Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1020 on: October 04, 2021, 05:36:16 AM »
https://www.eurosurveillance.org/content/10.2807/1560-7917.ES.2021.26.39.2100822#html_fulltext

We present an investigation of a coronavirus disease (COVID-19) outbreak that started from one unidentified COVID-19 patient, with extensive, rapid nosocomial spread among vaccinated, including individuals wearing surgical masks.

"In an Israeli hospital outbreak, 96% vaccination rates (and universal masking) made no difference. And guess who had mild cases? Hint: not the vaccinated.

The paper, published in Eurosurveillance, a journal published by the European Centers for Disease Control, explains that the outbreak rapidly spread among both patients and staff of the hospital’s dialysis unit, the Covid-19 ward, and other wards. At the time, 238 out of 248 of exposed patients and staff had been fully vaccinated with Pfizer’s mRNA vaccine.

Again, the fact that 96 percent of the people in this population had been vaccinated - a level far above early estimates of the percentages required for herd immunity - apparently made no difference.

Further, all patients and staff were required to wear surgical masks when they were in the same room, and staff on the Covid-19 unit wore N95 masks and face shields.

Ultimately, 39 out of the 238 exposed vaccinated people (16 percent) were infected, along with 3 out of 10 unvaccinated people - a difference that doesn’t reach statistical significance because the unvaccinated group is too small."

As the authors explained:

“This communication… challenges the assumption that high universal vaccination rates will lead to herd immunity and prevent COVID-19 outbreaks… In the outbreak described here, 96.2% of the exposed population was vaccinated. Infection advanced rapidly (many cases became symptomatic within 2 days of exposure), and viral load was high.”

*

Offline Lord Dave

  • *
  • Posts: 6537
  • Grumpy old man.
    • View Profile
Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1021 on: October 04, 2021, 05:50:17 AM »
Israel never got to 96%.  Their highest was like 75% of eligable people. ( So anyone under 18 is not counted)
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

Offline Action80

  • *
  • Posts: 1119
    • View Profile
Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1022 on: October 04, 2021, 10:00:20 AM »
Israel never got to 96%.  Their highest was like 75% of eligable people. ( So anyone under 18 is not counted)
In one hospital in Israel, it was 96 percent.

Do yourself and everybody else a huge freaking favor and just stop posting. You cannot even read for christ's sake.

*

Offline Lord Dave

  • *
  • Posts: 6537
  • Grumpy old man.
    • View Profile
Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1023 on: October 04, 2021, 10:13:40 AM »
Israel never got to 96%.  Their highest was like 75% of eligable people. ( So anyone under 18 is not counted)
In one hospital in Israel, it was 96 percent.

Do yourself and everybody else a huge freaking favor and just stop posting. You cannot even read for christ's sake.

Ah, you're right.  Appologies.

Which makes the post less concerning.  We know it was the delta varient.  We know people can still get sick.
But 16% transmission rate in a hospital is not bad for it.  30% for unvaxxed people tho.  Thats pretty big, no?  Double.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

*

Online Rama Set

  • *
  • Posts: 8652
  • Round and round...
    • View Profile
Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1024 on: October 04, 2021, 10:27:45 AM »
Israel never got to 96%.  Their highest was like 75% of eligable people. ( So anyone under 18 is not counted)
In one hospital in Israel, it was 96 percent.

Do yourself and everybody else a huge freaking favor and just stop posting. You cannot even read for christ's sake.

Ah, you're right.  Appologies.

Which makes the post less concerning.  We know it was the delta varient.  We know people can still get sick.
But 16% transmission rate in a hospital is not bad for it.  30% for unvaxxed people tho.  Thats pretty big, no?  Double.

This report is all in all pretty small with no discussion of the medical history of the infected. Tough to draw any firm conclusions from it. But yeah, in the case that this is a statistically representative sample, 84% efficacy is not far from the reported number.
Th*rk is the worst person on this website.

Offline Action80

  • *
  • Posts: 1119
    • View Profile
Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1025 on: October 04, 2021, 12:01:32 PM »
Israel never got to 96%.  Their highest was like 75% of eligable people. ( So anyone under 18 is not counted)
In one hospital in Israel, it was 96 percent.

Do yourself and everybody else a huge freaking favor and just stop posting. You cannot even read for christ's sake.

Ah, you're right.  Appologies.

Which makes the post less concerning.  We know it was the delta varient.  We know people can still get sick.
But 16% transmission rate in a hospital is not bad for it.  30% for unvaxxed people tho.  Thats pretty big, no?  Double.
Demonstrating your fauz apology to be a faux apology is typical.

What part of "a difference that doesn’t reach statistical significance because the unvaccinated group is too small," eludes you?

