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Offline Tau

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The Zetetic Council
« on: December 30, 2013, 01:39:55 AM »
The First Zetetic Council of the Flat Earth Society has been created. It consists of Tom Bishop, Roundy, Thork, Secret User, and myself. This, of course, begs the question: what is the Zetetic Council? I know some people seem to have well-defined ideas about this, but it ought to be made official.

So, the goals of this thread are to determine:
  • The purpose of the Zetetic Council
  • The responsibilities, expectations, and rights of individual members
  • The length of the council member's terms of office
  • Protocol for future elections
  • Protocol for impeachment and resigning
  • Anything else I haven't thought of

Thoughts?
« Last Edit: December 30, 2013, 02:37:49 AM by Tausami »
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Offline jroa

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Re: The Zetetic Council
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2013, 01:47:23 AM »
I think that the first thing the council needs to do is to determine what their job entitles, since I could not get their job descriptions to be decided before everyone rushed to elect people.  But, what do I know?

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Offline Tau

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Re: The Zetetic Council
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2013, 01:49:58 AM »
I think that the first thing the council needs to do is to determine what their job entitles, since I could not get their job descriptions to be decided before everyone rushed to elect people.  But, what do I know?

Well, that's what this thread is for. I feel like deciding that should be the job of the society as a whole and not just those we elected
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Offline Roundy

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Re: The Zetetic Council
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2013, 04:54:49 AM »
I've been wondering this as well.  If you all ever figure out what it is that you elected me to do, please let me know.
Dr. Frank is a physicist. He says it's impossible. So it's impossible.
My friends, please remember Tom said this the next time you fall into the trap of engaging him, and thank you. :)

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Re: The Zetetic Council
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2013, 05:17:59 AM »
To begin with, I suggest that you all give yourselves pompous titles in your personal texts.  Something like "Noble Member of the Zetetic Council," "Most Exalted Member of the Zetetic Council," or in Thork's case, "Terrible Member of the Zetetic Council."  It should get you into the right mindset to run this society.

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Offline Roundy

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Re: The Zetetic Council
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2013, 06:23:52 AM »
To begin with, I suggest that you all give yourselves pompous titles in your personal texts.  Something like "Noble Member of the Zetetic Council," "Most Exalted Member of the Zetetic Council," or in Thork's case, "Terrible Member of the Zetetic Council."  It should get you into the right mindset to run this society.

Okay, done.  Now what?
Dr. Frank is a physicist. He says it's impossible. So it's impossible.
My friends, please remember Tom said this the next time you fall into the trap of engaging him, and thank you. :)

Re: The Zetetic Council
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2013, 11:22:49 AM »
http://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=850.0

Most of the point was written here. It was largely missed by most people. Not sure if the point or the thread was missed so to double check heres the link.

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Offline Tau

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Re: The Zetetic Council
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2013, 05:37:13 PM »
Thanks for the link. I think we're pretty much all in agreement that the admins run the forum and the council runs the society itself. That takes care of the purpose.

Now for rights, responsibilities, etc. I propose that we be required to check into the forum at least once a week barring unforeseen circumstances (or vacations, or finals, or whatever). We should have to be active members of the community.

There should be two boards. One secret for general discussions, and one public for voting. We should be able to speak freely, but when we vote everyone should know who is voting for what.

I like the idea of a tier system based on popularity. Secret User and I would be the bottom tier, because we got the fewest votes. Our term of office should be ~4 months. The next tier would be Roundy and Thork, who get ~8 months, and the final tier should be Tom, who gets a year. Maybe we can call Tom the president or something.
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Offline Tintagel

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Re: The Zetetic Council
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2013, 06:14:05 PM »
To begin with, I suggest that you all give yourselves pompous titles in your personal texts.  Something like "Noble Member of the Zetetic Council," "Most Exalted Member of the Zetetic Council," or in Thork's case, "Terrible Member of the Zetetic Council."  It should get you into the right mindset to run this society.

I have to say, and admittedly I'm a moody bitch today so take this with a grain of salt, but doesn't this make the zetetic council look like a joke?  Is it a joke?  I had been under the impression that it isn't. 

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Offline Shane

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Re: The Zetetic Council
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2013, 06:16:56 PM »
Tintagel, I believe Saddam was poking fun at the old forum's "council" members.
Quote from: Rushy
How do you know you weren't literally given metaphorical wings?

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Offline Tintagel

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Re: The Zetetic Council
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2013, 06:26:33 PM »
Tintagel, I believe Saddam was poking fun at the old forum's "council" members.

