[Lord Dave]

So... I just learned how the hackers got into the DNC e-mail and that they tried something similar in the RNC systems. 

An e-mail.
It was a fucking e-mail.  The god damn, moron clicked a link in a suspicious god damn e-mail.

The RNC, by the way, didn't click the suspicious link.

[Pete Svarrior]

[Rama Set]

So... I just learned how the hackers got into the DNC e-mail and that they tried something similar in the RNC systems. 

An e-mail.
It was a fucking e-mail.  The god damn, moron clicked a link in a suspicious god damn e-mail.

The RNC, by the way, didn't click the suspicious link.

Apparently the person who received the malicious email asked someone, also via email, if it was ok to click the link and a typo in the reply gave the impression that it was. And thus, Trump became president.

[xasop]

The Electoral College has just elected Trump president. #MAGA

[model 29]

One of my friends is taking this pretty hard.  He's been going downhill for quite some time with his man Obama in charge, so I don't know why he was expecting anything different anytime soon with Hillary. 

[garygreen]

http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/312132-fbi-dhs-release-report-on-russia-hacking

the report: https://www.us-cert.gov/sites/default/files/publications/JAR_16-20296A_GRIZZLY%20STEPPE-2016-1229.pdf

[George]

But Rushy assured me that the WaPo had made all of this up because they were sore losers!

[Pete Svarrior]

Lol, at this point Obama is deliberately destroying his country to make Trump's job harder. 10/10 president, January 20th couldn't come any sooner.

http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/312132-fbi-dhs-release-report-on-russia-hacking

the report: https://www.us-cert.gov/sites/default/files/publications/JAR_16-20296A_GRIZZLY%20STEPPE-2016-1229.pdf

I admit I only skimmed through the document [e: I have since read it more thoroughly], so I may have well missed something that's hidden in plain sight, but (other than pointing the finger very loudly) has this report made any attempt of providing evidence that the attackers were Russian intelligence agencies?

The best I can find is a reference to this statement where they assert that they're confident in their assessment and that such actions are not unprecedented.

The article itself seems even worse - the groups are "thought" to be run by the Russians, and phishing is super srs hacking. It just comes across as lacking any kind of awareness.

But Rushy assured me that the WaPo had made all of this up because they were sore losers!

His assurances appear to be as evidence-based as DHS's allegations to date.

[garygreen]

I admit I only skimmed through the document [e: I have since read it more thoroughly], so I may have well missed something that's hidden in plain sight, but (other than pointing the finger very loudly) has this report made any attempt of providing evidence that the attackers were Russian intelligence agencies?

it all seems very schematic to me, but i would've posed the same question to you since i have virtually no expertise of any kind in coding/networking/whatever other computer things matter here.

i don't expect that we'll be given the source material until well after the trump presidency is over, or until such time as it no longer matters if russia knows how we knew what we knew.

for me personally it's difficult to see how or why this would all be manufacturing from whole cloth.  i'm not even sure why the claim that russia uses these sorts of clandestine operations to fuck with the us is controversial.  i mean they're not exactly our allies...

Lol, at this point Obama is deliberately destroying his country to make Trump's job harder.

sigh.  i mean i know he's on the blue team or whatever, but get real.

[Lord Dave]

From what I read it goes like this:

Two groups that use specific domains and handles and are known Russian affiliates, spammed phishing e-mails to a bunch of people and got the DNC to click it twice.  Once for an install of malware in 2015 that let them in and the other, in 2016, to change their password, which they did like a dumbass and also let them in.

So the "evidence" boils down to "Yeah, we know the guys who sent it.  Trust us."

This may or may not be contradictory to Wikileaks, depending on how it was done.  Like, if the group had an agent inside the DNC who did this, it could still appear to come from an insider while at the same time be done by Russia.

But if that isn't so then who should we believe?  That the DNC is incompetent and clicked on a phishing e-mail twice?  Or that someone inside got access to the e-mail account and did it him/herself?

[Pete Svarrior]

it all seems very schematic to me, but i would've posed the same question to you since i have virtually no expertise of any kind in coding/networking/whatever other computer things matter here.

When it comes to cyber attacks, attribution is extremely difficult. You can find plenty of hints (mostly cultural, e.g. people from different backgrounds write code differently, so some analysis can give you an idea of the dialect used, much like in a human language), but hard evidence is rare. That's why it's so uncommon for high profile conflicts to arise from cyber attacks.

I'm sure intelligence agencies are fucking with each other all the time, and they can probably make a good guess as to who's fucking with them at a given time, but that's where this situation is uncomfortably different. They're very confident, so confident that Obama decided to start a major diplomatic standoff just moments before he, y'know, won't have to deal with any of it.

for me personally it's difficult to see how or why this would all be manufacturing from whole cloth.  i'm not even sure why the claim that russia uses these sorts of clandestine operations to fuck with the us is controversial.  i mean they're not exactly our allies...

Aside from the suspicious level of confidence, the lack even a vague hint as to how they figured it out, and the aggrandised claims about the scale of the attacks, it's really not controversial. It's perfectly possible that the Russian government ordered their intelligence agencies to find dirt on Hillary to boost Trump. It's even less controversial since it looks like all they did was supply the press with correct and accurate information. But the US response suggests that there's either much more to it, or (as I chose to believe) much less to it.

sigh.  i mean i know he's on the blue team or whatever, but get real.

