21

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Water spinning phenomenon

« on: January 31, 2019, 05:10:49 AM »

Hi, if you believe the Earth is flat, then can you please explain why water from a faucet will spin clockwise in the Southern hemisphere and counter-clockwise in the North?

Sure, sometimes it does, and sometimes it doesn’t.  It is an aweful way to prove anything.  If you built a large reservoir of water with a flat bottom and perfectly circular with at least many hundreds of gallons with a pipe drain in the centered ability to cleanly start the drain, yes they will rotate differently.  A kitchen sink or toilet is simply too small and have imperfections which impact the initial flow more then the rotation of the planet.

22

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Predictive power of FE theory

« on: January 31, 2019, 04:59:03 AM »

The round earth model is continuous farcical failure. There is NO model. The biggest problem in astronomy is the Three Body Problem. They can get the heliocentric orbits to work.

The OP has been duped into believing that there is a model. There is none. The Newtonian solar system is actually physically impossible, as demonstrated by hundreds of years of research on the matter by humanity's greatest mathematicians.

Here we go again with the 3 body mathematics problem that round Earth apparently won’t work without despite the world knowing the Earth was a sphere a thousand years before a 3 body math problem existed.  Tom knows that current mathematical solutions work out to a few million years for the 3 body solution with near 100% accuracy.  After that the accuracy starts to become less than 99% because of unforeseen gravitational events that far into the future start adding up.   That is hardly reason to throw out all of round Earth when literally everything in flat Earth theory requires magic with zero explanation scientifically.

Flat Earth Theory cannot even explain why everyone on Earth sees the same phase of the moon just shifted or how to explain the star trails and their rotational axi (2). It has no explanation for the setting sun and mountain shadows on the clouds at sunset that stand up to scrutiny. It has no explanation that fits sextant measurements using Polaris and Octans in the hemispheres.  It has no explanations for the movements of the near Sun and Moon or how they match what we see or how they can cause eclipses.  But let’s throw out all of round Earth theory because mathematically the 3 body problem is near 100% accurate for only 3 million years.... 

23

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Paper. Simply irrefutable.

« on: January 30, 2019, 08:45:15 PM »

Tom has seen the data for parts of Europe and Africa which measured gravity at hundreds of locations and it correlated perfectly with latitude so this is nothing new except the mapping of anomalies.

There is an expected gravity amount at every latitude, this is confirmable.  When local gravity is not what it is expected to be, this is useful information as it infers a regional effect is causing it more then just the geometric location on the planet. That is recorded as plus/minus the normal expected gravity reading.    This is the entire purpose of the studies to find the local anomalies and map them, not to preset gravity readings to confirm a globe to flat Earthers.

24

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: 2019 Total Lunar Eclipse

« on: January 24, 2019, 11:20:40 PM »

Tom, What is your problem with it exactly? It is observed to happen or it doesn’t.  You can’t change reality.  This matches what a globe would see. If the Earth were flat, why would everyone see the same phase just turned depending on your latitude? On a flat Earth the phases would turn according to latitude  and different phases seen depending on longitude.  We see the phases of the moon every day do the exact same thing just slower.

Your inability to understand doesn’t change reality.

25

Flat Earth Theory / Re: A shape question about the FE

« on: January 22, 2019, 08:09:20 PM »

Then, of course, there's the idea that you could just go out to the edge and launch a probe off or something, but I'm assuming that's off the table for now.

What makes you think there's an "edge"?

There has to be an edge if flat, we know it can’t be infinite.  The stars show us that.  The star trails show us a lot more then a flat Earth needs an edge but one thing is for sure that the infinite plane idea is impossible to fit in with the most basic of celestial observation.

26

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Universal Acceleration - Power Source discussion

« on: January 22, 2019, 08:05:58 PM »

Universal Acceleration would require the entirety of the Universe to speed up and pass the Earth doing cartwheels around us, correct?  We know stars have 2 celestial axis, Not just a north centered axis.  If it was just North then the star trails would be very different and UA model would be much easier.  The power source to selectively speed up or slow down in different directions would be something cyclical that rotated itself, like a second shell around the stars applying upward force on halftime stars and downward force on the other half.  Clarification on UA that matches observation of the movement of the stars is needed.

27

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Jupiter

« on: January 17, 2019, 05:22:53 PM »

Totallackey and Tom you still have not answered the question posed by the OP.

Hard to answer a question based on supposition.

