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Offline Dr Van Nostrand

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9860 on: August 12, 2022, 01:08:54 PM »
So tell us, you know a lot about what won't work. What would be your plan for dealing with a heavily armed police presence, protected by Republicans and police unions that are harassing good people while the criminals run rampant?
I don't have one. Shit's fucked. But I also don't pretend to have a revolutionary plan that will Totally Work™.

Revolutionary plans that will Totally Work™ are dangerous, because they're a fantastic way to make things much worse. Friends don't let friends spread that kinda BS.

Yes, shit's fucked. But some of us know that things are getting worse and we can't go on this way.

Some people just point and say, 'this won't work' or 'that won't work' but we have no choice except to try. If it fucks up, we'll try something else. If that fucks up, we'll try something else.
What we can't do is just accept that this is our life.

If it was your town, you would just deal with it?

If we accept this bullshit from our cops, we're just as guilty as they are.
My hate for you and everything you stand for is so much deeper than the depths of Shambala that you could probably take the entire Lungmen population down there and back up around twenty million times before you would have sunk to the end of my hate.



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Offline stack

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9861 on: August 12, 2022, 04:44:05 PM »
So tell us, you know a lot about what won't work. What would be your plan for dealing with a heavily armed police presence, protected by Republicans and police unions that are harassing good people while the criminals run rampant?

I'm not sure if it was successful up to 2022, but Camden, NJ ostensibly wiped out their PD and started fresh.

The City that Really Did Abolish the Police

And PD Unions really do seem to be somewhat problematic.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9862 on: August 12, 2022, 06:21:29 PM »
If it fucks up, we'll try something else. If that fucks up, we'll try something else.
That's generously assuming you're still alive to try, or that you have enough of a societal framework reamining for that to make any sense. Your plans are likely to make that no longer the case, so we won't be trying them, thanks.

If it was your town, you would just deal with it?
Yes, because I have no alternative available, and just making things worse because at least we're doing something is a fantastic way of increasing misery in the world. I'm a big fan of not fucking up the world just to appease my sense of righteousness.

This is why I hope that the "dEfUnD tHe PoLiCe" idiots never gain any ground. Luckily, they're very unlikely to.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2022, 06:27:45 PM by Pete Svarrior »
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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9863 on: August 12, 2022, 06:28:26 PM »
If it was your town, you would just deal with it?
Yes, because I have no alternative available, and just making things worse because at least we're doing something is a fantastic way of increasing misery in the world. I'm a big fan of not fucking up the world just to appease my sense of righteousness.

This is why I hope that the "dEfUnD tHe PoLiCe" idiots never gain any ground. Luckily, they're very unlikely to.

I disagree.  I think using police budget for retaining and training people who are not there to fight, shoot, or restle people but convince them to to stop peacefully... Is a good idea.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9864 on: August 12, 2022, 06:31:28 PM »
I disagree.  I think using police budget for retaining and training people who are not there to fight, shoot, or restle people but convince them to to stop peacefully... Is a good idea.
I should have spoken more clearly, and that's on me.

I think there is plenty of room for reform in American police departments. However, if the question is "defund or not?", my answer is "not". I believe there is no alternative to that answer to that specific question. If you expand the question to what Dr Van Drugs posited - "would you rather defund the police or do nothing?" - then my answer is "do nothing", because "defiunding the police" is only going to make things much worse.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9865 on: August 12, 2022, 06:46:19 PM »
I disagree.  I think using police budget for retaining and training people who are not there to fight, shoot, or restle people but convince them to to stop peacefully... Is a good idea.
I should have spoken more clearly, and that's on me.

I think there is plenty of room for reform in American police departments. However, if the question is "defund or not?", my answer is "not". I believe there is no alternative to that answer to that specific question. If you expand the question to what Dr Van Drugs posited - "would you rather defund the police or do nothing?" - then my answer is "do nothing", because "defiunding the police" is only going to make things much worse.

Its a problem with slogans.  Big, complex ideas ,that probably take a few pages to explain, are boiled down to a few words.  They are memeified, if you will.

