461

Flat Earth Community / Re: Can Globe believers prove Earth has curvature by their own Curvature Charts?

« on: November 10, 2018, 01:00:17 AM »

All you would need would be to spend about $100,000 for a couple of Theodolites. Then you could make a complete geodetic survey of Australia.  Of course you would have to understand the theory of the equipment and how it makes the measurements of the actual curvature of the earth.  You could also look up the survey data on line that the government does publish.  Since you probably don't trust the government you would be better to do your own research on the project so you would be completely satisfied with the result.  Probably there are topographic maps also available for a price if you are so inclined.  As for me, I'm totally satisfied to make the rough calculations and know that they are correct.   

462

Flat Earth Community / Re: Post Your Favorite NASA ISS Fails

« on: November 09, 2018, 10:19:12 PM »

Since there are already others commenting on the video, I will also take the liberties to do so, even though it should actually be done elsewhere.  This video actually is represented as 'fake', but just go to 9:21 on the video and you will see what the 'real' story is.  It looks to me like the original video was of a NASA rehearsal in a pool.  You can see the divers messing with something in the background for a couple of seconds, and then a little later for a couple of seconds more.  Then the background is altered and the divers are blocked out.  Do you really think that NASA was doing the alterations of the video and trying to pass it off as a procedure done in space?  You really think that they are that incompetent?  Any video can be altered by anyone to suit their agenda and then use it as evidence to support their point.  There is no real point in posting any videos under these circumstances. 

463

Flat Earth Community / Re: Can Globe believers prove Earth has curvature by their own Curvature Charts?

« on: November 09, 2018, 10:00:35 PM »

To test what vertical actually is, consider a thought experiment.  You all know about the leaning tower of Pisa in Italy.  Location is at 43-43-23N and 10-23-43E.   Assume that it leans by 4 degrees to the South (180 degrees).  Now assume that you could hire an alien contractor who had an anti-gravity machine that could pick the leaning tower up an move it.  During the moving process the tower would remain pointing in an absolute fixed direction in space.  Could the tower be moved to another location that would be perfectly vertical on the earth?   

464

Flat Earth Community / Re: Question for research paper: What convinced you that the earth is flat?

« on: November 09, 2018, 04:44:36 PM »

There are a lot of mis-information on here.  The quote "water seeks it's own level" should be corrected to "Water seeks the center of gravity" just like every other thing with mass in the known universe.  Seamen know that the earth is a globe.  All their navigational education, charts, and procedures are based upon the earth being a globe.  It's been that way for over 100 years.  When I go to sea and depend on the global navigation techniques to get me across the oceans, my getting to the next port without getting lost is actual, practical proof that the globe earth system works.  Now that I'm home and didn't get killed by King Neptune, I believe that I'm living proof that the earth is a globe.

465

Flat Earth Community / Re: Can Globe believers prove Earth has curvature by their own Curvature Charts?

« on: November 09, 2018, 12:51:02 PM »

Yes, the diagram is essentially what my 'back of the envelope' calculations shows.  The math seems to be correct.

466

Flat Earth Community / Re: Can Globe believers prove Earth has curvature by their own Curvature Charts?

« on: November 09, 2018, 01:39:44 AM »

I went from Coral Bay 23-08-34S / 113-46-05E to the Point Cartwright Light house near Buddina 26-40-46S / 153-08-18E.  The total great circle distance was about 2470 miles with the midpoint at about 26-15-16S / 133-09-33E.  The starting and ending points are near sea level, give or take what the tides might be.  All three points (start, end, center) are all relatively close to the same distance from the earths center at 3959 miles away, give or take the topography of the land near the center.  If you draw a straight line thru the earths diameter circle between the starting point and ending point it will be at about 191 miles below the center position.  To do it another way, if you constructed towers at the starting and ending points and drew a straight line between the towers (each 194 miles high) the line would just graze the surface of the earth near the center point.  The towers had to be just a bit taller because they would have to be at an angle of a little less than 18 degrees relative to the vertical at the center.  However both towers would be perfectly vertical and pointing toward the earths center at each end. All the calculations are classified, believe them if you dare.

467

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: More on "13 Miles: 60 ft NOT Hidden".

« on: November 09, 2018, 12:56:45 AM »

This view is pretty typical of a container ship starting to disappear below the curvature of the earth.  After going to sea for 20 years on ships, this was a typical sight that I saw all the time.  We had a big telescope mounted to the deck (it was that big) that could zoom in and see a hemorrhoid on a gnat's ass bending over, and you still wouldn't be able to see the hull disappearing over the horizon.  For the flat earth folks reading this; Rowbotham was a landlubber and didn't understand what happens to ships when they go over the horizon.  Please wise up and start reading about Nathaniel Bowditch and he will school you about what really happens on the globe earth.  I never got lost going to sea by using Bowditch's works so you know it isn't a bunch of BS.   

468

Flat Earth Community / Re: Can Globe believers prove Earth has curvature by their own Curvature Charts?

