Re: FL GOP are homophobic crybabies
« Reply #340 on: April 08, 2022, 01:22:05 PM »
Why not just let them decide later in their lives like others have done when discovering their sexuality?

No-one is suggesting otherwise. That is what everyone here would advocate.
Your trouble is you are conflating the "homosexual agenda" with

Quote
push[ing] a sexuality onto a child to make them into homosexuals, asexuals, bisexuals, trans, or whatever of the 27 genderfluid identities you decide is best for them.

Literally no-one is advocating that. I don't even think that's possible.
The gay agenda, as much as that even exists, is about representation, acceptance and equality.
Kids should grow up knowing that how they feel is OK and accepted, they should see gay role models in popular culture.
As I've said sometimes it feels like that goes a bit too far, but no kids are going to see positive gay role models and think "that sounds good, I got to try me some of that". Because that's not how anything works, no-one consciously chooses their sexuality.

The fact that you believe that some children should grow up feeling unloved or ashamed for who they are betrays your true agenda here.
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Offline Tron

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Re: FL GOP are homophobic crybabies
« Reply #341 on: April 09, 2022, 03:33:08 PM »
i don't mean to jump in late to this convo, but I do think some people can sometimes choose there sexuality or lack thereof. 
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: FL GOP are homophobic crybabies
« Reply #342 on: April 09, 2022, 09:05:58 PM »
Quote from: AllAroundTheWorld
No-one is suggesting otherwise.

Incorrect, stack has been apparently agreeing with the Disney producer that they should make their children's programming as queer as possible.

The gay agenda, as much as that even exists, is about representation, acceptance and equality.

Actually we've seen that teachers were reading books to children with the message that crossdressing was fabulous. This is not mere education of the existence of cross dressers. It is promotion of an ideology to children before they are old enough to make rational decisions.

A Disney producer was inserting as much queerness into the Disney productions as she could in what she termed to be a gay agenda. She was clearly trying to show queerness in an appealing light for children.

Countless advocates and educators are attempting to make the picture of being gay a positive thing, with imagery of happy people under colorful rainbows, wearing colorful clothes or doing something fun. This is not mere emotionless education about the existence of gay people. By inserting such imagery it is an attempt to make it look appealing.

If you are doing something more than educating children, and are promoting it, then you are conditioning children.

i don't mean to jump in late to this convo, but I do think some people can sometimes choose there sexuality or lack thereof.

Gender dysphoria is said to be a mental disorder for many people. This psychiatrist says that it needs to be treated with psychotherapy, not surgery.

https://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2015/06/15145/

Quote
The idea that one’s sex is a feeling, not a fact, has permeated our culture and is leaving casualties in its wake. Gender dysphoria should be treated with psychotherapy, not surgery.

...

Most young boys and girls who come seeking sex-reassignment are utterly different from Jenner. They have no erotic interest driving their quest. Rather, they come with psychosocial issues—conflicts over the prospects, expectations, and roles that they sense are attached to their given sex—and presume that sex-reassignment will ease or resolve them.

The grim fact is that most of these youngsters do not find therapists willing to assess and guide them in ways that permit them to work out their conflicts and correct their assumptions. Rather, they and their families find only “gender counselors” who encourage them in their sexual misassumptions.

...

In fact, gender dysphoria—the official psychiatric term for feeling oneself to be of the opposite sex—belongs in the family of similarly disordered assumptions about the body, such as anorexia nervosa and body dysmorphic disorder. Its treatment should not be directed at the body as with surgery and hormones any more than one treats obesity-fearing anorexic patients with liposuction. The treatment should strive to correct the false, problematic nature of the assumption and to resolve the psychosocial conflicts provoking it. With youngsters, this is best done in family therapy.

The larger issue is the meme itself. The idea that one’s sex is fluid and a matter open to choice runs unquestioned through our culture and is reflected everywhere in the media, the theater, the classroom, and in many medical clinics. It has taken on cult-like features: its own special lingo, internet chat rooms providing slick answers to new recruits, and clubs for easy access to dresses and styles supporting the sex change. It is doing much damage to families, adolescents, and children and should be confronted as an opinion without biological foundation wherever it emerges.