If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline Dr Van Nostrand

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9866 on: August 12, 2022, 07:49:17 PM »
That's generously assuming you're still alive to try, or that you have enough of a societal framework reamining for that to make any sense. Your plans are likely to make that no longer the case, so we won't be trying them, thanks.

This is why I hope that the "dEfUnD tHe PoLiCe" idiots never gain any ground. Luckily, they're very unlikely to.

I get it, you've been subjected to the same indoctrination that we all have. That The Thin Blue Line protects us from the murderers, rapist, robbers, liberals, socialist, homosexuals other freaks that are ready to destroy our world. It's part of what the corrupt law enforcement uses to keep us in line.

I'm a big fan of not fucking up the world just to appease my sense of righteousness

You think this is about someone's sense of righteousness? We're living with this fucked up shit.

People all over the world use this local issue in their own political agenda.

There's a point at which inaction is making things worse.

Dr Van Drugs

I resemble that remark.
My hate for you and everything you stand for is so much deeper than the depths of Shambala that you could probably take the entire Lungmen population down there and back up around twenty million times before you would have sunk to the end of my hate.



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Offline Dr Van Nostrand

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9867 on: August 12, 2022, 08:07:43 PM »
Its a problem with slogans.  Big, complex ideas ,that probably take a few pages to explain, are boiled down to a few words.  They are memeified, if you will.

This is an excellent point. The fact is that every reform measure Pete mentioned has been tried over and over and over again with no results. The situation continues to decay.

Instead of defunding the police, maybe we should just call it an extreme retraining and re-budgeting of resources.
It wouldn't frighten the mainstream masses as much.
My hate for you and everything you stand for is so much deeper than the depths of Shambala that you could probably take the entire Lungmen population down there and back up around twenty million times before you would have sunk to the end of my hate.



Round Earther patiently looking for a better deal...

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9868 on: August 12, 2022, 08:13:32 PM »
Its a problem with slogans.  Big, complex ideas ,that probably take a few pages to explain, are boiled down to a few words.  They are memeified, if you will.

This is an excellent point. The fact is that every reform measure Pete mentioned has been tried over and over and over again with no results. The situation continues to decay.

Instead of defunding the police, maybe we should just call it an extreme retraining and re-budgeting of resources.
It wouldn't frighten the mainstream masses as much.

Or "De-Escelation team implementstion"



But in ACTUAL Trump news...
FBI collected multiple sets of classified documents from Trump's Mar-a-Lago home https://www.npr.org/2022/08/12/1117151056/fbi-collected-multiple-sets-of-classified-documents-from-trumps-mar-a-lago-home?sc=18&f=1117151056

TLDR: The man stole and didn't turn over 11 classified documents.  At least one of which wasn't allowded to leave the facility it was in.

He is really, really fucked.  And he'd be in Jail if he didn't have an army of redhsts ready to start Civil War 2 at his command.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9869 on: August 12, 2022, 08:17:50 PM »
I get it, you've been subjected to the same indoctrination that we all have. That The Thin Blue Line protects us from the murderers, rapist, robbers, liberals, socialist, homosexuals other freaks that are ready to destroy our world. It's part of what the corrupt law enforcement uses to keep us in line.
Lol, my dude, I'm pretty firmly against policing as a concept. I'm more radical than you can hope to ever be. Tubular, even.

That doesn't mean I'm an advocate for setting one's testicles on fire, which you appear to be in favour of.

You think this is about someone's sense of righteousness?
Of course not! It would be very unkind of me to project my thoughts onto you. I merely trust that you didn't lie to me when you explained your goals.

And it just so happens that your goals are antithetical to anything that's good in this world. Fix it.

Instead of defunding the police, maybe we should just call it an extreme retraining and re-budgeting of resources.
A good first step towards fixing it. Now you just need to realise that you've done much more than reword your ideas. You fundamentally changed them to no longer be immediately disastrous. Lots of work yet to do, but lots of progress made.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2022, 08:20:27 PM by Pete Svarrior »
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
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Online Rama Set

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9870 on: August 15, 2022, 12:37:16 AM »
So Trump gave back all his classified documents. The ones he didn’t give back were planted. The ones that weren’t planted he total declassifiedTM but the paperwork is a bitch, so maybe he didn’t but all they had to do was ask for the docs back (more than the two times they did, I guess).