Anyone with a decent telescope costing a hundred dollars or more can see Jupiter’s red spot moving to the edge then it disappears for four hours and some minutes and appears again on the other side of it.  The amount of time it is visible being near equal to the time it disappeared.

As demonstrated earlier this is evidence a spot appears and disappears and not evidence of rotation. 

It has objects orbiting it (four big ones easily seen from Earth), we call them moons, you call them whatever you want.  We also regularly see those objects cast shadows upon Jupiter.  We can also watch those moons orbit with a time frame, even disappearing behind Jupiter to come out the other side.  You both fail to address this as well.

So, something disappears to where?

How do you know where they disappear to if you can no longer observe them?   

There are millions of people with telescopes.  It is a guarantee that all of them look at Jupiter and its four easily viewable moons.

Citation please.

://www.cloudynights.com/index    Is one of many discussion forums about astrophotography with 800,000 plus member accounts.   I think it is safe to say that millions of people have seen it rotating and taken millions of photos of it.  Are you really telling us that images of Jupiter are questionable?  Is https://www.cloudynights.com/index and its 800,000 members all government shills posting fake pictures of the cosmos?   

Oh, so only 800 thousand accounts = millions...

Who said anything about fake pictures or shills?

So, basically, you have nothing as usual to add.  You are seriously questioning if millions have looked through a telescope?

If you look at just cheap telescopes, Walmart alone sells well over 100,000 scopes a year.  (4200 Walmart stores, you do the math) Meade sells 12 million dollars a year worth of entry level beginner telescopes and they are a distant number 3 telescope producer in the U.S. alone... Average price of a Meade beginner scope of $100 puts them at over 100,000 scopes a year.

A little math (common sense) shows millions of people have telescopes. Meade, Celestron, Orion sell around 10,000 serious telescopes a year capable of resolving nebulae, wide angle views of planets, etc.  Those people have families, classrooms, etc who they share their serious hobby with I have no doubt.  Yes, millions of people have easily looked through a scope and personally seen Jupiter.

28

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Jupiter

« on: January 17, 2019, 02:11:17 PM »

Totallackey and Tom you still have not answered the question posed by the OP.  Anyone with a decent telescope costing a hundred dollars or more can see Jupiter’s red spot moving to the edge then it disappears for four hours and some minutes and appears again on the other side of it.  The amount of time it is visible being near equal to the time it disappeared. 

It has objects orbiting it (four big ones easily seen from Earth), we call them moons, you call them whatever you want.  We also regularly see those objects cast shadows upon Jupiter.  We can also watch those moons orbit with a time frame, even disappearing behind Jupiter to come out the other side.  You both fail to address this as well.   

There are millions of people with telescopes.  It is a guarantee that all of them look at Jupiter and its four easily viewable moons.   https://www.cloudynights.com/index    Is one of many discussion forums about astrophotography with 800,000 plus member accounts.   I think it is safe to say that millions of people have seen it rotating and taken millions of photos of it.  Are you really telling us that images of Jupiter are questionable?  Is https://www.cloudynights.com/index and its 800,000 members all government shills posting fake pictures of the cosmos?   

29

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Jupiter

« on: January 13, 2019, 11:17:42 PM »

Jupiter has the same diameter as that of the Moon, Sun, Black Sun, Shadow Moon.

Its shape is discoidal, it is the layers of clouds which rotate above its surface.

The most puzzling fact about Jupiter is its angular momentum and its infrared radiation:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=55860.msg1393321#msg1393321

As for the orbits of its moons, you need to understand the flux of gravitons paradox.

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg1723400#msg1723400 (second part of the message, Sun - Jupiter - Io system)

Evidence?  We can measure the Ganymede, Callisto, Io, Europa orbit periods around Jupiter from Earth....  Ganymede 7.1 days, Callisto 16.7 days, Europa 3.6 days, Io 1.8 days.  They are clearly orbiting a spherical Jupiter.  If you have evidence showing a discoidal shape you should offer it.

30

Flat Earth Theory / Re: 2019 Total Lunar Eclipse

« on: January 09, 2019, 04:03:16 PM »

I mean, can you present the equation that can be used? You're the claimant here that this is all based on simple patterns. I've done the best I can with the resources I have. I cannot figure out how to work out the durations from what I would call first principles, and you've offered nothing to assist. I'll revise to say I find it improbable it's entirely based on simply repeating patterns, but I'm not gonna spend more time on it unless I can locate CSV files for the Saros Cycles, and preferably some useful information on integrating them.