But gird your loins if you would confront this matter. Hell hath no fury like a vested interest masquerading as a moral principle.

About the Author

PAUL MCHUGH

Paul McHugh, MD, is University Distinguished Service Professor of Psychiatry at Johns Hopkins Medical School and the former psychiatrist in chief at Johns Hopkins Hospital. He is the author of The Mind Has Mountains: Reflections on Society and Psychiatry.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2022, 01:25:19 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: FL GOP are homophobic crybabies
« Reply #343 on: April 09, 2022, 10:11:07 PM »
Countless advocates and educators are attempting to make the picture of being gay a positive thing, with imagery of happy people under colorful rainbows, wearing colorful clothes or doing something fun. This is not mere emotionless education about the existence of gay people. By inserting such imagery it is an attempt to make it look appealing.

It really sounds as though you're just jealous that they're having more fun than you.
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Re: FL GOP are homophobic crybabies
« Reply #344 on: April 09, 2022, 10:44:47 PM »
Tumeni, lol.

My main point is I think people have power to choose a sexual activity or life-style (gay, straight, hugh hefnor, etc).   

And I agree we shouldn't "over do" sex-ed and lead the audience...  But I have never seen this done. The Doctor said "everyone has met a transgender boy or girl by now" which I haven't.
 I'm hesitant to think this is a huge issue for the majority of people. 

Organizations like the LGBT movement i've come to respect.  Sometimes society can be grim and they have an ability to lift people's spirits.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2022, 10:52:47 PM by MetaTron »
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Re: FL GOP are homophobic crybabies
« Reply #345 on: April 10, 2022, 01:07:46 AM »
Quote from: MetaTron
My main point is I think people have power to choose a sexual activity or life-style (gay, straight, hugh hefnor, etc).

And my point is that young children do not have the power to make rational decisions. Developing children are accosted by a giant LGBT movement trying to make being gay cool, fun, admirable and who promote crossdressing as fabulous.

This is grooming:




This is grooming:

« Last Edit: April 10, 2022, 01:21:27 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Re: FL GOP are homophobic crybabies
« Reply #346 on: April 10, 2022, 01:18:15 AM »
Quote
My main point is I think people have power to choose a sexual activity or life-style (gay, straight, hugh hefnor, etc).

And my point is that young children do not have the power to make rational decisions. Developing children are accosted by a giant LGBT movement trying to make being gay cool, fun, admirable and who promote crossdressing as fabulous.

This is grooming:

How are you defining "accosted" and "grooming"? Accosted how? What is the results of this "grooming" you mention?

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: FL GOP are homophobic crybabies
« Reply #347 on: April 10, 2022, 04:49:50 AM »
How are you defining "accosted" and "grooming"? Accosted how?

Children are unable to consent to anything, and rely on their parents to do it for them. This is why traditional sexual education classes require parental consent, and why the material is open for parental review before the class is given. Parents also consent to the traditional non-sexual education given in school.

Parents complain that they have not consented to this LGBT sexualization. Certainly, if it wasn't invited by their parents then their child is being accosted by this ideology.

Quote from: stack
What is the results of this "grooming" you mention?

As this is a relatively recent phenomenon, it is difficult to say what the exact result of the mass LGBT indoctrination of children will be. But considering the historic rates of depression and suicide among the LGBT, and increase in pedophilia and sexual perversion, I can only assume that the results of this experiment will be horrifying.

The ideology being pushed onto children now is quite blatant and questionable.

https://www.dragqueenstoryhour.org/













https://www.the-sun.com/lifestyle/788240/gender-neutral-eight-drag-queen-rupauls-drag-race-child-abuse/ -



« Last Edit: April 10, 2022, 05:47:07 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline stack

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Re: FL GOP are homophobic crybabies
« Reply #348 on: April 10, 2022, 06:02:02 AM »
How are you defining "accosted" and "grooming"? Accosted how?

