attempt at laying down his model of the Flat Earth, which has then been expanded into the much more thorough book Earth Not a Globe."

Wouldn't you expect me to be one of those people "not in the know?"

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Given that our store is entirely non-profit

Oh good. But you are misunderstanding what I stated. I was comparing the collecting of knowledge and the scientific method with perceptions which are sometimes wrong and then went on to list how I was perceiving you. IOW I wasn't stating that my perceptions were real. I was trying to explain why basing your world view on "obvious" perceptions can be faulty. Sorry that was not clear.

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You do realize that bananas are made of the same elements as everything else right? Carbon, Hydrogen, Oxygen, etc.

I do realise that that's the claim. I'd like to see it confirmed through a simple and direct experiment.

Ok this is a concern. Is this for real? You aren't pulling my leg?

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In place of the lead spheres on the balance arm we place fishbowls filled with the goop of Vitamixed whole bananas.

Excellent, now go and perform it.

So you would accept my results? I'm having some doubts about that SW seeing how FEers seem to reject the results of scientists and how you perceive me to be a poser. But oh look it's a simple experiment that anyone can do for themselves. At least to verify that matter attracts matter, not maybe as easy to determine the value of the constant of gravity though.
https://www.fourmilab.ch/gravitation/foobar/

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I just find it hilarious that you know fuck all about the subjects you talk about. Googling "why is islam wrong" doesn't make you quite the genius you try to pose as.

I'm posing as a genious now? I got to those passages by reading through the Qur'an online BTW.
http://quran.com/

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Why did NASA and the LoC approach you about FES?  Not a jab, just curious.

I agree with this request from Gary. This is the part of your story that was interesting.

Re: Which space missions do you consider to be legitimate?
« Reply #42 on: August 09, 2015, 04:19:48 PM »
AFA "yec" goes.......they are, i think, right in some areas and wrong in others......

I am not YEC. I have debated against YEC showing that the earth is very old and evolution is real. I'm glad Rayzor is willing to bite. I think these more advanced topics are pointless to take up if you can't even wrap your head around conservation of momentum. Good to see what passes as "research" in your view as well.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2015, 04:22:07 PM by frisbee »

Offline Yendor

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Re: Which space missions do you consider to be legitimate?
« Reply #43 on: August 09, 2015, 04:22:38 PM »
Rockets need an atmosphere to push against

No they don't. See previous post for the explanation. In fact in the example given if the pressure outside were at 1 PSI there would be no thrust at all. If at 1/2 PSI there would be some thrust but not as much as there would be in a vacuum.

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try putting your knees in an office chair that has rollers and face the seat back and begin pushing on the seat back, make sure you don't use your feet. Tell me how far you move. I'd venture to you wont move at all. The same as a rocket, it won't move with pressure pushing on its self.


Now perform an experiment for me. Make sure you are on a rolling chair with very little friction on a hard surface. Have someone hand you a bowling ball and then throw it any direction you like as hard as you can. That is basically the principle of how a rocket engine works. If you are really adventurous you could build a chamber large enough to perform this experiment in a vacuum. Throwing the bowling ball still makes you move in the opposite direction. Don't forget your goggles and air tank.

you used the bowling ball nonsense? Just think for a second. When you push the bowling ball away from you, you are applying a force with your arms and hands while pushing the ball outwards and you are applying that force against the 14.7 psi atmospheric pressure. If you can find a true vacuum chamber large enough for you to get in and it pulls the same vacuum as space, I guarantee you will not move any when you push the ball outwards. Tell me one thing on Earth that can move without applying force to something.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Which space missions do you consider to be legitimate?
« Reply #44 on: August 09, 2015, 04:54:40 PM »
Wouldn't you expect me to be one of those people "not in the know?"
Honestly, I would, but you were claiming to have done your research. I could choose between taking your word for it and seeing how far you'll take it before you admit it, or I could point it out straight away and be accused of making unfair accusations. I chose the former.

Ok this is a concern. Is this for real? You aren't pulling my leg?
Okay, fair enough, I misspoke on that one. I don't claim that bananas consist of other elements than anything else in the world.

So you would accept my results? I'm having some doubts about that SW seeing how FEers seem to reject the results of scientists and how you perceive me to be a poser.
This is where we differ. You "perceive", I observe. So far, you've been acting like a poser. When you stop acting like one, I'll stop treating you like one.

Why did NASA and the LoC approach you about FES?  Not a jab, just curious.
I'll keep the NASA contact to myself, it was fairly private. If you choose to disbelieve me on the basis of no evidence, that's fine.

LoC contacted me while I was hunting for some documents around other (mostly UK-based) libraries to offer assistance. They likely got my details from one of the libraries I initiated contact with.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Twitter and Facebook!

