*

Offline stack

  • *
  • Posts: 3280
    • View Profile
It's funny how an opinion is based on and "backed-up" by some rando who made a TikTok video. I'm sure that guy is representative of the entirety of the Ukraine population.

Why would he need to represent the entire Ukrainian population to have a valid viewpoint?

What makes it valid? An opinion doesn't make for instant validity.

And apparently, if I'm reading your post right, you saying "I don't see any reason to assume that Putin is in the wrong," is supposed to be supported by one rando in a TikTok video? Is this what it has come to?

I mean pretty much any rando could say what this rando says about pretty much any country or population. Couldn't a rando say the exact same thing about Russia?

"Ukraine Russia is so evil, Ukrainian Russian people are so corrupt, so evil, such liars, thieves...The fact that President Biden and his son President Putin and his Oligarchs have corrupt dealings with Ukraine everyone and still get elected gives you a situation as to why Putin is invading NATO and the rest of the world has a problem with the invasion..."

*

Offline markjo

  • *
  • Posts: 6653
  • Zetetic Council runner-up
    • View Profile
I don't see any reason to assume that Putin is in the wrong.


Right, because there is no mafia, corruption or lying going on in Russia. ::)
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. -- Charles Darwin

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

#firePete

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 10066
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
And apparently, if I'm reading your post right, you saying "I don't see any reason to assume that Putin is in the wrong," is supposed to be supported by one rando in a TikTok video? Is this what it has come to?

Actually the TikTok video argues that Putin is in the right. My comment was that I don't see any reason to assume that Putin is in the wrong. These are two different kinds of statements. There is a subtle difference there between the two statements, mine implicitly pointing out that there are a variety of opinions on this topic which does not necessitate that Putin is irremediably in the wrong on the situation.

What makes it valid? An opinion doesn't make for instant validity.
You know the answer to that.
It fits in with what Tom wants to believe and it’s a good troll. It’s just more cherry picking from him, the hell does “4th generation Ukrainian” mean anyway? From his accent I t’s obviously someone who has grown up in the US. One of my great grandparents was Italian. Never met her and gives me zero right to pontificate on going on in Italy. Trolls gotta troll.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

*

Offline stack

  • *
  • Posts: 3280
    • View Profile
And apparently, if I'm reading your post right, you saying "I don't see any reason to assume that Putin is in the wrong," is supposed to be supported by one rando in a TikTok video? Is this what it has come to?

Actually the TikTok video argues that Putin is in the right. My comment was that I don't see any reason to assume that Putin is in the wrong. These are two different kinds of statements. There is a subtle difference there between the two statements, mine implicitly pointing out that there are a variety of opinions on this topic which does not necessitate that Putin is irremediably in the wrong on the situation.

So what you're saying is that there are differences of opinion as to whether it was right or wrong for Putin to invade Ukraine? Apparently, it was previously unclear, until you came along, that some people may assume Putin is in the right and some people may assume he is in the wrong. Well, I guess thanks for sharing your astute insights on the matter.
 

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 10066
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
And apparently, if I'm reading your post right, you saying "I don't see any reason to assume that Putin is in the wrong," is supposed to be supported by one rando in a TikTok video? Is this what it has come to?

Actually the TikTok video argues that Putin is in the right. My comment was that I don't see any reason to assume that Putin is in the wrong. These are two different kinds of statements. There is a subtle difference there between the two statements, mine implicitly pointing out that there are a variety of opinions on this topic which does not necessitate that Putin is irremediably in the wrong on the situation.

So what you're saying is that there are differences of opinion as to whether it was right or wrong for Putin to invade Ukraine? Apparently, it was previously unclear, until you came along, that some people may assume Putin is in the right and some people may assume he is in the wrong. Well, I guess thanks for sharing your astute insights on the matter.

Yes, the difference of an opposite opinion would invalidate the opinion that Putin is in the wrong. With the presence of multiple opinions it cannot be said that Putin is definitely and irredeemably in the wrong.

There are lots of people in Russia and a world power government who support this event, and who don't think that they are in the wrong. You certainly should try to find out their reasoning before you jump to conclusions and make judgment.

*

Offline stack

  • *
  • Posts: 3280
    • View Profile
And apparently, if I'm reading your post right, you saying "I don't see any reason to assume that Putin is in the wrong," is supposed to be supported by one rando in a TikTok video? Is this what it has come to?