« on: November 08, 2018, 08:53:34 PM »

The biggest problem with doing anything with a globe earth is that you are essentially working in 3 dimensions.  Any flat earth calculations are easy because it's all on a flat plane.  Spherical calculations require more math.  I was bit by that fact years ago when I started learning celestial navigation.  At that time I didn't have anything on spherical trigonometry but was able to borrow a math text book that had a section on that subject.  It takes a while for everything to make some sense.  I don't blame the flat earth advocates.  Their ideas make things easier.  Unfortunately, if we tried doing basic trigonometry while working out navigation problems at sea King Neptune would have gotten us a long time ago.  Any flat earth advocates want to meet the King?   

469

Flat Earth Theory / Re: The Horizon is Always at Eye Level

« on: November 08, 2018, 08:35:46 PM »

I am surprised you guys haven't looked at the publications 'The American Practical Navigator' or the 'Nautical Almanac'.  These publications contain a wealth of information regarding what kind of effects the atmosphere has on the measurements of heavenly bodies.  The theory of the sextant would be most interesting as well.  Yes, height of eye and atmospheric refraction are important considerations in these measurements.  You can even buy a sextant for a reasonable price.  I used to have a plastic Davis sextant that was really quite accurate.  My only problem with it was when I was 'shooting the sun'.  Even a small amount of warping due to the sunlight on a hot day would alter the measurements a little when you are trying to measure angles to the second. I never had any accuracy problems when measuring the moon, stars, or planets at night.  If you are land locked, you can even use a pool of water to get your sights.  I can personally attest that it works, but takes some practice.  In WWII the bomber crews used a bubble sextant for their long distance navigation across the Pacific to bomb Japan.  I often have supper with a pilot who did just that.  He said he never got lost, but came close a couple of times and survived the war.  Of course the flat earth community probably doesn't believe much in that kind of technology because it assumes that the earth is a rotating sphere in orbit around the sun.  On the other hand, it is quite difficult to argue with something that works if properly used.  If it didn't then mariners would have been getting lost for 100's of years.  That hasn't been happening so it's safe to assume that their idea of the earth has some validity.

470

Flat Earth Community / Re: Can Globe believers prove Earth has curvature by their own Curvature Charts?

« on: November 08, 2018, 03:43:40 AM »

You have about 35 degrees of the globe, that means that you would need a tower of about 190-191 miles at each side of Australia to have a clear line of sight between the towers (assuming no buildings or mountains near the center of curvature) .  The horizon would be about 17 to 18 degrees below level. The tops of the towers would be about 2868 miles away from each other  All my calculations are classified (RE) calculations, access limited.

471

Flat Earth Community / Re: Who is at the top of the Conspiracy?

« on: November 08, 2018, 01:14:01 AM »

The dome above us is just the bottom of the flat earth above us.  Our bottom is just the top of the dome of the earth below us.  All the NASA flights are just commuter runs between the other earths stacked above and below us.  All the earths are just a giant apartment like complex sitting in space.  Maybe someday the aliens will just come in and cull the herd.  Take a look at The Twilight Zone episode 'To Serve Man'.  It's on the net. NASA is just working for the aliens and it's some alien race who is at the top of the Conspiracy!

472

Flat Earth Community / Re: Can Globe believers prove Earth has curvature by their own Curvature Charts?

« on: November 08, 2018, 12:57:40 AM »

Yes, when I go to sea all our charts are based upon the earth being a globe.  We can travel halfway around the earth with no street signs or direction posts anywhere and arrive at our destination each and every time.  When I'm on land then I use flat earth charts.  I don't get lost there either, but I can usually follow road and street signs.

473

Flat Earth Theory / Re: The Horizon is Always at Eye Level

« on: November 07, 2018, 05:08:02 AM »

I saw a small misquote:  "water always flows downhill".  The correct quote should be:  "water flows toward the center of gravity". 

474

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Math Evidence (calcs and data) corroborating turning torso and radius 6371km

« on: November 07, 2018, 03:11:08 AM »

The answers to a lot of questions about the global earth can be found in the the publication called "The American Practical Navigator".  It's available on line for free.  Most of the theory of the global earth can be found there, but you will have to be prepared to spend some time reading and understanding the theory and information contained in this publication.  This publication can be found on any American Flagged ship as it is required to be on board at all times.  You really can't argue too much with the contents as a ship conducts an 'experiment' each time it leaves the dock and sails from point A to point B.  The part that says 'Practical' means exactly what it says. You take the theory and information found in this publication and it just plain works.  Is everything down to a gnat's ass?  No.  King Neptune is a harsh task master and will kill you if you don't pay attention and know what to do when things get ugly.  The American Practical Navigator is required reading for any watch officer because the safety of the ship and crew depends on the theory and practice of the information in this publication.  Why would it be interesting to people on this site?  Because the theory of the global earth is explained fairly well and there is no BS.  Is the theory and information verifiable in theory and practice?  Yes, ships come and go daily and navigate using the theories and practice contained in this publication.  It wasn't unusual for me to have the pages open and on my desk often while at sea.  How can you really dispute anything that works in theory and practice?