Can you show us the solution to the Three Body Problem that this is based on?

How does this have any relevance to whether you or I can work out an equation based on the information provided by the Saros Cycles?

Just look at what NASA provides.

Image from https://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/SEsaros/SEsaros.html



Direct link to larger image: https://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/SEsaros/image/SEpanoramaGvdB-big.JPG

Do you see any patterns here? The patterns in the above image are graphical and apparent. To continue the pattern one only needs to perform the same two right and four down pattern, or whatever it might be. No equations are necessary.

Look at the scale of that image.  One step horizontally is 29 years...  Where does it say when, where, how long?  Blow that “pattern” up with exact times to the minute for past history and that image looks much less useful for predicting. The exact location on the planet that the total and partial solar eclipses are viewable to the minute...

You haven’t shown how that is possible with a pattern or shown how the ancients could predict when and where these events (particularly solar eclipses) occur considering in one region of the world they would miss the majority of the solar eclipses.  How would they make a pattern able to predict anything while missing the majority of the data?

 

31

Flat Earth Theory / Re: 2019 Total Lunar Eclipse

« on: January 08, 2019, 05:34:36 PM »

Tom likes to say it’s just patterns to predict eclipses both solar and lunar except he is missing the enormous flaw in FE wiki.  FET can’t even explain phases of the moon as seen for the entirety of the Earth.  Tom show me a diagram where a full moon (which is only time lunar eclipses happen) is even possible to be seen for everyone who can see the moon.

This is so incredibly basic that having this discussion about a relatively rare events compared to the daily events that FET has no explanation for is a little silly.

This isn’t even getting into Solar eclipses where the Moon would have to follow the same increasing and decreasing distances of the FE Sun and neither of those things happen by simple observation verified by their speeds not changing every single day.

32

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Solar spotlight

« on: January 07, 2019, 08:56:45 PM »

A step by step approach regarding the Sun might be better....


1.  Is the Sun a sphere?  If not, why not?
2.  Does light emanate from every surface of the Sun? If not, then explain...
3.  If a spherical Sun emanates light from all of its surface, why does it spotlight?

1. Yes.
2. Yes.
3. Perspective according to one version of FE, electromagnetic acceleration according to another.

If it’s yes, yes then EAT is even in a worse position since light if it bends that much it makes no sense to explain anything as the light rays coming from every point on a spherical Sun would negate bending as needed for EAT to shine on undersides of clouds for example. 

33

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Solar spotlight

« on: January 07, 2019, 06:46:32 PM »

A step by step approach regarding the Sun might be better....


1.  Is the Sun a sphere?  If not, why not?
2.  Does light emanate from every surface of the Sun? If not, then explain...
3.  If a spherical Sun emanates light from all of its surface, why does it spotlight? 

34

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Distance from Australia to Argentina dilemma

« on: January 07, 2019, 06:38:06 PM »

For the first question, I will predict the reasons for the discrepancy will be the following:
1. There is no official FE map and no accepted official model.
2. The exact location of the continents isn’t known.
3. FET has no funding to make an accurate map.
4. Those flights don’t really exist.
5. Those planes are flying on jet streams and actually are flying much faster then north of the Equator.

  Those answers won’t satisfy you I expect.  Your second question is a nonstarter as I find little argument the maps are incorrect above the Equator. 

35

Flat Earth Theory / Re: The Stars main page in FE Wiki

« on: January 03, 2019, 02:19:58 PM »

Before adding more unsupportable notions like close stars don’t you think you should prove the near Sun/Moon system first?  The near Sun/Moon are chasing each other and narrowing and widening their orbits significantly in your wiki.  Except there is a giant problem you keep ignoring....  The Sun/Moon aren’t following the same path, and the Sun/Moon are not speeding up for 6 months and slowing down for 6 months to make those orbits as easily measured from your backyard with little tools.

Then explain the phases of the Moon for a near Sun/Moon race as seen worldwide. 

These two incredibly basic things if your model (any of them) worked to explain this would be shouted loudly as it is actual evidence.

36

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Is Australia wider than it is now?

« on: January 03, 2019, 04:31:41 AM »

It works in the Northern hemisphere as well. It is an easy test of the globe, equal latitudes will have equal distances as their opposite latitude in the other hemisphere.  This is proposed by Rowbotham as a test of the globe if I recall as well. 

