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Offline Orbisect-64

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If they wanna say the earth is a ball...
« on: September 06, 2015, 11:28:45 PM »
edit - so long and thanks for all the fish
« Last Edit: April 23, 2016, 06:23:52 PM by Orbisect-64 »
PRONOIA: “The delusional belief that the world is set up to benefit people … The confident and assumed trust that despite years of lies and oppression, government is secretly conspiring in your favor.”

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Offline Rayzor

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Re: If they wanna say the earth is a ball...
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2015, 08:09:15 AM »
That link is broken,   it just says pixabay does not allow hotlinking.

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Re: If they wanna say the earth is a ball...
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2015, 04:13:40 PM »
I do not understand why you would think the suns reflection on a spherical shape would give us it's distance.
I have no doubt that the location of that reflection will change throughout the day.

"If you move, that spot does not move with your view - the spot remains on that one spot directly under the sun."

To test this I took a bowl outside and found that you are incorrect. the apparent location of the spot changes per ones viewpoint.

I think that you just make up stuff instead of discovering for yourself.

I pasted the link directly and saw that it is a shot of Earth from space with a bright spot and the sun behind and above.
I suppose it would tell us something about the angle of the sun in relation to the viewer and the object being reflected against but nothing about its distance.

You seem to have problems with the concept "above"
The sun is not above the earth. The earth orbits around it and a different half area is illuminated depending on its rotation. Depending on where one is standing on Earth the sun could be above, below or somewhere to some side.

« Last Edit: September 07, 2015, 04:58:04 PM by huh? »

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Re: If they wanna say the earth is a ball...
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2015, 10:10:46 PM »
"We stand on one spot, and that's all—no discussion. Even the defunct theory of relativity dictates that we take up only a small footprint in space."

I do not understand how this makes any since.

Sure the astronaut could have been on the other side of the earth opposite the sun and not have seen the sun spot -just the same as I can change my point of view from the beach ball and not see the sun spot.

The fact is that you can take a beach ball and line it up like the NASA picture and get an approximate matching image of the spot the sun and the ball

"By the same principles, the sun's highlight would only be viewable along the equator, and you would never see it anywhere else on the entire planet - period!"

No.
If you observe the beach ball you will find that you can see that spot all around the ball depending on what side or angle you are looking from. All you need is to keep the same angular relation between the observer the ball and the source. Right, left, top, bottom, or any point around the ball 


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Re: If they wanna say the earth is a ball...
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2015, 10:51:53 PM »
The spot does however make it clear that the Earth is round -A flat surface would have produced a much more elongated spot which depends on the height of the observer from the surface.

If the camera had been raised and a filter had been used so that the sun could be included the picture of the chrome dome would have matched the NASA picture fairly well.

Here are a lot more pics of that Geodome
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=la-geode&qpvt=la-geode&qpvt=la-geode&FORM=IGRE

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Re: If they wanna say the earth is a ball...
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2015, 11:55:41 PM »
"The sun's "highlight" spot comes from the same general direction as the sun itself. This is why you can not find a photo of the Geode Theatre that shows both the sun, and the highlight, because they're both in the same direction"

The reason you do not find a picture of the sun included is because it would white out the image because most people do not carry around the filters required.

"Being that the sun's highlight is by the laws of perspective and sphere anatomy above the spot in the photo of earth I provided, this dictates that the sun is overhead... "

Again simply getting a large ball and doing the experiment you would be able to reproduce the NASA photo -this is not worth arguing about. You could learn the exact angles involved. I do think the bigger the ball the easier it is to reproduce the image though.

"a) Sun highlights on a sphere are the sun's direct reflection."

No need to take my word for it -I tried both a bowl and a flat surface -and you would find the same thing if you looked.

I do not know what a picture of sunlight on water has to do with it.



" And yet again, as I explained a few posts up, the laws of spherical reflection dictate that 1) the sun being directly above the highlight would not permit the "space" shuttle to get both the sun and earth in the shot without the shuttle being at least 93 million miles up, and close to the sun; b) that the sun's highlight on the earth would only be viewable on the equator, which means the rest of the world would never see the sun's direct highlight—and the highlight would appear over the horizon on a curved surface."

but yet I can get pictures of the sun and reflection on the water at the same time while I am standing right hear on Earth -but the Shuttle needs to be 93 million miles away?

