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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #6300 on: September 30, 2020, 01:34:16 PM »
Considering the debate was what you'd see in an online forum, i think it applies.
Perhaps we should invite both candidates to a debate in PR&S.

Or maybe it should just start in AR.

I'm certain Parsifal would kill us if we did.  The traffic those two would generate would crash the site in seconds and the host would scream at his customer, Parsifal, for allowing it.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trump
« Reply #6301 on: September 30, 2020, 08:48:55 PM »
Proud Boys, stand by!

That's not even a white supremacist group.


Rama Set

Re: Trump
« Reply #6302 on: September 30, 2020, 09:01:30 PM »
Proud Boys, stand by!

That's not even a white supremacist group.


They aren't but they are connected to political violence, western chauvinism and misogyny.  You are welcome to give your endorsement of them here if you want.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trump
« Reply #6303 on: September 30, 2020, 09:02:15 PM »
They aren't

So why should Trump condemn them when asked to condemn white supremacists?

Rama Set

Re: Trump
« Reply #6304 on: September 30, 2020, 09:08:15 PM »
They aren't

So why should Trump condemn them when asked to condemn white supremacists?

Why are you defending the proud boys?


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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #6305 on: September 30, 2020, 09:28:15 PM »
They aren't

So why should Trump condemn them when asked to condemn white supremacists?

Why did he even mention them, or any group?
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: Trump
« Reply #6306 on: September 30, 2020, 09:35:43 PM »
They aren't

So why should Trump condemn them when asked to condemn white supremacists?

He was asked to condemn white supremacists AND MILITIA GROUPS

Quote
are you willing tonight to condemn white supremacists and militia group and to say that they need to stand down and not add to the violence in a number of these cities as we saw in Kenosha and as we’ve seen in Portland.

President Donald J. Trump: (41:57)
Sure, I’m will to do that.

Chris Wallace: (41:59)
Are you prepared specifically to do it.

President Donald J. Trump: (42:00)
I would say almost everything I see is from the left wing not from the right wing.

Chris Wallace: (42:04)
But what are you saying?

President Donald J. Trump: (42:06)
I’m willing to do anything. I want to see peace.

Chris Wallace: (42:08)
Well, do it, sir.

Vice President Joe Biden: (42:09)
Say it, do it say it.

President Donald J. Trump: (42:10)
What do you want to call them? Give me a name, give me a name, go ahead who do you want me to condemn.

Chris Wallace: (42:14)
White supremacist and right-wing militia.

President Donald J. Trump: (42:18)
Proud Boys, stand back and stand by. But I’ll tell you what somebody’s got to do something about Antifa and the left because this is not a right wing problem this is a left wing.

Vice President Joe Biden: (42:28)
He’s own FBI Director said unlike white supremacist, Antifa is an idea not an organization-

President Donald J. Trump: (42:35)
Oh you got to be kidding me.

Vice President Joe Biden: (42:36)
… not a militia. That’s what his FBI Director said.

President Donald J. Trump: (42:41)
Well, then you know what, he’s wrong.
=============================
Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
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Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: Trump
« Reply #6307 on: September 30, 2020, 09:40:33 PM »
Proud Boys, stand by!

That's not even a white supremacist group.

Wikipedia disagrees;

"The group believes men—especially white men—and Western culture are under siege; their views have elements of the white genocide conspiracy theory.(Confirmed by three external sources [23][24][25]) Officially, the group rejects white supremacy, although members have participated in multiple racist events and events centered around anti-left violence, with a former member organizing the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville.(Source [26])
=============================
Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
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Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trump
« Reply #6308 on: September 30, 2020, 10:58:53 PM »
Quote from: Lord Dave
Why did he even mention them, or any group?

They are talking over each other and Joe Biden says Proud Boys before Trump at the 42 second mark:



Quote from: Tumenii
He was asked to condemn white supremacists AND MILITIA GROUPS

So you give up on the white supremacist issue and think that Trump failed to condemn militia groups then? Wrong. He specifically condemned the left wing militia groups in that conversation.

Internet:







Morons. The group he was asked about was not a white supremacist group.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2020, 11:59:15 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Iceman

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Re: Trump
« Reply #6309 on: September 30, 2020, 11:00:55 PM »
If the proud boys weren't a supremacist-leaning group... why arent they pissed for being labelled as such on a national TV broadcast, by all three parties in the debate?

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trump
« Reply #6310 on: September 30, 2020, 11:21:12 PM »
If the proud boys weren't a supremacist-leaning group... why arent they pissed for being labelled as such on a national TV broadcast, by all three parties in the debate?

What makes you think that you know what they think or are saying?

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/sep/30/wilfred-reilly-insists-proud-boys-arent-white-supr/

Quote
It turns out not everybody believes the Proud Boys are white supremacists, including a prominent Black professor at a historically Black university.

Wilfred Reilly, associate professor of political science at Kentucky State University, said Wednesday that “the Proud Boys aren’t white supremacists,” describing the right-wing group’s beliefs as “Western chauvinist” and noting that their international chairman, Enrique Tarrio, is Black.