No difference in viral load either.

Makes one wonder why the huge push for making this vaccine mandatory.

If you get it, it doesn't prevent you from catching the disease or spreading the virus.

If you get the virus, you will maintain the same viral load.

Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1026 on: October 04, 2021, 12:38:01 PM »
Question: are the antibodies produced by the immune system, in response to the cmRNA vaccines (or the adenovirus vaccines), specifically against Sars-CoV-2? The answer might surprise everyone.

The existence of isomer antibodies is now part of modern genetics and immunology:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12610298/

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9217014/

Is the genetic code used for the cmRNA vaccines identical to the genome for Sars-CoV-2? The answer is no.

https://web.archive.org/web/20210111092707/https://berthub.eu/articles/posts/reverse-engineering-source-code-of-the-biontech-pfizer-vaccine/

The nucleobase URACIL (U) has been 100% replaced by the nucleoside PSEUDOURIDINE (Ψ) (it is also called Pseudouracil), an isomer of Uridine.

But Ψ has different chemical/biological properties than U.

"Given the fact that pseudouridylation endows the modified uridine with chemical properties that are distinct from those of all other known nucleotides, introducing Ψ(s) into an RNA will likely alter its function.

Therefore, Ψ has chemical properties that are distinct from that of uridine."

Then, the aminoacids produced by this genetic code (using Ψ) will have a different chirality/configuration, leading to proteins with a distinct chirality, as opposed to "normal" aminoacids obtained through the genetic code of Sars-CoV-2 with U (Uracil).

But then, the antibodies produced by the immune system will be isomeric as well.

That is, the antibodies manufactured by the immune system, in response to the cmRNA vaccines, will not be fabricated specifically for Sars-CoV-2.

An even more important question: what is going to happen should a pathogenic agent with a genetic code featuring Pseudouridine be released to cause another pandemic?
« Last Edit: October 04, 2021, 01:09:32 PM by sandokhan »

*

Offline Lord Dave

  • *
  • Posts: 6537
  • Grumpy old man.
    • View Profile
Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1027 on: October 04, 2021, 03:21:22 PM »
Israel never got to 96%.  Their highest was like 75% of eligable people. ( So anyone under 18 is not counted)
In one hospital in Israel, it was 96 percent.

Do yourself and everybody else a huge freaking favor and just stop posting. You cannot even read for christ's sake.

Ah, you're right.  Appologies.

Which makes the post less concerning.  We know it was the delta varient.  We know people can still get sick.
But 16% transmission rate in a hospital is not bad for it.  30% for unvaxxed people tho.  Thats pretty big, no?  Double.
Demonstrating your fauz apology to be a faux apology is typical.

What part of "a difference that doesn’t reach statistical significance because the unvaccinated group is too small," eludes you?

No difference in viral load either.

Makes one wonder why the huge push for making this vaccine mandatory.

If you get it, it doesn't prevent you from catching the disease or spreading the virus.

If you get the virus, you will maintain the same viral load.
The answer is rather simple isn't it?
To reduce the risk of serious symptoms if you get it.  (PPE is to reduce the risk of getting it)

Lets say 2/100 people who get corona have to go to the hospital.  Of those 2, one requires a ventelator.  And half the time they die.
So you have a .5% chance of death. 
Your local hospital services 100,000 people(so 100k people live nearby) and has 10 beds for ventelator patients.

If 50% of people get sick, 25,000 people will be hospitalized.  12,500 will require ventelators.  6,250 will die.

Even if this happens over a year, that hospital is going to run out of ventelators.  People will die from lack of care.

But if we can reduce the hospitalization down 75% with the vaccine, we have a much better chance.  And thats the point.


To put it another way...

You sound like people who fought against seatbelts in the 70s.  Did they prevent all deaths?  No.  Did they cause issues like being trapped in your car?  Sometimes, yes.  Did it help reduce deaths?  Yes.  Add in crumple zones, air bags, and other safety features and deaths just keep dropping. 

And that is the point.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

Offline Action80

  • *
  • Posts: 1119
    • View Profile
Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1028 on: October 04, 2021, 03:47:59 PM »
Israel never got to 96%.  Their highest was like 75% of eligable people. ( So anyone under 18 is not counted)
In one hospital in Israel, it was 96 percent.

Do yourself and everybody else a huge freaking favor and just stop posting. You cannot even read for christ's sake.

Ah, you're right.  Appologies.

Which makes the post less concerning.  We know it was the delta varient.  We know people can still get sick.
But 16% transmission rate in a hospital is not bad for it.  30% for unvaxxed people tho.  Thats pretty big, no?  Double.
Demonstrating your fauz apology to be a faux apology is typical.

