Opposite sides viewing the same planet.
« on: March 29, 2020, 04:35:41 PM »
So I'm new to all this but I have a question. In the Flat Earth model at some point in the day/night cycles there must be two cities that are on opposite sides of the disc or globe that are both at the same time in "night time" if we're a disc that has planets rotating above us. Then these two opposite points should be able to see the same planets at the same time. If we're a globe they should not? has this experiment or anything like it ever been carried out?

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Opposite sides viewing the same planet.
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2020, 11:25:06 AM »
Unfortunately, your assumptions for FET are not very representative of any current model.
Read the FAQ before asking your question - chances are we already addressed it.
Follow the Flat Earth Society on Twitter and Facebook!

If we are not speculating then we must assume

Re: Opposite sides viewing the same planet.
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2020, 03:25:01 PM »
This Screen shot is taken from a gif on the Flat Earth Wiki FAQ website as is the following quote under the physics and cosmology section.

"Planets (from Ancient Greek ἀστὴρ πλανήτης [astēr planētēs, "wandering star"], or just πλανήτης [planḗtēs, "wanderer"]) are orbiting astronomical objects. The Earth is not a planet by definition, as it sits at the centre of our solar system above which the planets and the Sun revolve."

So the question remains, if somewhere on the west coast of Australia and the East Coast of Brazil looked up in the night sky, like they both are in that image, should they not see the same planet(s) if were flat? And if we're round they would see different planets? just trying to understand better

totallackey

Re: Opposite sides viewing the same planet.
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2020, 03:33:36 PM »
This Screen shot is taken from a gif on the Flat Earth Wiki FAQ website as is the following quote under the physics and cosmology section.

"Planets (from Ancient Greek ἀστὴρ πλανήτης [astēr planētēs, "wandering star"], or just πλανήτης [planḗtēs, "wanderer"]) are orbiting astronomical objects. The Earth is not a planet by definition, as it sits at the centre of our solar system above which the planets and the Sun revolve."

So the question remains, if somewhere on the west coast of Australia and the East Coast of Brazil looked up in the night sky, like they both are in that image, should they not see the same planet(s) if were flat? And if we're round they would see different planets? just trying to understand better
Well, I just went to https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/sunearth.html?iso=20200330T2128
and added 6 hours to the map.



I am unsure if the screenshot you captured from the wiki is accurate in its depiction of the East Coast of Brazil and the West Coast of Australia having the same darkness levels at the same time in order to even perceive stars at the same relative (i.e., GMT) time.

Re: Opposite sides viewing the same planet.
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2020, 03:45:50 PM »
Okay but now we're arguing semantics. Here is the east coast of Australia and the West Coast of Ecuador/Colombia. the point still stands could be not see the same planets from these two points if were flat and if were round we should see different
https://www.timeanddate.com/scripts/sunmap.php?iso=20200330T0938 (a link to the picture it was too large a file to post)

totallackey

Re: Opposite sides viewing the same planet.
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2020, 03:51:47 PM »
Okay but now we're arguing semantics. Here is the east coast of Australia and the West Coast of Ecuador/Colombia. the point still stands could be not see the same planets from these two points if were flat and if were round we should see different
https://www.timeanddate.com/scripts/sunmap.php?iso=20200330T0938 (a link to the picture it was too large a file to post)
I am not trying to argue semantics.

Are you going to settle for which coasts you would like to analyze?

Do you want to examine the West Cost of Australia and the East Coast of South America (at the same relative time) or the East Coast of Australia and the West Coast of South America?

As far as the picture goes and the country comparison you offer, I would surmise there might by some difference in the objects one would see overhead the further south you travel. The East Coast of residents of Australia are not at the same latitude as those of the South American countries you mention.

That would be the only issue.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2020, 03:56:17 PM by totallackey »

Re: Opposite sides viewing the same planet.
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2020, 03:54:31 PM »
well you proved that the East coast of brazil and the West coast of Australia was not viable which I agreed on. however the West Coast of Colombia/Ecuador and the East Coast of australia is viable, based on the same source that you used earlier, this link https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/sunearth.html?month=3&day=30&year=2020&hour=9&min=38&sec=0&n=&ntxt=&earth=0

can we discuss this please

totallackey

Re: Opposite sides viewing the same planet.
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2020, 03:57:04 PM »
well you proved that the East coast of brazil and the West coast of Australia was not viable which I agreed on. however the West Coast of Colombia/Ecuador and the East Coast of australia is viable, based on the same source that you used earlier, this link https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/sunearth.html?month=3&day=30&year=2020&hour=9&min=38&sec=0&n=&ntxt=&earth=0

can we discuss this please
Sure, we can discuss it.

What do you see as the issue?

Re: Opposite sides viewing the same planet.
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2020, 04:06:25 PM »
if we're a disc then people in those two areas, should be able to see the same planets and stars. if we're a globe we would see different skies?
« Last Edit: March 30, 2020, 04:15:34 PM by phil@western »

totallackey

Re: Opposite sides viewing the same planet.
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2020, 04:20:08 PM »
if we're a disc then people in those two areas, should be able to see the same planets and stars. if we're a globe we would see different skies?
I don't think your stated point would be true for both round or flat.