“Gotta say: the Proud Boys aren’t white supremacists,” tweeted Mr. Reilly, author of “Hate Crime Hoax.”

The Proud Boys came under the microscope after President Trump refused during Tuesday’s presidential debate to condemn them as white supremacists, saying, “Proud Boys — stand back and stand by,” prompting accusations that he was supporting virulent racists.

Mr. Reilly said that about 10% to 20% of Proud Boys activists are people of color, a diverse racial composition that is “extremely well-known in law enforcement,” based on his research.

“Enrique Tarrio, their overall leader, is a Black Cuban dude. The Proud Boys explicitly say they’re not racist,” Mr. Reilly told The Washington Times. “They are an openly right-leaning group and they’ll openly fight you — they don’t deny any of this — but saying they’re White supremacist: If you’re talking about a group of people more than 10% people of color and headed by an Afro-Latino guy, that doesn’t make sense.”

Trump has condemned white supremacists and their leaders many times. This is a bad narrative.

« Last Edit: September 30, 2020, 11:49:57 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Roundy

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Re: Trump
« Reply #6311 on: October 01, 2020, 12:06:38 AM »
Proud Boys, stand by!

That's not even a white supremacist group.

I didn't say they were.  ???
Dr. Frank is a physicist. He says it's impossible. So it's impossible.
My friends, please remember Tom said this the next time you fall into the trap of engaging him, and thank you. :)

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trump
« Reply #6312 on: October 01, 2020, 12:16:54 AM »
Proud Boys, stand by!

That's not even a white supremacist group.

I didn't say they were.  ???

Nor did I. Learn the difference between an accusation and a comment.

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Offline honk

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Re: Trump
« Reply #6313 on: October 01, 2020, 12:34:58 AM »
The Proud Boys are violent pieces of shit who regularly spout racist, hateful rhetoric. That they're willing to admit non-white members and don't like to call themselves white supremacists doesn't change that. They should have been a very easy condemnation, and they would have been for literally any other mainstream politician. Trump's first instinct when faced with his racist fanbase is always to let them know that he's on their side, or at least to not alienate them by making it clear that he isn't on their side. It's only some time later, presumably after every single one of his advisors tells him that it would be political suicide not to condemn these people, that the requisite disavowals of hatred and violence come. (There may be a condemnation of the Proud Boys coming at some point in the near future, depending on the backlash. We'll see.) Now, I don't necessarily think that someone's intuition is always indicative of their morality, but at least in this case, I think it's telling that when put on the spot and left to his own devices, Trump instinctively chooses to pander to the more repugnant corners of his fanbase and cultivate their support rather than make a stand against their horrible beliefs and actions.
ur retartet but u donut even no it and i walnut tell u y

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trump
« Reply #6314 on: October 01, 2020, 01:09:11 AM »


Oregon's idiot governor needs to research things before typing them.



Wrong. Trump has condemned white supremacists repeatedly.

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Offline Roundy

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Re: Trump
« Reply #6315 on: October 01, 2020, 01:10:55 AM »
Proud Boys, stand by!

That's not even a white supremacist group.

I didn't say they were.  ???

Nor did I. Learn the difference between an accusation and a comment.

Expect a little confusion, then, if you're going to quote me and then make a context-free comment.  ::)
Dr. Frank is a physicist. He says it's impossible. So it's impossible.
My friends, please remember Tom said this the next time you fall into the trap of engaging him, and thank you. :)

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trump
« Reply #6316 on: October 01, 2020, 01:34:14 AM »
Expect a little confusion, then, if you're going to quote me and then make a context-free comment.  ::)

If I was going to accuse you of something I would have. Instead I expected you to be aware of what was said in the debate and your movement's current false liberal outrage and lies.

Rama Set

Re: Trump
« Reply #6317 on: October 01, 2020, 01:50:44 AM »
false liberal outrage

Congrats for being as buzzwordy as "social justice".  There is plenty of well placed negative feelings towards the Proud Boys.  Do you think people should be happy that Trump appears to give them a modicrum of support?  Is that laudable?


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Offline Roundy

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Re: Trump
« Reply #6318 on: October 01, 2020, 02:01:27 AM »
Expect a little confusion, then, if you're going to quote me and then make a context-free comment.  ::)

If I was going to accuse you of something I would have. Instead I expected you to be aware of what was said in the debate and your movement's current false liberal outrage and lies.

So... what was the point of quoting me and posting a context-free free comment, then?  ???
Dr. Frank is a physicist. He says it's impossible. So it's impossible.
My friends, please remember Tom said this the next time you fall into the trap of engaging him, and thank you. :)

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Offline honk

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Re: Trump
« Reply #6319 on: October 01, 2020, 02:48:19 AM »


Wrong. Trump has condemned white supremacists repeatedly.

They're not mutually exclusive. Trump has condemned white supremacists and racists repeatedly, and he has also refrained from condemning them or otherwise tried to mitigate or distract from their behavior on multiple occasions. The latter fact is notable, and doesn't become diluted or less significant in the wake of subsequent disavowals.
ur retartet but u donut even no it and i walnut tell u y