No, no, hear me out, this has nothing to do with teams. Obama has 20-something days left in office and suddenly he simultaneously launches diplomatic conflicts with Russia, Israel (America's puppet state), and by extension the UK. The Israel thing is because suddenly they realised that Netanyahu is Netanyahu. They've been ignoring him for 7 years (awfully close a period to someone's presidency...), but now, just in time for Trump to take over, the Obama administration won't stand for Israel for another 3 weeks. It's hilarious. I hope they cut ties with South Korea in a week or something like that. 

But if that isn't so then who should we believe?  That the DNC is incompetent and clicked on a phishing e-mail twice?  Or that someone inside got access to the e-mail account and did it him/herself?

I mean, they hired Podesta. Clearly the brain drain is widespread...

[Pete Svarrior]

Meanwhile, the Russian Embassy in the UK is on point

https://twitter.com/RussianEmbassy/status/814564127230271489

[Lord Dave]

Obama is doing a bunch of dickish things.  I agree with them, mind you, but this smells of retaliation.

And to be honest, I can't blame him.  He spent 8 years being nice, trying to do things, having one of his biggest scandals be an open mike where he says he can stop worrying about reelection and do what he wants, and with all that, gets hammered for everything.  After 8 years of being told that you're a horrible failure, you should leave, your a Muslim, you weren't born in America, and probably a few racial slurs, then watching the nation elect a man who has no political experience (one of the many criticisms of Obama during his first campaign), campaigned purely on vague promises and "Everyone but me and you suck.", and probably giving Obama a headache during the transition, I'd probably fuck him up too.

"Hey, wanna be friends with Russia?  Fuck you Russia."
"Hey, wanna drill on all this wonderful land?  Fuck no, it's a park now."
"Hate the two state solution?  Oh they want the one state solution too? Fine, Israel, I'm done being nice, fuck you." (This was LONG over due)

He's giving Trump an economy that's much better than what he got in 2008 and not only is he still seen as a failure (It didn't go fast enough?  That's your complaint?) but America voted in the kind of person they claim to hate (Rich, selfish, lies, vague promises, outsources, greedy, does what he wants).  The irony is that while Republicans complained Obama did what he wanted, used executive actions liberally, pushed through ACA on a technicality because he could, they elected someone who promises to do the exact same thing.  Obama tells Israel to go fuck itself.  -OMG!  Obama is fucking up America!
Trump tells Mexico/China/Europe go to fuck itself. - YAY!  Stick it to those jerks!

I suspect that if Obama's SS detail could move beyond America, he'd move the fuck out and hope America didn't take the world down with it.

Or at least, that's what I'd want to do.  Which is why I will NEVER be a good president.  After 8 years of what Obama got hit with, I'd be seriously tempted to just nuke the nation and save what's left of the world.

[Fortuna]

You have to be an INTP or INTJ to be a good president. If an insult is true, then it is valid and must be considered. If it isn't true, then it is irrelevant and requires no further thought.

[Pete Svarrior]

I know, I know, it's a Salon article; but it does a pretty good job of summarising the (lack of) evidence that officially led to Obama's totally rational move of trying to start a new cold war

http://www.salon.com/2016/12/31/down-the-rabbit-hole-governments-first-report-on-russian-hack-is-woefully-inadequate/

[George]

Even Rolling Stone is skeptical!

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/something-about-this-russia-story-stinks-w458439

[Pete Svarrior]

Even Rolling Stone is skeptical!

2017 is off to a zany start!

[Lord Dave]

Honestly, I'm not sure what other evidence you could present besides:

"These urls and domains are used by known Russian hackers."  Not like they sign their names on each packet or something.

[Pete Svarrior]

Honestly, I'm not sure what other evidence you could present besides:

"These urls and domains are used by known Russian hackers."  Not like they sign their names on each packet or something.

They aren't known Russian hackers, that's exactly the problem. They made a completely unsubstantiated assertion.

The argument of "These urls and domains are used by known Russian hackers." would be even poorer than what they're actually doing. They're just saying "it's the Russians, trust us, also here are a few factual errors about what happened and some computing 101 tips on how to stay safe online"

But there's one thing you're right about (a thing I already said but whatever): it is immensely difficult to provide evidence to an accusation like this. That's why world leaders don't make accusations like this (not without lengthy investigations leading to multiple high-profile arrests, at least), and that's why they don't provoke potential wars over accusations like this. Obama is, quite literally, attacking his own country. Luckily Russia's response was appropriate: they attributed the idiocy to a butthurt Obama and not to the USA as a whole.

[Lord Dave]

Honestly, I'm not sure what other evidence you could present besides:

"These urls and domains are used by known Russian hackers."  Not like they sign their names on each packet or something.

They aren't known Russian hackers, that's exactly the problem. They made a completely unsubstantiated assertion.

The argument of "These urls and domains are used by known Russian hackers." would be even poorer than what they're actually doing. They're just saying "it's the Russians, trust us, also here are a few factual errors about what happened and some computing 101 tips on how to stay safe online"

That's what I got from the document when they listed all those handles and domains, that they knew they were russians from those.