« Last Edit: September 08, 2015, 12:08:36 AM by huh? »

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Re: If they wanna say the earth is a ball...
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2015, 12:15:37 AM »
Yes I suppose some things are just so crazy that they are not worth correcting.

In the case of the Earth though I think many believe it is worth the effort to try and educate people.

Again there is no need for us to argue this point when it can be demonstrated with a large ball

- I would be happy to provide a photo but suspect that you would simple call me a shill or whatever so I encourage you to perform the experiment yourself.

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Re: If they wanna say the earth is a ball...
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2015, 01:10:43 AM »
Yes the flat Earth theory can be attributed somewhat to just really poor education -but the hollow Earth is just plain crazy.

It just occurred to me that it would probably be easier to set up the experiment with a cookie sheet or some other warp-able surface so that you could simulate the actual curve of the Earth (at least on one axis) a bit closer -that way you are not out any money on a ball
« Last Edit: September 08, 2015, 01:30:44 AM by huh? »

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Re: If they wanna say the earth is a ball...
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2015, 12:56:54 PM »
I do not understand why you insist that the Equator has anything to do with this. The Equator is perpendicular to the sun but you would see the spot from any point on Earth where you are looking at the sun low in the sky and reflecting off of something below your view





These two pictures show essentially the same thing except the one of the water the photographer is standing very close to the surface but the astronaut is fairly high above the atmosphere.

While we can agree that God did a good job creating Earth if you would simply take a curved surface outside and observe it in the sun you would discover that you can reproduce this pic

Re: If they wanna say the earth is a ball...
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2015, 03:35:16 PM »
For those who like knowing truth and seeing proof, just research sphere reflections and highlights. There are a plethora of articles on the subject. Highlights on a sphere go according to set laws that can not be broken... except for, incidentally and conveniently, in the ball earth model.
I wish to add that folks should learn up about Poisson's Spot as well. 
Quote
Poisson reasoned that if light really was a wave, then when a light was turned on a perfectly spherical object, the light waves would bend around the sides of that object. The perfect symmetry of a sphere meant that all the light waves would meet in the exact center of the shadow behind it. There, people would be able to see a bright spot of light.
watch?v=xhcVJcINzn8

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Re: If they wanna say the earth is a ball...
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2015, 03:43:26 PM »
Here is the rest of the story:

Poisson reasoned that if light really was a wave, then when a light was turned on a perfectly spherical object, the light waves would bend around the sides of that object. The perfect symmetry of a sphere meant that all the light waves would meet in the exact center of the shadow behind it. There, people would be able to see a bright spot of light.

Clearly, this was preposterous. After everyone finished laughing, they went off to wench, or drink, or whatever famous and successful French scientists did in those days. At least one person didn't join them. Dominique Arago, one of the judges, realized that Poisson had described the perfect experiment. He found a round object, he found a light, and pretty soon, he found a spot. It was right were Poisson said it would be.

There was nothing left to do but award the prize to Fresnel. Poisson had put forward a consequence of light as a wave that was so ridiculous, so unlikely, that it couldn't be explained by anything else. Fresnel was smart enough to come up with the theory. Poisson was smart enough to have proved Fresnel right, and proved himself wrong. Even though Dominique Arago had actually done the test, the tiny dot of light at the center of the shadow of a spherical object has ever after been called Poisson's Spot. There is no perpetual motion in physics, but there is perpetual taunting

geckothegeek

Re: If they wanna say the earth is a ball...
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2015, 05:13:52 PM »
As usual I have seen a lot of flat earth posts that don't seem to make any sense.

I have taken a lot of pictures and a lot of them have spots of light on a car's windshield like the one shown on the sphere in the picture. This is no indication that the sun is a so-called spotlight or any indication of the size or distance to the sun.  They are just reflections.

Re: If they wanna say the earth is a ball...
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2015, 05:50:44 PM »
As usual I have seen a lot of shills who seem to think they are genuinely part of the conversation. 

I have taken a lot of pictures and ...... 
.... look where THAT got you.  You are stuck here trying to convince flat-earthers that we live on a great big blue marble. 

