Yaakov ben Avraham

Fundamentally, the problem with part of FET is that their founder has no legitimate qualifications. He was not a MD, and he was not a PhD either, even though even if he WERE a MD, that would give him no grounds to argue on the shape of the Earth since MDs don't study that subject.

But since he lied on both his qualifications, what is to stop him from lying on every other thing he said? And, having read ENaG, it is pretty clear that either one, he did lie, or two, he was simply an idiot. His experiments were sloppy, the results unreliable in the extreme, and completely irrelevant in terms of proving the world's shape. So... where do you go from there? All you can do is go to proving the Earth round.

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Offline jroa

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Re: The qualifications of Rowbotham as a problem for REers accepting FET
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2015, 05:29:07 PM »
Please quote him lying about his qualifications.  You state it like it is a fact, so it should be easy for you to post a quote.

Also, Dr. Robotham is not the founder of TFES.  Please, learn somethings about a subject before you make yourself look misinformed or unintelligent.  Thanks. 

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: The qualifications of Rowbotham as a problem for REers accepting FET
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2015, 05:33:52 PM »
Please quote him lying about his qualifications.  You state it like it is a fact, so it should be easy for you to post a quote.

Also, Dr. Robotham is not the founder of TFES.  Please, learn somethings about a subject before you make yourself look misinformed or unintelligent.  Thanks.

Well, I don't have to. He IS the founder of the modern concept of FET, let's be honest about that. And he claimed to be a PhD without ever displaying a degree to prove that, in a country that did not even grant that degree during his lifetime. Nor did he ever display an MD degree. Nor did he ever display evidence of matriculation or graduation from any university, be it Edinburgh or elsewhere. And TFES did not exist as an organisation per se until after him, in fact, but that is beside the point.

And, as I said in an earlier post in the other thread, if a newspaper article is sufficient to prove a medical degree, I'll be sure to have one written in the local paper, and then I expect you to come to me for medical help when next you need it.

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Offline jroa

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Re: The qualifications of Rowbotham as a problem for REers accepting FET
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2015, 05:40:18 PM »
Please quote him lying about his qualifications.  You state it like it is a fact, so it should be easy for you to post a quote.

Also, Dr. Robotham is not the founder of TFES.  Please, learn somethings about a subject before you make yourself look misinformed or unintelligent.  Thanks.

Well, I don't have to. He IS the founder of the modern concept of FET, let's be honest about that. And he claimed to be a PhD without ever displaying a degree to prove that, in a country that did not even grant that degree during his lifetime. Nor did he ever display an MD degree. Nor did he ever display evidence of matriculation or graduation from any university, be it Edinburgh or elsewhere. And TFES did not exist as an organisation per se until after him, in fact, but that is beside the point.

And, as I said in an earlier post in the other thread, if a newspaper article is sufficient to prove a medical degree, I'll be sure to have one written in the local paper, and then I expect you to come to me for medical help when next you need it.

Please, present a) a quote in which he claimed to be a PhD and b) proof that he never presented his qualifications to anyone.  You might also throw in some of the lies that you attribute to him instead of just saying that he is a liar, but I will be happy for a) and b) for now. 

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: The qualifications of Rowbotham as a problem for REers accepting FET
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2015, 05:56:00 PM »
Please quote him lying about his qualifications.  You state it like it is a fact, so it should be easy for you to post a quote.

Also, Dr. Robotham is not the founder of TFES.  Please, learn somethings about a subject before you make yourself look misinformed or unintelligent.  Thanks.

Well, I don't have to. He IS the founder of the modern concept of FET, let's be honest about that. And he claimed to be a PhD without ever displaying a degree to prove that, in a country that did not even grant that degree during his lifetime. Nor did he ever display an MD degree. Nor did he ever display evidence of matriculation or graduation from any university, be it Edinburgh or elsewhere. And TFES did not exist as an organisation per se until after him, in fact, but that is beside the point.

And, as I said in an earlier post in the other thread, if a newspaper article is sufficient to prove a medical degree, I'll be sure to have one written in the local paper, and then I expect you to come to me for medical help when next you need it.

Please, present a) a quote in which he claimed to be a PhD and b) proof that he never presented his qualifications to anyone.  You might also throw in some of the lies that you attribute to him instead of just saying that he is a liar, but I will be happy for a) and b) for now.

I don't have to prove a negative. You have to prove a positive. His PhD was claimed in many places. His MD is on his gravestone, as is his PhD. He also claimed his MD in life quite regularly. So, he lied, at least to his wife, who presumably would not have put those things on his grave without his approval. And according to Garwood's book, he had reinvented himself after the mess at the commune as Samuel Birley, PhD. Interesting, that, since there was no degree granted in the UK of that nature until 1917.

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Offline jroa

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Re: The qualifications of Rowbotham as a problem for REers accepting FET
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2015, 05:58:36 PM »
So, in other words, you are making assumptions and using those assumptions as an attempt to discredit the good doctor's name.  Nice to know that you are just making things up.  Perhaps I should move this thread to CN now? 