The FBI, after they planted classified documents, took privileges documents, despite having a taint team to explicitly avoid that. Now in a totally consistent and not hypocritical move AT ALL, GOP pundits and politicians, are asking for the defunding if the FBI and striking down of the espionage act.

This entire clusterfuck has also somehow improved polling for Trump against De Santis by double digits. America, you are well and truly fucked and seemingly speedrunnig the descent in to failed state.
Th*rk is the worst person on this website.

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Offline markjo

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9871 on: August 15, 2022, 02:10:20 AM »
The ones that weren’t planted he total declassifiedTM...
Except for the ones that were about nukes, which even the president can't declassify.

...GOP pundits and politicians, are asking for the defunding if the FBI ...
Do you mean defund the same FBI led by a director that Trump himself appointed?
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. -- Charles Darwin

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9872 on: August 15, 2022, 06:05:19 AM »
So Trump gave back all his classified documents. The ones he didn’t give back were planted. The ones that weren’t planted he total declassifiedTM but the paperwork is a bitch, so maybe he didn’t but all they had to do was ask for the docs back (more than the two times they did, I guess).

The FBI, after they planted classified documents, took privileges documents, despite having a taint team to explicitly avoid that. Now in a totally consistent and not hypocritical move AT ALL, GOP pundits and politicians, are asking for the defunding if the FBI and striking down of the espionage act.

This entire clusterfuck has also somehow improved polling for Trump against De Santis by double digits. America, you are well and truly fucked and seemingly speedrunnig the descent in to failed state.

Yep.
And should they persecute Trump for any crime, he'll be reelected on the grounds of being a victim.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline honk

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9873 on: August 19, 2022, 03:54:23 AM »
This is practically ancient history at this point, but it's been several weeks since Cassidy Hutchinson's testimony about Trump's meltdown on January 6th, and despite anonymous - sorry, confidential sources telling the media that the story wasn't true and that the Secret Service agents involved were eager to testify and deny it all, no such testimony has materialized, and the Secret Service as a whole seem to have nothing more to say on the subject. This is only conjecture on my part, of course, but I believe that they wouldn't have had a problem testifying if the story were false. I suspect that either the Secret Service's leadership doesn't want to put their agents in the position of essentially "telling on" the president, or the agents themselves are refusing to testify out of (understandable) fears of angering the MAGA hordes, especially after seeing how Hutchinson had to go into hiding after her testimony.
ur retartet but u donut even no it and i walnut tell u y

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9874 on: August 26, 2022, 05:10:14 PM »
The affidavit for the search of Mar-a-lago

https://drive.google.com/viewerng/viewer?url=https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/22267178/mar-a-lago-search-warrant-affidavit.pdf

Summary:
1. The National Archives got, eventually, some boxes back in January.  They had MIXED classification. So Top Secret was mixed in with Confidential.  This is bad in and of itself.
2. They had reason to suspect that there were more classified documents.
3. Some of those documents were  NDI(National Defense Information).
4. Mar a Lago does NOT have proper classified document storage facilities.


So yeah, he took documents with a moving truck, to Mar a Lago, with boxes of mixed intelligence, some of which had hand written notes by Trump, and dumped them in an insecure room, all mixed together.  Then gave back SOME boxes but not all.  And the National Archives was not falling for that shit and called the FBI which basically went "Yeah... that guy is hiding classified documents in his basement with almost 0 security.  That's shady as fuck."
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9875 on: August 26, 2022, 07:02:36 PM »
It sounds more like the leftists in the government are trying to cover up their crimes:

https://www.justsecurity.org/82723/trump-associates-stated-plan-to-publicly-release-declassified-documents/

    When news of the Mar-a-Lago documents began heating up in May 2022, Patel spoke with right-wing media outlets about Trump’s objectives in retaining these documents. He began laying out the defense that the documents had been “declassified,” and specifically identified Trump’s goal to release the information publicly. He described the content of the documents to include matters related to the FBI’s Russia investigation (Crossfire Hurricane), but also a much broader range of issues.