If we are not speculating then we must assume

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Re: Which space missions do you consider to be legitimate?
« Reply #45 on: August 09, 2015, 05:41:26 PM »
Frisbee,

You haven't got an answer to my question?

you used the bowling ball nonsense? Just think for a second. When you push the bowling ball away from you, you are applying a force with your arms and hands while pushing the ball outwards and you are applying that force against the 14.7 psi atmospheric pressure. If you can find a true vacuum chamber large enough for you to get in and it pulls the same vacuum as space, I guarantee you will not move any when you push the ball outwards. Tell me one thing on Earth that can move without applying force to something.

Re: Which space missions do you consider to be legitimate?
« Reply #46 on: August 09, 2015, 06:20:42 PM »
I guarantee you will not move any when you push the ball outwards.

Trolling now?

I said throw the bowling ball away from you as you sit on your chair (or skateboard or ice skates), not push it out to arms length.

All that needs to be done to disprove your assertion is to use both the bowling ball and the same size styrofoam ball in the experiment. If the movement is due to pushing against the air then the amount of movement you experience in the other direction should be the same in both cases. No need for a vacuum chamber to discredit this idea.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2015, 06:28:38 PM by frisbee »

Re: Which space missions do you consider to be legitimate?
« Reply #47 on: August 09, 2015, 06:24:03 PM »
poser...

It's quite alright. I don't really care what you think of me.  :-*

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Re: Which space missions do you consider to be legitimate?
« Reply #48 on: August 09, 2015, 06:38:22 PM »
It's quite alright. I don't really care what you think of me.  :-*
That's fine. I'm just trying to have you understand the difference between thinking something baselessly (what you do) and making an observation (what most humans do). So far it's an uphill battle, but you've made some concessions. We'll get there eventually.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Twitter and Facebook!

If we are not speculating then we must assume

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Re: Which space missions do you consider to be legitimate?
« Reply #49 on: August 09, 2015, 06:56:16 PM »
I guarantee you will not move any when you push the ball outwards.

Trolling now?

I said throw the bowling ball away from you as you sit on your chair (or skateboard or ice skates), not push it out to arms length.

All that needs to be done to disprove your assertion is to use both the bowling ball and the same size styrofoam ball in the experiment. If the movement is due to pushing against the air then the amount of movement you experience in the other direction should be the same in both cases. No need for a vacuum chamber to discredit this idea.

Any time you create a force in one direction you create a force in the opposite direction. That only works in an atmosphere or some kind of medium that has resistance. Of course a vacuum is necessary. Have you seen an astronaut floating around in space by waving his arms in a certain direction? they can't, they show them using those little jet packs to move around. This is because there is no medium or resistance to push against.

Again, tell me one thing on Earth that can move without some kind of resistance or something to push against. Think of a row boat setting on the water and trying to row the boat without the oars in the water. How far do you think you can get? If you don't know, ask and I will tell you.

Re: Which space missions do you consider to be legitimate?
« Reply #50 on: August 09, 2015, 06:59:47 PM »
It's quite alright. I don't really care what you think of me.  :-*
That's fine. I'm just trying to have you understand the difference between thinking something baselessly (what you do) and making an observation (what most humans do). So far it's an uphill battle, but you've made some concessions. We'll get there eventually.

Yeah sure SW. I may get there when dementia sets in. ;)

Just a few comments and questions about the Zetetic "masterpiece."

First up, is this just historical or is this considered current FE fare?


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Let the practice of theorising be abandoned as one oppressive to the reasoning powers.

After which various experiments are presented to establish the "theory" that the earth is flat.


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How, then, when the waters are drawn up by the moon from their bed, and away from the earth's attraction,--which at that greater distance from the centre is considerably diminished, while that of the moon is proportionately increased--is it possible that all the waters acted on should be prevented leaving the earth and flying away to the moon?

It's called superposition. It's why well founded theories work and zetetic "thinking" fails.


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However great such operations may seem to the mind of present man, all the vast structure of the physical world, and its innumerable myriads of organic beings, were the work of only a few hours. It is easily demonstrable that so rapid and intense were the processes and chemical changes, that a few days--such as we now understand by the word--were ample time to bring out of invisible, imponderable chaos, all the tangible and varied elements which now exist, and to develope every possible form of beauty and elegance, and every condition of happiness and wisdom. All opinions to the contrary which are held by philosophers of the present day, are the result of insufficient perception of the whole subject, which insufficient perception is again the result of self-imposed hypotheses, which bias the judgment and confuse the understanding. No man, however learned and accomplished he may be, is able to understand the simple processes of creative effort unless he is himself a simple and humble observer of phenomena, free from the prejudices of education,...

There goes the claim that FE is not religious right down the drain. More anti-education, anti-knowledge, anti-science rant. Must stay away from hypotheses because they leave no room for the pixies.


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FIRST. The earth floats on the waters of the "great deep."