What part of "a difference that doesn’t reach statistical significance because the unvaccinated group is too small," eludes you?

No difference in viral load either.

Makes one wonder why the huge push for making this vaccine mandatory.

If you get it, it doesn't prevent you from catching the disease or spreading the virus.

If you get the virus, you will maintain the same viral load.
The answer is rather simple isn't it?
To reduce the risk of serious symptoms if you get it.  (PPE is to reduce the risk of getting it)

Lets say 2/100 people who get corona have to go to the hospital.  Of those 2, one requires a ventelator.  And half the time they die.
So you have a .5% chance of death. 
Your local hospital services 100,000 people(so 100k people live nearby) and has 10 beds for ventelator patients.

If 50% of people get sick, 25,000 people will be hospitalized.  12,500 will require ventelators.  6,250 will die.

Even if this happens over a year, that hospital is going to run out of ventelators.  People will die from lack of care.

But if we can reduce the hospitalization down 75% with the vaccine, we have a much better chance.  And thats the point.


To put it another way...

You sound like people who fought against seatbelts in the 70s.  Did they prevent all deaths?  No.  Did they cause issues like being trapped in your car?  Sometimes, yes.  Did it help reduce deaths?  Yes.  Add in crumple zones, air bags, and other safety features and deaths just keep dropping. 

And that is the point.
Seatbelts did not reduce deaths.

That trendline has remained relatively steady over the past 70 years.

Deaths do not keep on dropping.

If you really wanted to reduce fatalities in any form of accident, helmets would be made mandatory regardless of the method of travel.

Wearing a mask does not reduce the chances of getting the virus.

That is the biggest line of bullshit ever uttered here on this forum.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2021, 05:13:21 PM by Action80 »

*

Online Iceman

  • *
  • Posts: 1356
  • where there's smoke there's wires
    • View Profile
Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1029 on: October 04, 2021, 05:03:53 PM »
I'm positive you have the stats to support the statement that seatbelts did not reduce deaths

Offline Action80

  • *
  • Posts: 1119
    • View Profile
Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1030 on: October 04, 2021, 05:11:13 PM »
I'm positive you have the stats to support the statement that seatbelts did not reduce deaths
Look it up yourself.

Don't take my word for it.

The trendline for number of motor vehicle fatalities has remained relatively unchanged over the past 70 years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in_U.S._by_year
« Last Edit: October 04, 2021, 05:12:45 PM by Action80 »

*

Offline Lord Dave

  • *
  • Posts: 6537
  • Grumpy old man.
    • View Profile
Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1031 on: October 04, 2021, 05:19:04 PM »
Seatbelts did not reduce deaths.

That trendline has remained relatively steady over the past 70 years.

I'm positive you have the stats to support the statement that seatbelts did not reduce deaths
Look it up yourself.

Don't take my word for it.

The trendline for number of motor vehicle fatalities has remained relatively unchanged over the past 70 years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in_U.S._by_year

https://www.statista.com/statistics/184607/deaths-by-motor-vehicle-related-injuries-in-the-us-since-1950/
No.
Also:
"From 1979 to 2005, the number of deaths per year decreased 14.97% while the number of deaths per capita decreased by 35.46%"

Its at this point that i see now that you are a waste of space on this forum.  If something as simple and universally agreed upon as seatbelts is beyond you, then what hope do you have at anything more complex like viruses and vaccines?  No... You can't be reasoned with.  Your mind is like a rock: impenetrable.  What is there can never be changed or removed.  You will never know anything more than what you knew before.  You will never change.   So off to ignore you go.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

Offline Action80

  • *
  • Posts: 1119
    • View Profile
Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1032 on: October 04, 2021, 05:24:34 PM »
Seatbelts did not reduce deaths.

That trendline has remained relatively steady over the past 70 years.

I'm positive you have the stats to support the statement that seatbelts did not reduce deaths
Look it up yourself.

Don't take my word for it.

The trendline for number of motor vehicle fatalities has remained relatively unchanged over the past 70 years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in_U.S._by_year

https://www.statista.com/statistics/184607/deaths-by-motor-vehicle-related-injuries-in-the-us-since-1950/
No.
Also:
"From 1979 to 2005, the number of deaths per year decreased 14.97% while the number of deaths per capita decreased by 35.46%"

Its at this point that i see now that you are a waste of space on this forum.  If something as simple and universally agreed upon as seatbelts is beyond you, then what hope do you have at anything more complex like viruses and vaccines?  No... You can't be reasoned with.  Your mind is like a rock: impenetrable.  What is there can never be changed or removed.  You will never know anything more than what you knew before.  You will never change.   So off to ignore you go.
Great, terrific.