Keep up the good work!!!  Keep taking more pictures!!!  The world needs more photographers-like-you to do God's online work!!   Bravo!!
watch?v=xhcVJcINzn8

geckothegeek

Re: If they wanna say the earth is a ball...
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2015, 05:56:27 PM »
If you wish to believe whatever you want to believe, you are entitled to your beliefs.
There was an old TV Show called "Mission Impossible." I think that applies to trying to convince a flat earther that the earth is not a flat disc and is really a globe. LOL

But some of us know how things really work and put them to work every day . Like computers and the Internet for instance which makes this website possible. Of course we are all liars and shills any way. Electrons, radio waves, laser beams and a  lot of other things don't really exist. They are all fakes. We just make up stories about them to confuse the flat earthers. We are paid good wages by the government to do this.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2015, 06:06:29 PM by geckothegeek »

Re: If they wanna say the earth is a ball...
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2015, 06:14:26 PM »
Of course we are all liars and shills any way.
Of course but you serve your purpose. 

Keep up the good work!!!   The more you write, the more you reveal!!!
watch?v=xhcVJcINzn8

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Re: If they wanna say the earth is a ball...
« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2015, 06:32:12 PM »
I am personally not here to convince flat Earth believers -my goal is to separate science from mysticism.

geckothegeek

Re: If they wanna say the earth is a ball...
« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2015, 11:59:39 PM »
I am personally not here to convince flat Earth believers -my goal is to separate science from mysticism.

Likewise. I just like to post "round earth" facts and figures to see what kind of a response it will get from the "flat earthers."

And I do  have several other interests. I just like to come to this website for the entertainment it offers and relax and have fun after doing some serious work on other hobbies and projects.

I have a theory....Well, it's not really a theory... It's just an idea or an "IMHO"...:
There are really no flat earthers on this website. The so-called flat earthers who are the most vocal are really intelligent people whose hobby is making up ideas that are just opposite from the real facts just for the sake of seeing what the debate would be.. Of course I could be wrong. There may be some people who really believe the earth is flat. But that does cause one to have a bit of a stretch of imagination to believe. LOL
« Last Edit: September 09, 2015, 12:03:11 AM by geckothegeek »

geckothegeek

Re: If they wanna say the earth is a ball...
« Reply #17 on: September 09, 2015, 01:11:21 AM »
Of course we are all liars and shills any way.
Of course but you serve your purpose. 

Keep up the good work!!!   The more you write, the more you reveal!!!

And of course if you believe that each and every round earther is a shilll and/or a liar then you must also believe that we are well paid by all the governments in all the world. You must believe that we are very wealthy.

I hope the more I write the more I will reveal to flat earthers about facts, figures and evidence that the earth is a globe. It is really an easy to post them, but I doubt if it even does any good as far as flat earthers are concerned. There are lots of others who go into more serious subjects than my simple ones, so I am continually learning  a lot of things on this forum in the process . Thanks to the FES.

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Offline Orbisect-64

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Re: If they wanna say the earth is a ball...
« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2015, 01:37:41 AM »
I have a few problems with Poissons's proposed experiment, according to the article cited above.

http://io9.com/5707749/poissons-spot--the-greatest-burn-in-physics

"Poisson reasoned that if light really was a wave, then when a light was turned on a perfectly spherical object, the light waves would bend around the sides of that object. The perfect symmetry of a sphere meant that all the light waves would meet in the exact center of the shadow behind it. There, people would be able to see a BRIGHT spot of light."

So Poisson's proposal was that if light were a wave, there would be a BRIGHT SPOT on the shadow.

"Dominique Arago ... realized that Poisson had described the perfect experiment. He found a round object, he found a light, and pretty soon, he found a spot. It was right were Poisson said it would be."

However, if you look up articles and MIT videos of Poisson's spot, you see that the spot in the shadow is a DARK SPOT, not a bright spot, as Poissons said would be the case if light is a wave.

In my view, Poisson's rivals changed the wording of Poisson's claim from "a light spot," to "a dark spot," and then claimed that Poisson had proven them right.



The second issue I have is that not one single demonstration of 'Poisson's spot' uses a regular light—again, not one single demonstration. The problems with this are: a) lasers were not in existence during the time of Poisson's experiment; b) laser beams are concentrated (very narrow) wavelengths, which physical characteristics are entirely different than that of sunlight and incandescent light (which shines outward in all directions and is not concentrated and directed), which is closer to the light in all natural light sources; c) whenever Poisson's spot is demonstrated a sphere of roughly the same size as the laser beam is used—they never experiment on different ratios of light width to sphere width.

http://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-laser-and-vs-light/

This controlled experiment only proves what happens in a controlled (unnatural) environment when the light is concentrated, narrowed, and directed, and when the sphere is the same size as the width as the light. This does not conclusively lay down laws on how all light operates, because unnatural light is used, and no one ever discusses what happens when a natural light shines on different size spheres.