Actually the TikTok video argues that Putin is in the right. My comment was that I don't see any reason to assume that Putin is in the wrong. These are two different kinds of statements. There is a subtle difference there between the two statements, mine implicitly pointing out that there are a variety of opinions on this topic which does not necessitate that Putin is irremediably in the wrong on the situation.

So what you're saying is that there are differences of opinion as to whether it was right or wrong for Putin to invade Ukraine? Apparently, it was previously unclear, until you came along, that some people may assume Putin is in the right and some people may assume he is in the wrong. Well, I guess thanks for sharing your astute insights on the matter.

Yes, the difference of an opposite opinion would invalidate the opinion that Putin is in the wrong. With the presence of multiple opinions it cannot be said that Putin is definitely and irredeemably in the wrong.

Are you trying to say that opposing opinions cancel each other out? That neither can be correct or incorrect? Is it a 1-to-1 thing? Or if I have 1 opinion and you have amassed 10 opposing ones from 9 other people, your 10 trumps my 1? I'm trying to get a handle on this as it's not really making any sense.

There are lots of people in Russia and a world power government who support this event, and who don't think that they are in the wrong. You certainly should try to find out their reasoning before you jump to conclusions and make judgment.

What makes you think someone hasn't looked into the reasoning of an opposing opinion?

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 10066
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
Quote from: stack
What makes you think someone hasn't looked into the reasoning of an opposing opinion?

Probably because there are two sides to every story and we are only hearing one side. We know logically that Russian media and Russian government are giving an entirely different narrative which is not "lets be evil!", as is suggested to be the narrative by many in the West.

Quote from: stack
Are you trying to say that opposing opinions cancel each other out? That neither can be correct or incorrect? Is it a 1-to-1 thing? Or if I have 1 opinion and you have amassed 10 opposing ones from 9 other people, your 10 trumps my 1? I'm trying to get a handle on this as it's not really making any sense.

I have no idea that you are mumbling about. I am pointing out that there are multiple sides to a story and that the Russians probably do not think that they are doing bad and evil things unnecessarily.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2022, 10:30:39 PM by Tom Bishop »

*

Offline stack

  • *
  • Posts: 3280
    • View Profile
Russians probably do not think that they are doing bad and evil things unnecessarily.

How would you know this?

And "unnecessarily" is a strange term to be using. It's pretty clear and well documented, even in MSM, why Putin thinks it's "necessary". That has no correlation as to whether something is default bad/evil or not.

In any case, I think liquor purveyors’ opinion trumps your random TikTok guy’s...



Russian vodka pulled from shelves in US, Canada bars, liquor stores: ‘Every small thing makes a difference’
Liquor stores across the U.S. and Canada have started throwing out their stocks of Russian vodka in protest of President Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine, according to reports.

Gotta love Fox News for such in-depth reporting.

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 10066
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
Russians probably do not think that they are doing bad and evil things unnecessarily.

How would you know this?

Did I say that I did? I said probably. Russians probably have justifications for their actions and are not nodding their heads in acceptance that they are bad and evil. It is logical that they have their own narrative for their actions, and that the narrative is not "lets be evil". It is pretty idiotic to argue otherwise actually.

*

Offline Dr Van Nostrand

  • *
  • Posts: 882
  • There may be something to this 'Matrix' stuff...
    • View Profile
Just because some Republicans want to support the expansion of the Soviet Union doesn't mean we want them invading our country. The same is probably true in Ukraine.
My hate for you and everything you stand for is so much deeper than the depths of Shambala that you could probably take the entire Lungmen population down there and back up around twenty million times before you would have sunk to the end of my hate.



Round Earther patiently looking for a better deal...

*

Offline stack

  • *
  • Posts: 3280
    • View Profile
Russians probably do not think that they are doing bad and evil things unnecessarily.

How would you know this?

Did I say that I did? I said probably. Russians probably have justifications for their actions and are not nodding their heads in acceptance that they are bad and evil. It is logical that they have their own narrative for their actions, and that the narrative is not "lets be evil". It is pretty idiotic to argue otherwise actually.

I still don't see what point you're trying to make. That some people may believe that their intentions are justified and not evil? So what? You could say the same thing about the Nazis. You could say the same thing about the US invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq. What's your point? That we shouldn't assume Putin's invasion is "evil-minded". Sure, let's do that. So what? What should we do?