That it thus floats is concluded from the fact that it is surrounded with water, in which it fluctuates; and that if limited in extent, water could not surround it without also gathering underneath it. If not limited in extent, then it extends downwards for ever. If so, it could not fluctuate in a limited mass of water. It does fluctuate, therefore it floats, and hence there must be "waters under the earth."

Okee dokee. Thinking zetetically, why don't we feel these bobbings up and down?

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SECONDLY. What supports the waters?

If the waters are limited in extent there must be some-thing below them; if not limited in extent then they extend downwards for ever. Then indeed would the "great deep" be the "mighty deep," the "fathomless deep" the "great abyss of waters," the "illimitable depths;" and further inquiry would be useless, for the earth simply floats on the surface of the illimitable fathomless deep. It is in fact and literally

"Founded on the seas, and
Established on the floods."

More religious supposition?

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IT has often been urged that the earth must be a globe, because the stars in the southern "hemisphere" move round a south polar star; in the same way that those of the north revolve round "Polaris," or the northern pole star. This is another instance of the sacrifice of truth, and denial of the evidence of our senses for the purpose of supporting a theory which is in every sense false and unnatural.

Unnatural??

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Here, however, we are met with the positive assertion that there is a very small star (of about the sixth magnitude) in the south, called Sigma Octantis, round which all the constellations of the south revolve, and which is therefore the southern polar star. It is scarcely polite to contradict the statements made, but it is certain that persons who have been educated to believe that the earth is a globe, going to the southern parts of the earth do not examine such matters critically.

Yes, let us examine the matter "critically." /sarcasm

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To remove every possible doubt respecting the motions of the stars from the central north to the most extreme south, a number of special observers, each completely free from the bias of education

Of course, can't be expected to buy into any of this if you are educated.

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IF the earth is a revolving globe, moving rapidly in an orbit round the sun, with its axes of revolution inclined to the plane of the ecliptic, as the Newtonian hypothesis affirms, there may be six months' continued light alternating with six months' continued darkness, at both the northern and southern axial or central points. That such is the case in the northern centre is matter of certainty, but that it is so in the south there is no positive evidence.

Nowadays there is. So FEers what's your excuse?

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MOON TRANSPARENT.

Wow. This wouldn't even make a good scifi movie. It'd be about as popular as Zu Warriors.

Re: Which space missions do you consider to be legitimate?
« Reply #51 on: August 09, 2015, 07:06:19 PM »
I guarantee you will not move any when you push the ball outwards.

Trolling now?

I said throw the bowling ball away from you as you sit on your chair (or skateboard or ice skates), not push it out to arms length.

All that needs to be done to disprove your assertion is to use both the bowling ball and the same size styrofoam ball in the experiment. If the movement is due to pushing against the air then the amount of movement you experience in the other direction should be the same in both cases. No need for a vacuum chamber to discredit this idea.

Any time you create a force in one direction you create a force in the opposite direction. That only works in an atmosphere or some kind of medium that has resistance. Of course a vacuum is necessary. Have you seen an astronaut floating around in space by waving his arms in a certain direction? they can't, they show them using those little jet packs to move around. This is because there is no medium or resistance to push against.

Again, tell me one thing on Earth that can move without some kind of resistance or something to push against. Think of a row boat setting on the water and trying to row the boat without the oars in the water. How far do you think you can get? If you don't know, ask and I will tell you.



Just sit in your chair and throw the bowling ball umkaaay? Then sit in the chair and throw the same size styrofoam ball umkaaay? Both push equally against the air. Why does the bowling ball cause more motion for you in your chair than the styrofoam ball?

Re: Which space missions do you consider to be legitimate?
« Reply #52 on: August 09, 2015, 08:19:56 PM »
Again, tell me one thing on Earth that can move without some kind of resistance or something to push against.

I'm in a pedantic mood, lol.
http://www.discovery.com/tv-shows/mythbusters/videos/its-rocket-science/

I suppose now that "Myth Busters" will be added to the global conspiracy.  ::)

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Re: Which space missions do you consider to be legitimate?
« Reply #53 on: August 09, 2015, 08:38:25 PM »
I guarantee you will not move any when you push the ball outwards.

Trolling now?

I said throw the bowling ball away from you as you sit on your chair (or skateboard or ice skates), not push it out to arms length.

All that needs to be done to disprove your assertion is to use both the bowling ball and the same size styrofoam ball in the experiment. If the movement is due to pushing against the air then the amount of movement you experience in the other direction should be the same in both cases. No need for a vacuum chamber to discredit this idea.

Any time you create a force in one direction you create a force in the opposite direction. That only works in an atmosphere or some kind of medium that has resistance. Of course a vacuum is necessary. Have you seen an astronaut floating around in space by waving his arms in a certain direction? they can't, they show them using those little jet packs to move around. This is because there is no medium or resistance to push against.