Children are unable to consent to anything, and rely on their parents to do it for them. This is why traditional sexual education classes require parental consent, and why the material is open for parental review before the class is given. Parents also consent to the traditional non-sexual education given in school.

Parents complain that they have not consented to this LGBT sexualization. Certainly, if it wasn't invited by their parents then their child is being accosted by this ideology.

I'm sure some parents have complained. But because some people complain that equals all children are being "accosted"? Every person who complains about something and that something still persists, the complainers' kids are "accosted"? You mean all I have to do is complain to feel "accosted"?

Quote from: stack
What is the results of this "grooming" you mention?

As this is a relatively recent phenomenon, it is difficult to say what the exact result of the mass LGBTQ indoctrination of children will be. But considering the historic rates of depression and suicide among the LGBT, and increase in pedophilia and sexual perversion, I can only assume that the results of this experiment will be horrifying.

What do you mean by "indoctrination"? You mean like religious indoctrination?

The ideology being pushed onto children now is quite blatant and questionable.

You may want to look at something that's been going on for a lot longer than this "indoctrination" you speak of:

High Glitz: The Extravagant World of Child Beauty Pageants Hardcover – September 8, 2009

High Glitz is a close-up and intimate look at America’s child beauty pageants, and in turn our society’s obsession with youth, beauty, fame, and fortune. Susan Anderson’s vibrant portraits of pageant contestants twist notions of sexuality and identity, with a new perspective on this uniquely American subculture.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: FL GOP are homophobic crybabies
« Reply #349 on: April 10, 2022, 06:21:53 AM »
I think Tom's misunderstanding is that being gay is taught.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: FL GOP are homophobic crybabies
« Reply #350 on: April 10, 2022, 08:14:33 AM »
As this is a relatively recent phenomenon, it is difficult to say what the exact result of the mass LGBT indoctrination of children will be. But considering the historic rates of depression and suicide among the LGBT, and increase in pedophilia and sexual perversion, I can only assume that the results of this experiment will be horrifying.

... and you don't think the rates of depression and suicide were connected to the type of repression that you are espousing?

That they might just be due to bullying from folks like you shouting "this will be HORRIFYING", rather than just accepting them as they are?
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Re: FL GOP are homophobic crybabies
« Reply #351 on: April 10, 2022, 02:00:32 PM »
yo rushy please tell me more about how this doesn't have anything to do with the LGBT community
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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: FL GOP are homophobic crybabies
« Reply #352 on: April 10, 2022, 02:02:21 PM »
This is grooming
OK. How are the authors of these books going to kidnap or molest the children who've read it?

Stop misusing words, Tom, it ruins any argument you might have.
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Re: FL GOP are homophobic crybabies
« Reply #353 on: April 10, 2022, 02:40:34 PM »
interesting how proponents of this bill literally never bring up any child abuse statistics. probably because child abuse by a teacher almost never happens.

https://www.acf.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/documents/cb/cm2020.pdf
Quote
The majority (77.2%) of perpetrators are a parent of their victim, 6.6 percent of perpetrators are a relative other than a parent, and 4.2 percent had multiple relationships to their victims. Approximately 4.0 percent (3.8%) of perpetrators have an “other” relationship to their victims. (See table 5–5 and related notes.) According to Appendix D, State Commentary, the NCANDS category of “other” perpetrator relationship includes foster sibling, nonrelative, babysitter, etc.
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: FL GOP are homophobic crybabies
« Reply #354 on: April 10, 2022, 02:45:59 PM »
This is grooming
OK. How are the authors of these books going to kidnap or molest the children who've read it?

Stop misusing words, Tom, it ruins any argument you might have.

Grooming is a form of sexual exploitation. It doesn't necessarily culminate with physical sexual abuse by the groomer. See the definition by the National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children.

https://www.nspcc.org.uk/what-is-child-abuse/types-of-abuse/grooming/



NSPCC says that persuasion to participate in sexual conversations is a form of sexual exploitation:
 


Encouraging children to explore their sexuality and accosting them with sexual propaganda in a school classroom certainly falls under this definition.