37

Flat Earth Theory / Re: 2019 Total Lunar Eclipse

« on: January 03, 2019, 02:52:26 AM »

Rowbotham explains in the article that "Earth's shadow" may be replaced with the term "the lunar eclipsor" with the same result. There is no geometry of the earth moon and sun in those equations.

On a round Earth the Earth is between the sun and the moon during a lunar eclipse, therefore the the lunar eclipsor is visible on the entire visible surface of the moon.  You're right, Tom.  It fits perfectly.

You still haven't explained what causes earth's shadow, the lunar eclipsor, to appear on the moon.  Are you suggesting that there is a celestial body - let's call it "Sun" - directly under the flat earth - I'll call it Earth for short - casting a shadow of said disk (or disc) on the moon?

Frankly, a shadow object magically appearing just in time to cause eclipses makes more sense then the Moon chasing the Sun in narrowing and widening circles speeding up for six months then slowing down back and forth back and forth.  For the moon to cause a solar eclipse it would have to pass just underneath it, why wouldn’t we get all kinds of different views of such an event?  We would be incredibly lucky they never collided since they are so close to us...   Really, the shadow objects with invisible properties the rest of the time are more likely then the near Sun/Moon chasing each other as far as I am concerned. 

38

Flat Earth Theory / Re: FET 'Season'

« on: January 02, 2019, 02:01:55 PM »

In order for the Sun to move in and out it would have to significantly change velocities.  The Sun angular velocity as it moves through the sky is the same from year to year.  Tom will answer with something about it slowing down due to perspective as it sets, but that is a diversion from the issue.  The Sun would have to travel faster throughout 6 months of the year to make that trip as it approaches Tropic of Capricorn. The Sun would have to travel significantly slower as it approaches the Tropic of Cancer.   This is reality. Slow down, speed up, slow down, speed up, how is this happening, why is it happening, what force even works this way?   The Zeteticists method in action.  Observable evidence, and FET haz zero observable repeatable verifiable evidence this is happening, yet its wiki says that is exactly what occurs every day every year for millennia.

Tom complains that physics can’t perfectly start the 3 bodies and know exactly where they will be millions of years in the future, yet he has no problem accepting the Sun and Moon chase each other relying on literally magic and ignoring observable evidence from our back yards.  Tom will continue to divert from the topic and complain about the 3 body problem instead of addressing the giant issue that the Sun takes near 24 hours to complete a revolution every day of the year and doesn’t speed or slow down as his near Sun/Moon orbiting above model require.

How are there seasons resulting from a Sun AND Moon traveling vastly different distances in their orbits without observably changing velocities?  It is a simple question that must be answered or the FET with this Sun/Moon orbit is rubbish.

Edited for typo

39

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Matching Observed Alignment of the Sun on Earth Models

« on: December 28, 2018, 08:08:25 PM »

The only confusion i see is that you don’t understand spherical geometry and the difference between a direction bearing, azimuth, and a path on said sphere. To follow an easterly path on the globe you continually curve left slightly in the Northern Hemisphere  and right slightly in the Southern Hemisphere.

Take a globe. Draw a line connecting north and south poles. Pick any point away from the equator a bit, measure 90 degrees, continue that line around the curve and draw that straight line or use a rubber band.  That line is not a path someone would take to continuously head east.  It is due east for that location on the globe however.  Before any progress can be made, this fundamental concept has to be understood.

40

Flat Earth Investigations / Re: Crossing of Antarctica

« on: December 28, 2018, 03:52:21 PM »

Personally I don't believe it. National Geo has already proved to run FAKE stories, ie

https://www.dailywire.com/news/33782/fake-news-nat-geo-admits-viral-photo-polar-bear-amanda-prestigiacomo

The whole space thing with a globe is absurd.

Are we allowed to believe foxnews?  https://www.foxnews.com/sports/american-endurance-athlete-achieves-impossible-journey-oregonian-first-man-to-solo-across-antarctica-unaided

Dailywire and fake news in the same sentence is a little ironic.

https://climatefeedback.org/evaluation/global-quackery-earth-not-warmed-past-19-years-new-study-finds-joseph-curl-the-daily-wire/

Here is one of many posts from dailywire blasting FET...

https://www.dailywire.com/news/37763/walsh-flat-earth-matt-walsh

Are dailywire and foxnews both issuing fake news regularly just like National Geographic?