[Lord Dave]

Technically it wasn't a joke as Roseanne said.  It was her basically taking drugs to sleep, which caused a lack of inhibitions and abnormal thoughts.  She was likely drinking too.
So basically: she was on drugs and tweeted something.  It wasn't a joke.  It wasn't on a comedy show.  It was a drug induced, but serious, tweet.
Personally, I don't think she should have had her show canceled.  Yes it was bad but she did apologize and when you're on drugs that can give you abnormal thoughts, shit like this happens.
It's like being pissed that someone drunk is acting like an idiot.  They're drunk.  It's normal.

[honk]

>mfw Dave actually bought the ridiculous "uhhhhhh...Ambien made me do it!" excuse

[crutonius]

Technically it wasn't a joke as Roseanne said.  It was her basically taking drugs to sleep, which caused a lack of inhibitions and abnormal thoughts.  She was likely drinking too.
So basically: she was on drugs and tweeted something.  It wasn't a joke.  It wasn't on a comedy show.  It was a drug induced, but serious, tweet.
Personally, I don't think she should have had her show canceled.  Yes it was bad but she did apologize and when you're on drugs that can give you abnormal thoughts, shit like this happens.
It's like being pissed that someone drunk is acting like an idiot.  They're drunk.  It's normal.

There's something to this excuse. But I can tell you from personal experience that ambien doesn't make people act more aggressively or hatefully. It's not like alcohol. It'll make you less inhibited, usually nicer and a lot stranger sometimes. These tweets are all her. All ambien did was remove her filter.

[Lord Dave]

>mfw Dave actually bought the ridiculous "uhhhhhh...Ambien made me do it!" excuse

She isn't on Fox News so why would she suddenly tweet something she knows would hurt her career?

[Pete Svarrior]

Valerie Jarrett has African-American parents and the slur referred to her parentage.

How does one demonstrate this relation?

[Rama Set]

Valerie Jarrett has African-American parents and the slur referred to her parentage.

How does one demonstrate this relation?

By reading history. Ape as a racial epithet is not controversial. 

[Rushy]

Valerie Jarrett has African-American parents and the slur referred to her parentage.

How does one demonstrate this relation?

By reading history. Ape as a racial epithet is not controversial.

Again, why does calling Trump an ape count as insulting Trump only, but calling Jarett (who is also white) an ape automatically carry over to her parents and become a racial slur?

Why is one inherently racist and the other is not? Should I start assuming anyone who insults Trump really just hates white people, or hates people with German ancestry, or hates Jews, just because those people happen to be related to him?

It sounds like your argument requires that we make a lot of assumptions that aren't readily stated and all of the assumptions we make only apply to this incident but not the other way around, which is quite odd.

[Lord Dave]

In fairness, the tweet was literally:
"Muslim brotherhood & planet of the apes had a baby=vj"
Which is pretty much saying her parents were muslim apes.  Or her dad/mom was a mulsim terrorist and her other parent was an ape.
Unless she was making some clever comment about oppression, she was referring to her parantage.

[Roundy]

Why is one ape joke deemed okay, while another is not? They both involve appearance.

Roseanne wasn't fired for mocking someone's appearance, she was fired because her joke was shockingly racist. Obviously there's a difference.

How was it shockingly racist? She mocked a white woman for supposedly looking like an ape. Now, say he's "orange" or what-have-you, but Trump is actually a white man. So, again, what's the real difference here?

Why is one some sort of epic racist slur and the other is a-okay?

Valerie Jarrett has African-American parents and the slur referred to her parentage. This really isn't hard to understand.

How is a joke regarding an image of a white woman suddenly a slur about her parents? They're certainly not both of one race. And I hate the term "African-American" because that actually says nothing about their skin color. Elon Musk is African-American and he's whiter than I am.

It sounds like you're the one grasping for straws here. Suddenly a joke about her appearance also has to include her parents, which are obviously white or very close to being white considering Valerie's skin color. So, again, why is this racist and other ape jokes are not? Are you not allowed to use ape jokes if a person's family happens to be a different race? Your apparent line drawn between these jokes sure requires a lot of assumptions about it. Should I start assuming that calling Trump an ape is just anti-Semitic because his son-in-law happens to be Jewish?

Lol I'm not playing anymore. Obviously you understand what the difference is. Yes, it is definitely considered socially unacceptable to compare African-Americans to apes because it is a classic slur against them, and the same is not true about Caucasians. Or the unnaturally orange.  Also you can't seem to decide for yourself whether the slur was about her appearance or something else (it's like it changes depending on the situation). You can figure that out or not, I really don't care.

[Rama Set]

Valerie Jarrett has African-American parents and the slur referred to her parentage.

How does one demonstrate this relation?

By reading history. Ape as a racial epithet is not controversial.

Again, why does calling Trump an ape count as insulting Trump only, but calling Jarett (who is also white) an ape automatically carry over to her parents and become a racial slur?

Why is one inherently racist and the other is not? Should I start assuming anyone who insults Trump really just hates white people, or hates people with German ancestry, or hates Jews, just because those people happen to be related to him?

It sounds like your argument requires that we make a lot of assumptions that aren't readily stated and all of the assumptions we make only apply to this incident but not the other way around, which is quite odd.

It’s not inherently racist. It’s historically racist and that is the difference. Like if you called a white person nigger it wouldn’t be the same as calling a black person nigger.

[honk]

Valerie Jarrett isn't white. She's a light-skinned black woman due to her mixed ancestry.

[Rushy]

Valerie Jarrett isn't white. She's a light-skinned black woman due to her mixed ancestry.