Another definition:

https://www.education.vic.gov.au/school/teachers/health/childprotection/Pages/expolitationgrooming.aspx



Predatory conduct = Manipulation. No parental consent. Pro-homosexual, pro-crossdressing, and pro-drag queen propaganda

Prepare for later time = Talking with kids about their sexuality. Exposure of children to sexuality. Promotion of sexuality.

Grooming in this definition is just to prepare a child for sexual activity at a later time. This clearly does not mean that the groomer is preparing the child for sexual activity with the groomer. The article goes on to describe that this can include sexual activity with 'others'. By introducing certain sexual concepts into a child's life before they are able to make rational decisions you are clearly manipulating and sexualizing them; getting a jump start on influencing their sexual life. By a plain reading of the definition this is grooming.

This is also the Australian legal definition:



Another definition describes it as priming a child for sexual activity:

https://www.armstronglegal.com.au/criminal-law/act/offences/sexual-offences/grooming/



Another individual = Can be literally anyone the child chooses to have a relationship with in their life

Prime for sexual activity = Obviously if you are discussing sexuality with a child you are priming them for their sexual life
« Last Edit: April 10, 2022, 05:05:08 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: FL GOP are homophobic crybabies
« Reply #355 on: April 10, 2022, 04:22:19 PM »
Grooming is a form of sexual exploitation. It doesn't necessarily culminate with physical sexual abuse. See the definition by the National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children.

https://www.nspcc.org.uk/what-is-child-abuse/types-of-abuse/grooming/
Uh huh. Have you considered clicking on that "exploitation" link rather than just imagining what it might mean? Replacing one word you don't understand with another does not help your case, it makes it worse.

Allow me:

Child sexual exploitation (CSE) is a type of sexual abuse. When a child or young person is exploited they're given things, like gifts, drugs, money, status and affection, in exchange for performing sexual activities. Children and young people are often tricked into believing they're in a loving and consensual relationship. This is called grooming. They may trust their abuser and not understand that they're being abused.

Very conveniently, this page explains both exploitation and grooming. You really shouldn't use words you don't understand - it's truly the nuclear option for rendering your position null and void.

Encouraging children to explore their sexuality and accosting them with sexual propaganda in a school classroom certainly falls under this definition.
Ahaha, oh wow. Tom, I sincerely hope that one day you return to your nuanced and thought-provoking arguments. Until then, please don't expect to be taken seriously.

"A book is literally the same as forcing kids into a sexual conversation!!!" I wonder, what caused you to lose your edge?

Another definition:

https://www.education.vic.gov.au/school/teachers/health/childprotection/Pages/expolitationgrooming.aspx

[...]

Predatory conduct = Manipulation.
Ah, Tom, such a sophomoric mistake to make! The very same page you're citing provides further clarifiaction whcih completely nukes your attempts at redefining the word. If only you had continued reading! If only you had read the sentences that precede the one you've cherry-picked!

Allow me:

Grooming is when a person engages in predatory conduct to prepare a child or young person for sexual activity at a later time.

[...]

Grooming is now a criminal offence under the Crimes Act 1958. This offence targets predatory conduct undertaken by an adult to prepare a child, under the age of 16, to engage in a sexual activity at a later time.​​

Of course, since this is just an abridged legal definition, we can also refer to the letter of the law. Kids, can you guess whether this aligns with Tom's fantasies?

Another definition describes it as priming a child for sexual activity:

https://www.armstronglegal.com.au/criminal-law/act/offences/sexual-offences/grooming/
Oh boy, I'm sure visiting this link won't reveal that it once again confirms the consensus definition and not yours.

Ah, shit, who'd have thunk it?

Grooming

The charge of grooming a child (intending to make it easier to procure a child to engage in sexual activity outside Australia (whether or not that activity is with the person doing the grooming or someone else)) is a serious offence.