What I stated is fact.

The trendline for fatalities has remained consistent over 70 years.

Comparing seatblets to vaccination is just one big heaping dung pile of reasoning that is as idiotic as can be.

Per capita death rate is not necessarily attributable to seatbelt use.

Could just as well be less drug and alcohol use behind the wheel.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2021, 06:41:07 PM by Action80 »

*

Online Rama Set

  • *
  • Posts: 8652
  • Round and round...
    • View Profile
Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1033 on: October 04, 2021, 08:16:20 PM »
A little FYI, that the risk of myocarditis from COVID vaccines is likely much lower than initially thought:

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-preprint-myocarditiswithdrawn-idUSL1N2QX1WS?
Th*rk is the worst person on this website.

Offline scomato

  • *
  • Posts: 112
    • View Profile
Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1034 on: October 04, 2021, 11:30:43 PM »
 

delete
« Last Edit: October 04, 2021, 11:32:44 PM by scomato »

Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1035 on: October 05, 2021, 09:28:51 AM »
I'm positive you have the stats to support the statement that seatbelts did not reduce deaths
Look it up yourself.

Don't take my word for it.

The trendline for number of motor vehicle fatalities has remained relatively unchanged over the past 70 years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in_U.S._by_year
Well, when you're right, you're right.
33,186 deaths in 1950, 36,56 in 2018.
Case closed!


...except of course you're ignoring that over that period car use went up 7 times and the population more than doubled.
And you're ignoring the big rise in deaths from 1950 to 1980 which has been going down ever since despite the continued increase in population and car usage. Are seatbelts solely responsible for that? No, cars have got safer in lot of other ways too with better design and testing. But it's undoubtably a factor

I can't tell if you're just being dishonest here or are terrible at analysing data.
"On a very clear and chilly day it is possible to see Lighthouse Beach from Lovers Point and vice versa...Upon looking into the telescope I can see children running in and out of the water, splashing and playing. I can see people sun bathing at the shore
- An excerpt from the account of the Bishop Experiment. My emphasis

Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1036 on: October 05, 2021, 10:34:16 AM »

Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1037 on: October 05, 2021, 11:56:02 AM »
Lethal antibodies: REGN10987 and B38

https://assets.researchsquare.com/files/rs-612103/v2_covered.pdf?c=1623875739

Pathogenic antibodies induced by spike proteins of
COVID-19 and SARS-CoV viruses

https://web.archive.org/web/20210901043025/https://www.theepochtimes.com/why-is-covid-so-severe_3970589.html

https://web.archive.org/web/20210901062152/https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00149-1 (rogue antibodies)

However, the immune system will also produce isomeric REGN10987 and B38 antibodies in response to the cmRNA vaccines.


Offline Action80

  • *
  • Posts: 1119
    • View Profile
Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1038 on: October 05, 2021, 11:57:05 AM »
I'm positive you have the stats to support the statement that seatbelts did not reduce deaths
Look it up yourself.

Don't take my word for it.

The trendline for number of motor vehicle fatalities has remained relatively unchanged over the past 70 years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in_U.S._by_year
Well, when you're right, you're right.
33,186 deaths in 1950, 36,56 in 2018.
Case closed!


...except of course you're ignoring that over that period car use went up 7 times and the population more than doubled.
And you're ignoring the big rise in deaths from 1950 to 1980 which has been going down ever since despite the continued increase in population and car usage. Are seatbelts solely responsible for that? No, cars have got safer in lot of other ways too with better design and testing. But it's undoubtably a factor

I can't tell if you're just being dishonest here or are terrible at analysing data.
I ignored nothing and was dishonest about nothing.

You, like the other, offer up some idiotic comparison between the legislated use of seatbelts and dictatorial mandates concerning medical treatment, as if it is somehow relevant.

It isn't somehow relevant, never will be somehow relevant, and I gave it the non-relevant treatment it deserved.

Offline Action80

  • *
  • Posts: 1119
    • View Profile
Re: Coronavirus Vaccine and You
« Reply #1039 on: October 05, 2021, 11:58:17 AM »
Lethal antibodies: REGN10987 and B38

https://assets.researchsquare.com/files/rs-612103/v2_covered.pdf?c=1623875739

Pathogenic antibodies induced by spike proteins of
COVID-19 and SARS-CoV viruses

https://web.archive.org/web/20210901043025/https://www.theepochtimes.com/why-is-covid-so-severe_3970589.html

https://web.archive.org/web/20210901062152/https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00149-1 (rogue antibodies)

However, the immune system will also produce isomeric REGN10987 and B38 antibodies in response to the cmRNA vaccines.
Define "cmRNA," please.