But mostly, Poisson's claim was that a BRIGHT spot would occur if light is a wave, and his opponents changed his words by proving that a DARK spot occurred.

I call dirty pool on this one, and the experiment needs to be done over with natural light and larger spheres. As with all experiments, a variety of test subjects must be used to make the results conclusive, and in this case the test subjects are: the kind of light (wavelength); the brightness of the light; the width of the light source; the diameter of the sphere; the distance from light source to sphere — all of these must be tested to the full spectrum in order to learn anything — no wonder man still does't fully understand light and shadow — having had our perception muddied with dishonesty just so someone could say "I'm right and you're wrong" — our concepts of light/shadow is based on a few individual people's self-centeredness, self-serving, and self-righteousness attitude.

What the experiment does prove is that light does not cast a bright spot on on the shadow as would occur if light were a wave - and it proves that a shadow is projected onto the surface if the light source is very close to the same size as the sphere—but a shadow is what people expect to see, so nothing new is learned by the experiment, as is.



Just as a side note and comparison, the same strategy of word manipulation and twisting was implemented in the case against Michael Behe's claims of intelligent design. Behe observed that both simple and complex systems could not operate if a piece of its machinery was removed. His opponents changed the wording to argue that pieces could be borrowed from already existing structures. But this did not in any way whatsoever answer the question of what happens to a machine when a piece is removed—in fact it was never discussed what happened to the machine the piece was taken from, if that machine could continue to operate. The case was won by playing dirty pool and twisting Behe's words to mean what he had not said. In addition, the leading scientists against Behe admits in a seminar (posted on YouTube) to his students, that his colleagues were joking with the judge long before the case had been concluded, that they would have to discuss the matter if irreducible complexity again the next day. The scientist recalls to his students how they and the judge all laughed and joked about it. This was not an unbiass judge, this judge was already from the home-team. It was a kangaroo court. But the point in this is that twisting people's words in order to win arguments is not an old trick—and it should not be mistaken as victory, but as fraud and manipulation, and dirty-pool played by people who can not win arguments with honesty and candor.

The real reason the trial was held against Behe was that one of the most infamous atheists and proponents for evolution, Antony Flew, had been won over to intelligent design by Behe's book "Darwin's Black Box." Enemies of God could not allow others to be persuaded by the half-conversion of such a great man, who had such clout and respect. Hence the trials were held in order to "debunk" intelligent design in the minds of would-be believers in a deity. Rather interesting to note here is that Richard Dawkins admitted when talking about Flew that although he feels that Flew was foolish and misled for being won over to creation by I.D., Dawkins followed the statement by stating that Flew would have been justified if he had been won over by the The Cosmological Constant—so by recommendation of Richard Dawkins, you unbelievers should head over and examine The Cosmological Constant. The cosmological constant is such a powerful argument in evidence of a creator that it has led scientists in recent years to conclude that our entire existence is just an illusion, or someone's dream. Again God pushes science into a corner leaving them no room but to conclude and teach that "we don't exist." Rather than admit that God exist, they would rather dismiss all things, including themselves. Well, they'll eventually get their wish by being made not to exist—but they won't change what already does—and their place in the stream of time will be puny and without accounting when they and their philosophies have long gone off into oblivion.



« Last Edit: September 09, 2015, 10:41:50 PM by Orbisect-64 »
PRONOIA: “The delusional belief that the world is set up to benefit people … The confident and assumed trust that despite years of lies and oppression, government is secretly conspiring in your favor.”

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Offline Orbisect-64

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Re: If they wanna say the earth is a ball...
« Reply #19 on: September 09, 2015, 01:51:27 AM »
It should be noted as well that since Poisson's experiments, scientists have found that light behaves both as a wave and a particle. Many articles have been published on this finding since the late 90s. This complicates things greatly, and makes it more difficult to narrow light down to its laws, because though it may (or may not) act like a wave, it can still dissipate, scatter, ricochet, and deflect like particles. Hence Poisson's theories could prove correct in the future, and his name be vindicated and cleared of reproach—and although he may remain partially wrong for arguing against light being a wave, his opponents share equally in being wrong—hence, if one wants to call Poisson a failure, we should say the same of his accusers.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2015, 10:45:54 PM by Orbisect-64 »
PRONOIA: “The delusional belief that the world is set up to benefit people … The confident and assumed trust that despite years of lies and oppression, government is secretly conspiring in your favor.”