I see, and that makes sense, but now the council members have farcical titles in their Personal Text and I'm concerned it makes us look less serious.  Some of us are perhaps less serious, but I'm not, and I don't think the public image of the council should be either.  Just my (admittedly moody and bitchy) opinion.

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Offline Tau

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Re: The Zetetic Council
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2013, 08:10:17 PM »
Don't worry, we'll change it to something more official soon. Nobody is feeling too serious at the moment, I think.
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Offline Tau

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Re: The Zetetic Council
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2013, 10:03:28 PM »
So should we have a private board? Or should we let the public see what's being discussed? I guess we should decide that and then either keep discussing here or move it to the appropriate board.

I think we should have both. Elections should be public, people ought to know who votes for what. But discussions should be behind closed doors.

And this should be discussed here. Everyone has a right to have input.
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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: The Zetetic Council
« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2013, 12:15:36 AM »
Is there a need for secrecy?
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Offline Tau

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Re: The Zetetic Council
« Reply #14 on: December 31, 2013, 12:31:41 AM »
Is there a need for secrecy?

There's no need, I suppose. But the admins and mods have always had their secret fora. Even the editors had a secret board. I assume you have a secret board of your own. There's really no need for that, either. But I do think that things get done more efficiently when nobody is looking over your shoulders.

Of course, I also don't feel particularly strongly about this. If people disagree, that's fine with me.
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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: The Zetetic Council
« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2013, 12:52:49 AM »
There's no need, I suppose. But the admins and mods have always had their secret fora.
I'd argue that there's a difference. Forum staff executes (and, less often, forms) the rules of the forum. We're supposed to rely on the rules first, and on personal judgement second. Often, this necessitates communicating with others to figure out whether or not Poster X really deserves a ban. If the forum staff had to discuss other members' behaviours publicly, people would be very quick to take exceptions to it. That's my justification for secrecy there.

Even the editors had a secret board.
Yeah, that was a mistake of mine. It resulted in changes being discussed only within the editor clique and brought forth things that did not meet with popular approval. That's why this forum doesn't have an editor forum, or even an "official" position of an editor - anyone can ask for a wiki account and they'll get one. As long as they edit in good faith, there should be no issue. Parsifal even had an idea of integrating logins between TFES sites so that people's forum logins work for the Wiki etc, but that probably won't happen soon, if at all. But yes, the editors weren't transparent. Mea culpa, this is now fixed.

I assume you have a secret board of your own. There's really no need for that, either. But I do think that things get done more efficiently when nobody is looking over your shoulders.
See above. It's because we deal with people's personal cases that this is actually necessary. Anything that doesn't need to be hidden, we tend to bring up in S&C.

Don't take me wrong, I'm not trying to block the idea of a private Council forum. However, I personally feel like things like this should be justified.
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Offline Tau

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Re: The Zetetic Council
« Reply #16 on: December 31, 2013, 02:27:52 AM »
Even the editors had a secret board.
Yeah, that was a mistake of mine. It resulted in changes being discussed only within the editor clique and brought forth things that did not meet with popular approval. That's why this forum doesn't have an editor forum, or even an "official" position of an editor - anyone can ask for a wiki account and they'll get one. As long as they edit in good faith, there should be no issue. Parsifal even had an idea of integrating logins between TFES sites so that people's forum logins work for the Wiki etc, but that probably won't happen soon, if at all. But yes, the editors weren't transparent. Mea culpa, this is now fixed.

Don't take me wrong, I'm not trying to block the idea of a private Council forum. However, I personally feel like things like this should be justified.

No, you have a valid point. The forum should probably be public unless someone has reasoning I haven't thought of.
That's how far the horizon is, not how far you can see.

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Re: The Zetetic Council
« Reply #17 on: December 31, 2013, 03:02:49 AM »
I tried to say earlier that it should all be public but my net went down. The secrecy is kinda what split the old forum. It would give the impression that the council was an elite group of forum members. I was under the impression that the council are to source outside of the forums and to guide people on the forums in the upper forum.
Contacting people and running media assoiated with the FES.
Maybe a YouTube channel (that's why I wanted rooster on it if she was willing). And spreading the word. Their primary goal should be attracting new users and having sensible debate (a reason why I back thork).

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: The Zetetic Council
« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2013, 03:48:26 AM »
So are we going to have a separate, public board or continue posting in this thread?
We can just chuck all Council-related threads into the new board whenever we make it anyway, so you can continue posting in this thread. I was thinking we should let people talk things through before finalising this, but if the Council is happy I can set it up at any time.
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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: The Zetetic Council
« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2013, 04:06:27 AM »
Also, I set up a membergroup for you guys. Enjoy your pretty colours in Who's Online!
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