I believe the only issue present for what objects are visible at night and at what angle they occupy over our heads is the latitude of the viewer and not the longitude.

In other words, at the same relative level of darkness, and at the same relative time, persons on the East Coast of Australia and the West Coast of South America looking overhead would see the same natural objects in the skies.

Re: Opposite sides viewing the same planet.
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2020, 04:46:44 PM »
I understand your point but it's not true. if you have two points on opposite sides of a globe they will not see the same skies thats the point here

Re: Opposite sides viewing the same planet.
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2020, 04:53:47 PM »
This Screen shot is taken from a gif on the Flat Earth Wiki FAQ website as is the following quote under the physics and cosmology section.

"Planets (from Ancient Greek ἀστὴρ πλανήτης [astēr planētēs, "wandering star"], or just πλανήτης [planḗtēs, "wanderer"]) are orbiting astronomical objects. The Earth is not a planet by definition, as it sits at the centre of our solar system above which the planets and the Sun revolve."

So the question remains, if somewhere on the west coast of Australia and the East Coast of Brazil looked up in the night sky, like they both are in that image, should they not see the same planet(s) if were flat? And if we're round they would see different planets? just trying to understand better

the flat earth model fails so often its hard to beleive anyone thinks its true but they do  they just  make up something to explain the  failure


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Offline Tumeni

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Re: Opposite sides viewing the same planet.
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2020, 05:02:00 PM »
The East Coast of residents of Australia are not at the same latitude as those of the South American countries you mention.

Yet even the term "latitude" has no meaning when applied to a flat earth.

It's measured in degrees, so there must be an angle drawn somewhere between two lines, such that the lines are separated by degrees of latitude.

In RE, the lines are radials from the centre of the globe to the surface.

Where would you draw them on a flat earth?
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Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
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Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

totallackey

Re: Opposite sides viewing the same planet.
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2020, 10:25:35 AM »
I understand your point but it's not true. if you have two points on opposite sides of a globe they will not see the same skies thats the point here
I need to understand what you are saying.

For instance, are you claiming that here:

residents on the west coast of South America and those on the East Coast of Australia would not be able to see the Southern Cross at the exact same time?

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Offline Tumeni

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Re: Opposite sides viewing the same planet.
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2020, 11:25:08 AM »
I need to understand what you are saying.
For instance, are you claiming that here:

residents on the west coast of South America and those on the East Coast of Australia would not be able to see the Southern Cross at the exact same time?

They may well be able to both see it, but their overall skies (not just one star in their sky) will be different.

Place a sphere, representing globe Earth, in a room. Call the four walls N, S, E and W. The ceiling is U for Up, the floor is D for down

Imagine observers at the equator, one nearest the N wall, one nearest the S.  Both can look up to see U. However, if N is looking up, he will have E to his right and W to his left. If S also looks up, he will have E to his left, and W to his right.

Different skies for different observers, even though both can see the pole star (which could be at U or D)
« Last Edit: March 31, 2020, 11:55:54 AM by Tumeni »
=============================
Not Flat. Happy to prove this, if you ask me.
=============================

Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

Nearly?

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Offline GreatATuin

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Re: Opposite sides viewing the same planet.
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2020, 02:40:47 PM »
I'm not sure everyone is talking about the same things. OP mentioned planets. Crux is not a planet, it's a "fixed star" (as in, distant enough to look fixed in our sky).

Crux is visible most of the year south of the equator, and always visible at night south of 34ºS.

On your map, observers in Chile and in Australia will both see Crux, but at a different position in the sky.

As the Earth spins, observers at the same latitude will get a similar view of the fixed stars, but at a different time. Compare for example:

Sydney, Australia, 10:10 UTC
Cape Town, South Africa, 18:59 UTC
Valparaíso, Chile, 0:59 UTC

Note how the fixed stars look remarkably similar. The Moon however is at a slightly different position because it moved on its orbit during this time.

PS before someone corrects me: yes, Crux is actually a constellation, not a single star, but the points remain valid.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2020, 03:05:44 PM by GreatATuin »
Nearly all flat earthers agree the earth is not a globe.

you guys just read what you want to read

Groit

Re: Opposite sides viewing the same planet.
« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2020, 05:30:38 PM »
I have just taken screenshots for an observer in Cariamanga, Ecuador and one from Brisbane, Australia. Both taken at the same time but obviously both locations are in different time zones. Both observers can see the crux looking south, but look at how the 3 stars are positioned for each observer, from Ecuador they are right of the crux, and from Brisbane the same stars are positioned to the left of the crux.

This is enough evidence to prove that the observers are stood on almost the opposite surface of a globe.

Cariamanga, Ecuador:



Brisbane, Australia:

« Last Edit: March 31, 2020, 05:32:24 PM by Groit »