Race is based on how you look, not your ancestry. You're talking about ethnicity, not race. Her race is white, not "light skinned" lmao.

Why is one ape joke deemed okay, while another is not? They both involve appearance.

Roseanne wasn't fired for mocking someone's appearance, she was fired because her joke was shockingly racist. Obviously there's a difference.

How was it shockingly racist? She mocked a white woman for supposedly looking like an ape. Now, say he's "orange" or what-have-you, but Trump is actually a white man. So, again, what's the real difference here?

Why is one some sort of epic racist slur and the other is a-okay?

Valerie Jarrett has African-American parents and the slur referred to her parentage. This really isn't hard to understand.

How is a joke regarding an image of a white woman suddenly a slur about her parents? They're certainly not both of one race. And I hate the term "African-American" because that actually says nothing about their skin color. Elon Musk is African-American and he's whiter than I am.

It sounds like you're the one grasping for straws here. Suddenly a joke about her appearance also has to include her parents, which are obviously white or very close to being white considering Valerie's skin color. So, again, why is this racist and other ape jokes are not? Are you not allowed to use ape jokes if a person's family happens to be a different race? Your apparent line drawn between these jokes sure requires a lot of assumptions about it. Should I start assuming that calling Trump an ape is just anti-Semitic because his son-in-law happens to be Jewish?

Lol I'm not playing anymore. Obviously you understand what the difference is. Yes, it is definitely considered socially unacceptable to compare African-Americans to apes because it is a classic slur against them, and the same is not true about Caucasians. Or the unnaturally orange.  Also you can't seem to decide for yourself whether the slur was about her appearance or something else (it's like it changes depending on the situation). You can figure that out or not, I really don't care.

But she's white so what exactly is your point? Again, should I start assuming people who insult Trump just hate all white people just because?

I've known black people who hate white people.

Some black people insult Trump.

Therefore if a black person insults Trump, they hate all white people.

This makes sense because I'm Roundy.

[Lord Dave]

But she's white so what exactly is your point?

I think she's half European, half black.

[Rama Set]

Valerie Jarrett isn't white. She's a light-skinned black woman due to her mixed ancestry.

She of mixed ancestry so this isn’t strictly true

Valerie Jarrett isn't white. She's a light-skinned black woman due to her mixed ancestry.

Race is based on how you look, not your ancestry. You're talking about ethnicity, not race. Her race is white, not "light skinned" lmao.

There are light-skinned black people.  I feel like there are two separate issues at play. On the one hand, calling someone an ape, who has pretty strong features of a sub-Saharan African is not cool. The other issue is that there is no good definition as to what constitutes a “race” and those definitions have been politically malleable for as long as they have existed. So in an America with any sense of justice, it would be just as bad to say Trump looks like an orangutan as saying Valerie’s Jarrett looks like a half ape, because are just petty attempts at making someone seem like “less than”.

[Lord Dave]

In other news:
Trump can not only pardon himself before conviction, but anyone else and stop any investigation he wants because its his right.


http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/06/the-constitutional-crisis-is-already-underway.html

[honk]

I love all the articles out there insisting that Trump wouldn't dare pardon himself because he wouldn't get away with it. Of course he would.

[Lord Dave]

I love all the articles out there insisting that Trump wouldn't dare pardon himself because he wouldn't get away with it. Of course he would.

Not only would he get away with it, his party would never impeach him over it AND his base would cheer him on, repeating whatever line Trump threw them.  Probably something involving a witchhunt.




I seriously wanna troll conservative sites with:


"OMG!  White House released an Obama memo from him to Comey about Bengazi!"
Then just copy what Trump's lawyers wrote.


See how many flip their shit.

[Pete Svarrior]

There are light-skinned black people.  I feel like there are two separate issues at play. On the one hand, calling someone an ape, who has pretty strong features of a sub-Saharan African is not cool. The other issue is that there is no good definition as to what constitutes a “race” and those definitions have been politically malleable for as long as they have existed. So in an America with any sense of justice, it would be just as bad to say Trump looks like an orangutan as saying Valerie’s Jarrett looks like a half ape, because are just petty attempts at making someone seem like “less than”.

This is the most convincing analysis so far, from my perspective. Vastly preferable to the alternative of "one is racist and the other is not because DUH obviously have they are"

[Lord Dave]

There are light-skinned black people.  I feel like there are two separate issues at play. On the one hand, calling someone an ape, who has pretty strong features of a sub-Saharan African is not cool. The other issue is that there is no good definition as to what constitutes a “race” and those definitions have been politically malleable for as long as they have existed. So in an America with any sense of justice, it would be just as bad to say Trump looks like an orangutan as saying Valerie’s Jarrett looks like a half ape, because are just petty attempts at making someone seem like “less than”.

This is the most convincing analysis so far, from my perspective. Vastly preferable to the alternative of "one is racist and the other is not because DUH obviously have they are"

Isn't that the whole point to insulting someone?  To make them "less than"?

[Rama Set]

There are light-skinned black people.  I feel like there are two separate issues at play. On the one hand, calling someone an ape, who has pretty strong features of a sub-Saharan African is not cool. The other issue is that there is no good definition as to what constitutes a “race” and those definitions have been politically malleable for as long as they have existed. So in an America with any sense of justice, it would be just as bad to say Trump looks like an orangutan as saying Valerie’s Jarrett looks like a half ape, because are just petty attempts at making someone seem like “less than”.

This is the most convincing analysis so far, from my perspective. Vastly preferable to the alternative of "one is racist and the other is not because DUH obviously have they are"

Isn't that the whole point to insulting someone?  To make them "less than"?

Yes. Is that some sort of justification for pettiness?