    “It’s information that Trump felt spoke to matters regarding everything from Russiagate to the Ukraine impeachment fiasco to major national security matters of great public importance — anything the president felt the American people had a right to know is in there and more,” Patel told Breitbart on May 5. He also said, “Trump declassified whole sets of materials in anticipation of leaving government that he thought the American public should have the right to read themselves.”
« Last Edit: August 26, 2022, 07:05:49 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9876 on: August 26, 2022, 07:26:11 PM »
It sounds more like the leftists in the government are trying to cover up their crimes:

https://www.justsecurity.org/82723/trump-associates-stated-plan-to-publicly-release-declassified-documents/

    When news of the Mar-a-Lago documents began heating up in May 2022, Patel spoke with right-wing media outlets about Trump’s objectives in retaining these documents. He began laying out the defense that the documents had been “declassified,” and specifically identified Trump’s goal to release the information publicly. He described the content of the documents to include matters related to the FBI’s Russia investigation (Crossfire Hurricane), but also a much broader range of issues.

    “It’s information that Trump felt spoke to matters regarding everything from Russiagate to the Ukraine impeachment fiasco to major national security matters of great public importance — anything the president felt the American people had a right to know is in there and more,” Patel told Breitbart on May 5. He also said, “Trump declassified whole sets of materials in anticipation of leaving government that he thought the American public should have the right to read themselves.”

See, that defense might make sense if
1. He actually declassified them instead of just saying so.  While he CAN order them declassified without paperwork, they do need to actually do the Declassification process.

2. He hasn't realeased any of it and its been a year and a half.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

Re: Trump
« Reply #9877 on: August 26, 2022, 07:27:33 PM »
for anyone interested, here's a good primer on these issues as they related to declassification laws: https://www.lawfareblog.com/can-trump-just-declare-nuclear-secrets-unclassified

As this article was going to press, ABC News published a report that weeks before the Mar-a-Lago search, former President Donald Trump’s associate Kash Patel “vowed to retrieve classified documents from the National Archives and publish them on his website.”

fyi that's called espionage.

I have visited from prestigious research institutions of the highest caliber, to which only our administrator holds with confidence.

Offline ohplease

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9878 on: August 26, 2022, 07:34:42 PM »
It sounds more like the leftists in the government are trying to cover up their crimes:

https://www.justsecurity.org/82723/trump-associates-stated-plan-to-publicly-release-declassified-documents/
Total nonsense.  First declassification is a processes, even for a President, and it was not followed in regard to these docs so clearly they were not declassified.  Second one of the key reasons for the search as expressed in the affidavit is the complete lack of a process to keep documents segregated based on their security level.  This is the most basic of document handling and Trump appears to have ignored it during and after his presidency.  Third that contrary to Trump's claim of cooperation clearly they were instead explicitly obstructing.

If Trump's intent was to release information from these docs, then why hasn't he done it?   Likely because while he likes to claim there is evidence exonerating him wrt the Russia/Muller investigation, in fact the evidence is the opposite and shows Putin DID help him get elected.  Connecting the dots to the Trump campaign sufficiently for a jury might be another matter (or not), but we know for sure that the Internet Research Agency (the Internet advertising arm of the FSB) DID run ads favoring Trump in 2016.

Whether Trump's supporters will be taken in yet again by this latest Trump con game, or whether it will be a bridge to far even for them, remains to be seen.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2022, 07:36:45 PM by ohplease »

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Offline WTF_Seriously

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Re: Trump
« Reply #9879 on: August 26, 2022, 08:26:17 PM »
Whether Trump's supporters will be taken in yet again by this latest Trump con game, or whether it will be a bridge to far even for them, remains to be seen.

Imagine still being gullible enough to be a Trump  defender/supporter.
Flat-Earthers seem to have a very low standard of evidence for what they want to believe but an impossibly high standard of evidence for what they don’t want to believe.

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