Again, tell me one thing on Earth that can move without some kind of resistance or something to push against. Think of a row boat setting on the water and trying to row the boat without the oars in the water. How far do you think you can get? If you don't know, ask and I will tell you.



Just sit in your chair and throw the bowling ball umkaaay? Then sit in the chair and throw the same size styrofoam ball umkaaay? Both push equally against the air. Why does the bowling ball cause more motion for you in your chair than the styrofoam ball?

Because it takes more force to push out the bowling ball because of higher resistance do to the extra weight of the bowling ball. If you could push out both balls with equal force and equal resistance, you would move the same distance. In a vacuum there would be no force because there would be no resistance so you wouldn't move.

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Re: Which space missions do you consider to be legitimate?
« Reply #54 on: August 09, 2015, 08:47:11 PM »
Again, tell me one thing on Earth that can move without some kind of resistance or something to push against.

I'm in a pedantic mood, lol.
http://www.discovery.com/tv-shows/mythbusters/videos/its-rocket-science/

I suppose now that "Myth Busters" will be added to the global conspiracy.  ::)


Come on now. Myth Busters is a TV show. You surely don't believe everything you see on TV. Do you think they are going to say anything against what the producers tell them to say or the scientist and engineers?

 

Re: Which space missions do you consider to be legitimate?
« Reply #55 on: August 09, 2015, 11:08:55 PM »
Because it takes more force to push out the bowling ball because of higher resistance do to the extra weight of the bowling ball.

Bingo! Inertia. So you are agreeing with me. You just don't realize it. The air resistance is almost a negligible consideration at the speed you can thrust a bowling ball but acts against your ability to move the bowling ball quickly making it harder to impart more momentum to the ball. So you move less the greater the air pressure and you move more the lower the air pressure though that contribution is small. Rocket motors have greater thrust in a vacuum.

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Come on now. Myth Busters is a TV show. You surely don't believe everything you see on TV. Do you think they are going to say anything against what the producers tell them to say or the scientist and engineers?

So I'm right? Myth Busters is part of the conspiracy along with the producers the engineers and the scientists. Got it. I also suspect I am right that you are just a troll.

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Re: Which space missions do you consider to be legitimate?
« Reply #56 on: August 09, 2015, 11:25:44 PM »
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Sigh!,   so I'll bite,  let's just do an easy one for now,  what exactly  do you think is bogus about electromagnetic theory?

please do yr own research, eh?
http://www.prahlad.org/pub/bearden/ ;
http://www.prahlad.org/pub/bearden/scalar_wars.htm ;

get hold of Bearden's books;
read them!

get hold of books on Nikola Tesla;
read them!

thank-you!   ::)


Just as I thought,  you've got nothing.  Maybe you should link to a few free energy sites, or perpetual motion machine designs.  You want to try quoting some Nikola Tesla for me,  I've read all his stuff many times?   

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Offline Rayzor

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Re: Which space missions do you consider to be legitimate?
« Reply #57 on: August 09, 2015, 11:36:35 PM »
Come on now. Myth Busters is a TV show. You surely don't believe everything you see on TV. Do you think they are going to say anything against what the producers tell them to say or the scientist and engineers?

Conservation of Momentum,  rockets work just fine in space.    Exhaust velocity times exhaust mass = rocket velocity time mass.   Because the mass varies during the burn, you need to use the Tsiolovsky ideal rocket equation.



In any event this topic was beated to death on the other forum.    Why debate it again,  unless you are just continuing your trolling ways. 

By the way,  how did those plastic antenna's and filters work out?  ROTFLMAO!

ewigkeit

Re: Which space missions do you consider to be legitimate?
« Reply #58 on: August 10, 2015, 12:11:34 AM »
Flat earthers - ignore this guy who claim arguments with mathematics - mathematics don't work in reality it is a big lie that has nothing to add to our life,
mathematics are hoax, and don't work in reality, nothing in mathematics works in reality and no matter what this liar will bring, would change it.
mathematics is a false and hoax.

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Re: Which space missions do you consider to be legitimate?
« Reply #59 on: August 10, 2015, 12:44:42 AM »
Flat earthers - ignore this guy who claim arguments with mathematics - mathematics don't work in reality it is a big lie that has nothing to add to our life,
mathematics are hoax, and don't work in reality, nothing in mathematics works in reality and no matter what this liar will bring, would change it.
mathematics is a false and hoax.

Pretty obvious trolling attempt.   Trolls are tasty treats sometimes.. 

Our civilization is built on mathematics,  you are welcome to stop using your computer and the internet any time you like seeing it adds nothing to your life. 
Do you eat?   Maybe you live in a tree and hunt your own food,   have you discovered fire yet,   you surely can't use electricity,  that involves mathematics too.   

BTW.   Flat Earthers will ignore me anyway,  logic and thought processes involving more than one or two braincells is above their capability.