Public policy commands that specialist police teams investigate constantly in the area and allegations are thoroughly prosecuted.
The Offence Of Grooming

Grooming a child to engage in sexual activity outside Australia is a Commonwealth offence and is found at Section 272.15 of the Commonwealth Criminal Code.

The maximum penalty for grooming is imprisonment for 12 years.
What Actions Might Constitute Grooming?

Grooming is typically considered to be any behaviour that an adult individual commits with the intention of making it easier to procure a child under the age of 16 for sexual activity, either with themselves or with another individual. In simple terms, grooming refers to behaviour that primes a child for sexual activity.

So, now that you have provided three independent sources that prove you wrong beyond a reasonable doubt, I firmly ask you that you stop using terms you don't understand, or pretend not to understand. PR&S is part of the upper fora, and you are expected to argue in good faith. Either you are accusing these people of grooming (that is, that they are actively preparing children for sexual abuse, and that they are guilty of this specific criminal offence in many states), or you aren't. If it's the former, you need to immediately present evidence, and it had better be stronger than the shitty excuse you've just presented above.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2022, 04:34:45 PM by Pete Svarrior »
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: FL GOP are homophobic crybabies
« Reply #356 on: April 10, 2022, 04:31:02 PM »
Allow me:

Child sexual exploitation (CSE) is a type of sexual abuse. When a child or young person is exploited they're given things, like gifts, drugs, money, status and affection, in exchange for performing sexual activities.

Teachers encouraging students with affection regarding discussion of sexuality fits the bill there. And yes, sexual conversations is a sexual activity. It is not always physical. This is why "sexual conversations" is listed as a bullet point on the same page further down.

On the same page:



It is clearly classifying sexual conversations as a form of sexual exploitation, despite your forced interpretation that it must always be physical.

Quote
Ahaha, oh wow. Tom, I sincerely hope that one day you return to your nuanced and thought-provoking arguments. Until then, please don't expect to be taken seriously.

"A book is literally the same as forcing kids into a sexual conversation!!!" I wonder, what caused you to lose your edge?

A class on gender identity certainly is enticing them into a conversation about sexual identity. Teachers encourage them to explore their sexuality, create in-class assignments, and discuss it with the children. Teachers throw the propaganda and tell them that they will accept how they feel. This is a conversation.

Quote
Oh boy, I'm sure visiting this link won't reveal that it once again confirms the consensus definition and not yours.

Ah, shit, who'd have thunk it?

Quote
Grooming is typically considered to be any behaviour that an adult individual commits with the intention of making it easier to procure a child under the age of 16 for sexual activity, either with themselves or with another individual. In simple terms, grooming refers to behaviour that primes a child for sexual activity.

Well you're literally wrong. Look at the bolded above.

Any behavior = Anything to encourage sexual behavior

Easier to procure = Sexualizing a child with LGBT propaganda makes the child more susceptible for them to be procured by the LGBT movement, or by other LGBT members seeking LGBT relationships, or perhaps by child predators seeking to exploit the child's interest in sexuality

With another individual = Not necessarily the groomer, can be anyone

Prime for sexual activity = Priming for sexual activity at some later date

See: "In simple terms, grooming refers to behaviour that primes a child for sexual activity."

I'm not sure how clearer it can get.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2022, 08:04:22 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: FL GOP are homophobic crybabies
« Reply #357 on: April 10, 2022, 04:41:24 PM »
This is why "sexual conversations" is listed as a bullet point on the same page further down.
Of course, the page continues to explain why the abuser would try to attain sexual imagery or logs of conversations, so we don't need your completely unqualified guesses for this. Shockingly, your screenshot doesn't include those. I just can't fathom why that would be!

Allow me:

When a child is sexually exploited online they might be persuaded or forced to:
  • send or post sexually explicit images of themselves
  • film or stream sexual activities
  • have sexual conversations.
Once an abuser has images, video or copies of conversations, they might use threats and blackmail to force a young person to take part in other sexual activity. They may also share the images and videos with others or circulate them online.