475

Flat Earth Projects / Re: Wiki - Moon

« on: November 06, 2018, 04:32:00 PM »

I see you had no problem finding an amateur radio operator that said he couldn't communicate via the moon because he deemed it to be impossible.  Maybe you actually accepted the veracity of that YouTube video.  My core question remains; what kind of experiments would you find acceptable for measuring the distance to the moon?  Any measurements made would obviously depend on a fixed location on the earth and the current position of the moon in it's orbit.  The zenith points of the moon based upon the global earth paradigm are well known and used by nautical navigators all the time.  I am assuming that you deem all those figures as fake.  Is there any tables of the moon's position that you would certify as valid?  Unless there is a agreed upon moon's zenith position at a known time any distance measurement made could automatically be disputed.  All I'm trying to do is define all the possible variables in advance to mitigate misunderstandings.  If this data doesn't exist and you can't agree upon anything please let me know and I will understand.           

476

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Meteorites and the dome

« on: November 05, 2018, 08:02:53 PM »

When I was a lot younger I actually saw a meteorite, or maybe a piece of the dome, fly across the sky and hit the earth very close to where I was standing.  The meteorite hit the ground close enough to me that I actually saw it hit and bounce back up into the air a short distance.  We all ran over and saw what looked like a large, red hot, rock about 12 inches in diameter.  If it was a part of the dome it didn't look very transparent to me at the time.  But again, that was a long time ago and my memory could have become 'clouded' as well.

477

Flat Earth Projects / Re: Wiki - Moon

« on: November 05, 2018, 07:56:09 PM »

The flat earth wiki states that the moon is about 3000 miles above the surface of the earth.  The diagram on the wiki seems to indicate that the center of the moon's orbit is the North Pole.  I can't find any 'official' radius of orbit.  A rough estimate could be made from the diagram, but there doesn't seem to be any kind of scale on the 'map'.  My rough estimate would be about half the radius of the flat earth.  The 'official' figure (from the flat earth web site) I get for the radius is 12,250 miles.  No figure on the speed of light could be found.  All my research is based solely on what I could find on the flat earth wiki.  I am assuming that the flat earth consensus supports what data I could glean from the wiki and the website in general.  That's my starting point.   Would the Zetetic methods support any kind of electronic measurements other than using pictures that can be altered to bias the results?  What kind of authentication methods could be employed so everyone could agree on the results of these measurements? 

478

Flat Earth Projects / Re: Wiki - Moon

« on: November 05, 2018, 06:39:38 PM »

Is there any agreement that the distance from the earth to moon can be measured electronically with a reasonable amount of accuracy?  Do the FET proponents believe that this technology is fake, or can the distance to the moon really, really be measured in a couple of different ways?  Leave aside the issue of whether the moon is spherical.  Let the issue of distance alone be the question Du Jour. Of course the next question would be what would be an acceptable authority for that measurement?  What kind of equipment would be acceptable?  Is the standard speed of light an agreed upon figure?  Of course maybe all these questions can't really be answered in a reasonable way because everyone can have a different response so any proposed answer will be highly disputed and deemed to be fake or fabricated.  Maybe it's all about the controversy rather than the 'facts'.   

479

Flat Earth Community / Re: Now days, it is VERY rational to believe Earth is not a Ball

« on: November 05, 2018, 04:05:40 PM »

Using pictures to show a globe earth are very difficult because the effects are on the edge of perception.  You have to do accurate calculations and apply them correctly and even then the desired effects will usually be less than the other variables that you can't control.  Do a simple thought experiment.  Take an average sized swimming pool.  As accurately as you can measure it's depth.  Now pour in a glass of water.  You know absolutely for sure that the depth of that pool has just increased, but do you expect to be able to measure it?  It is rational for a landlubber to believe that the earth is flat.  Experiencing the effects of the globe are usually just indirectly felt and even the direct effects can usually be difficult to rationalize and could be interpreted to mean you are really on a flat earth because that is your core belief.  If you take a course in celestial navigation and then actually use that knowledge to correctly get from point A to point B at sea your belief system can slowly be altered.  Today the art of celestial navigation is in decline because GPS navigation is so good, accurate, and easy to use.  The sun, moon, planets, and stars along with an accurate clock can be used to accurately determine your position on the earth, as long as your base assumption is that the earth is a globe.  These assertions can still be demonstrated today.  The bottom line is that for a landlubber to believe in a flat earth is totally rational.  For a seaman, the global earth is essential. 

480

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Re: Help Me debunk this stupid video

« on: November 04, 2018, 04:55:54 AM »

No reason the debunk any of these videos.  After all, on this very site, in the FAQ section,  there is a statement that pictures and videos can't really be trusted.  That goes both ways.  Any video for or against the FET or RET models could be a fraud.  Could there be some kind of validation standard for all videos that is acceptable to both sides?  Maybe some videos are made in studios and are intentionally made to look like they are faked as a diversionary tactic for some unknown reason while the real ones are unreleased.  After all NASA has a huge budget and they know that they may have enemies.