What should we do when Putin starts tacitly threatening Sweden and Finland if they join NATO? Oh wait, he just did. Probably not the first time, but now what should we do?

*

Offline markjo

  • *
  • Posts: 6653
  • Zetetic Council runner-up
    • View Profile
Russians probably have justifications for their actions and are not nodding their heads in acceptance that they are bad and evil. It is logical that they have their own narrative for their actions, and that the narrative is not "lets be evil".
Of course Putin justifies his actions in Ukraine and doesn't think that he's evil.  Then again, Stalin, Hitler and Mao had their justifications for all the people they killed and didn't think that they were evil either.
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. -- Charles Darwin

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

#firePete

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 10066
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
I'm not so sure that the Jews were completely innocent in the Hitler situation.

https://rense.com/general84/declare.htm

    "Few people know the facts about the singular event that helped spark what ultimately became known as World War II - the international Jewish declaration of war on Germany shortly after Adolf Hitler came to power and well before any official German government sanctions or reprisals against Jews were carried out. The March 24, 1933 issue of The Daily Express of London (shown above) described how Jewish leaders, in combination with powerful international Jewish financial interests, had launched a boycott of Germany for the express purpose of crippling her already precarious economy in the hope of bringing down the new Hitler regime."

It is certainly possible that Hitler took things too far in the end. But there are two sides to the beginning of that conflict, and Hitler didn't just randomly decide to imprison the Jews. Apparently the Jews declared a holy war against Germany.

And here in this case you are assuming that Ukraine is innocent, despite the general knowledge that there has been years of conflict with Russia leading up to this.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2022, 12:11:51 AM by Tom Bishop »

*

Offline Fortuna

  • *
  • Posts: 2969
    • View Profile
Conservatives defending Putin is hilarious. He's everything you hate about left-wing politicians only 10x worse.

*

Offline stack

  • *
  • Posts: 3280
    • View Profile
I'm not so sure that the Jews were completely innocent in the Hitler situation.

It is certainly possible that Hitler took things too far in the end.

“It’s certainly possible…”???
Seriously?

I question the reliability of your source narrator…Jeffry Rense, Rense.com:

Rense's radio program and website propagate conspiracy theories, including those of 9/11 conspiracists,[2] ufologists and advocates of the paranormal, the creation of diseases, chemtrails, evidence of advanced ancient technology, emergent energy technologies, and alternative medicine.

Rense's writings and website have been deemed pro-Nazi and antisemitic by the Anti-Defamation League and the Southern Poverty Law Center.[3][4]


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Rense

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 10066
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
I question the reliability of your source narrator…Jeffry Rense, Rense.com:

Rense's radio program and website propagate conspiracy theories, including those of 9/11 conspiracists,[2] ufologists and advocates of the paranormal, the creation of diseases, chemtrails, evidence of advanced ancient technology, emergent energy technologies, and alternative medicine.

Rense's writings and website have been deemed pro-Nazi and antisemitic by the Anti-Defamation League and the Southern Poverty Law Center.[3][4]


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Rense

Yeah, so fake.  ::)



“It’s certainly possible…”???
Seriously?

Typically when your group declares war on another group you run the risk of dying when your opponent responds.

*

Offline markjo

  • *
  • Posts: 6653
  • Zetetic Council runner-up
    • View Profile
I'm pretty sure that Hitler declared war on the Jews first.  Even so, how did that give him the right to invade Poland, France and pretty much the rest of Europe?

How does recognizing 2 breakaway territories (that Putin helped orchestrate) give Putin the right to force regime change in Ukraine despite being a violation of international law?
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. -- Charles Darwin

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.

#firePete

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 10066
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
I'm pretty sure that Hitler declared war on the Jews first.  Even so, how did that give him the right to invade Poland, France and pretty much the rest of Europe?

How does recognizing 2 breakaway territories (that Putin helped orchestrate) give Putin the right to force regime change in Ukraine despite being a violation of international law?

You were taught in school that Hitler was a cartoon villain who made naked acts of aggression and imprisoned and persecuted the Jews for no reason. Do you really think that it happened for absolutely no reason at all?

Per Poland, the Germans claimed that they were being harrassed and finally attacked.

*

Offline Iceman

  • *
  • Posts: 1793
  • where there's smoke there's wires
    • View Profile
Tom out here saying hitler was a little out of line in WWII like it would have been fine for Americans to have gassed every POW and citizen in internment camps because Pearl Harbor happened. Trollolol