Gangs use sexual exploitation:
  • to exert power and control
  • for initiation
  • to use sexual violence as a weapon.

Children or young people might be invited to parties or gatherings with others their own age or adults and given drugs and alcohol. They may be assaulted and sexually abused by one person or multiple perpetrators. The sexual assaults and abuse can be violent, humiliating and degrading.

A class on gender identity certainly is enticing them into a conversation about sexual identity.
That's not what "a sexual conversation" is within this law.

Well you're literally wrong. Look at the bolded above.

Any behavior = Anything to encourage sexual behavior

Easier to procure = Sexualizing a child with LGBT propaganda makes the child more susceptible for them to be procured by the LGBT movement and engage in LGBT sexual relationships

With another individual = Not necessarily the groomer, can be anyone

Prime for sexual activity = Priming for sexual activity some later date
Of course, we once again have a complete legal definition, so we don't need your "one thing = another thing [source: dude just trust me]" nonsense. You will be shocked to find out that this once again does not back up your lie.

Remember, I've been trained on these aspects, and you have not. Allow me to repeat myself: you will not continue to lie about this in PR&S. You didn't know what the word means (or pretended not to), which is embarrassing, but we can move past that. Continue making your argument without the senseless misuse of terminology.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2022, 04:54:29 PM by Pete Svarrior »
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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: FL GOP are homophobic crybabies
« Reply #358 on: April 10, 2022, 05:36:11 PM »
Ok, why doesn't Tom tell us what a typical conversaion a teacher promoting homosexuality would have in their classroom. 
Because maybe we're all wrong about Tom?  Maybe he was sexually groomed by a teacher at a young age and he honestly thinks that's what all teachers do?

Or maybe he's an ass.
Either way, I'd love to know how his mind actually envisions modern classroom discussions.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: FL GOP are homophobic crybabies
« Reply #359 on: April 10, 2022, 05:41:21 PM »
Quote
This is why "sexual conversations" is listed as a bullet point on the same page further down.
Of course, the page continues to explain why the abuser would try to attain sexual imagery or logs of conversations, so we don't need your completely unqualified guesses for this. Shockingly, your screenshot doesn't include those. I just can't fathom why that would be!

Allow me:

When a child is sexually exploited online they might be persuaded or forced to:
  • send or post sexually explicit images of themselves
  • film or stream sexual activities
  • have sexual conversations.
Once an abuser has images, video or copies of conversations, they might use threats and blackmail to force a young person to take part in other sexual activity. They may also share the images and videos with others or circulate them online.

I notice that it says "might" there.

And while I don't think teachers are collecting conversations for blackmail, sadly even threats are employed against children regarding this:

https://familypolicyalliance.com/issues/2019/12/12/dont-tell-your-parents/

Quote
Tragically, there was a common factor in each unique story I heard. A mother shared how her daughter was instructed by her teacher, “Don’t tell your parents” about the book you are being assigned. I heard from a teacher aide who has been instructed by school administrators, to remain silent as the school allows a 1st grade boy to use the girls bathroom with other 7-year-old girls present without the permission or knowledge of any of the parents of the students involved.

Another teacher shared her frustration over her high school son being forced to attend a school rally that featured a lesbian and a transgender male sharing how wonderful and fulfilling their chosen lifestyles were. Students were encouraged to cheer and support this mandated school assembly celebrating the diversity of sexual preferences and identities. Disciplinary action awaited any students who refused to attend.

Recently, a mom shared her displeasure over the diversity week at her 11-year-old son’s middle school in an historic, upper-class NJ district. Students and faculty received a white t-shirt with the phrase “I am” printed on the front. The shirts were required to be worn the following day with a personal identity handwritten after “I am”.

Teachers are in a position of authority to where if they tell or instruct a child to do anything there is an implied threat behind it. Children are unable to consent to anything. Even if they agree to it, they still cannot give consent. This is why parental consent is so important.


« Last Edit: April 10, 2022, 06:04:01 PM by Tom Bishop »