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: The qualifications of Rowbotham as a problem for REers accepting FET
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2015, 06:04:56 PM »
So, in other words, you are making assumptions and using those assumptions as an attempt to discredit the good doctor's name.  Nice to know that you are just making things up.  Perhaps I should move this thread to CN now?

So now we use the power of the administrator when he cannot back up an argument. The good doctor? Where did he get his degree? When did he graduate? When did he matriculate?  What did he get his degree in? What kind of medicine did he practice?

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Offline Rushy

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Re: The qualifications of Rowbotham as a problem for REers accepting FET
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2015, 06:15:10 PM »
I think it has become pretty clear Yaakov has no intention of actually providing any content of his own beyond empty words.

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Offline juner

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Re: The qualifications of Rowbotham as a problem for REers accepting FET
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2015, 06:20:46 PM »
Yaakov, you are the one making the claim in your OP. The burden of proof is on you to provide evidence to support that claim you made. If you cannot do so, then I agree this thread does not belong in the upper fora.

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: The qualifications of Rowbotham as a problem for REers accepting FET
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2015, 06:35:29 PM »
I don't have to prove a negative. If someone is going to claim they are a doctor, they have to prove it with more than a newspaper article. No one has ever proven to me that he ever attended university, let alone graduated with a degree, other than that article, which DOES NOT count as proof.

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: The qualifications of Rowbotham as a problem for REers accepting FET
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2015, 06:38:08 PM »
But of course, you can use the power of the Administrator to not defend yourself, since you are clearly unable to do so. You can't even show us a basic degree. Why not?

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Offline juner

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Re: The qualifications of Rowbotham as a problem for REers accepting FET
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2015, 06:44:11 PM »
But of course, you can use the power of the Administrator to not defend yourself, since you are clearly unable to do so. You can't even show us a basic degree. Why not?

There is nothing to defend. You have made baseless claims up to this point and have refused to provide any evidence. No one in this thread, other than you, has made any claims that require evidence. If you are struggling to follow the logic of that, let me know, and I will be happy to guide you through it step-by-step.
 


Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: The qualifications of Rowbotham as a problem for REers accepting FET
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2015, 06:52:50 PM »
I have claimed that I have found no matriculation or graduation records at Edinburgh. And that is true. And that an article in the newspaper and a gravestone is not proof of possession of degrees. I have claimed that he never could have gotten a PhD, since he never left Britain, and Britain never gave PhDs during his lifetime. I don't have to prove negatives. You have to prove positives. It is that simple.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: The qualifications of Rowbotham as a problem for REers accepting FET
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2015, 06:56:29 PM »
I'm pretty sure it was a felony to represent yourself as a doctor if you were in fact not one. SBR was very much in the public spotlight with his movement. The idea that he got away with pretending to be a doctor and running a medical practice for over 35 years is laughable.

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Offline jroa

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Re: The qualifications of Rowbotham as a problem for REers accepting FET
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2015, 06:58:04 PM »
Yaakov, first of all, how do you know he never left Britain?  Making assumptions again, are you? 

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: The qualifications of Rowbotham as a problem for REers accepting FET
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2015, 07:01:59 PM »
Actually, no, it was not a felony to be informally an "MD" in England at the time. Many people were called "MD" simply because they practiced informally. It was considered a "Gentleman's Profession" that one could "learn by doing". Modern concepts of medical school were only just then being developed. In fact, many doctors didn't even charge fees, but took unobtrusive "donations" for their services. I recommend any good history book of the medical profession. Evidently you need some education.

No, JROA, I am not. There are no emigration records of him leaving. And he was very much a public figure. He was the leader of a commune, and then he was parading around the country bilking people of their money trying to get them to believe the world was flat. There was no time for him to have ever been able to get a PhD in America, which wasn't offered until the 1860's, and there is no evidence he spoke German to get one there, which was the only other country that offered one at the time.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2015, 07:19:46 PM by Yaakov ben Avraham »

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Re: The qualifications of Rowbotham as a problem for REers accepting FET
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2015, 07:19:48 PM »
I'm going to help you out Yaakov:

-Where did you look for his university qualifications and/or record of his claimed degrees?
-Where did you look for his emigration records?

Depending on the quality of your sources, answering those questions could go a long way to supporting your position.

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: The qualifications of Rowbotham as a problem for REers accepting FET
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2015, 07:28:27 PM »
I'm going to help you out Yaakov:

-Where did you look for his university qualifications and/or record of his claimed degrees?
-Where did you look for his emigration records?

Depending on the quality of your sources, answering those questions could go a long way to supporting your position.

A. The University of Edinburgh matriculation records and graduation records, via e-mail communications with their registrar.

B. Review of applications to the British Government for emigration permission for one Samuel Birley, and Samuel Birley Rowbotham, and Samuel Rowbotham, during the years he was NOT parading the country or writing books. I was not certain of when he was on the commune, so I backdated it a bit as well. This was done through the Government of the UK via e-mail.

The Government actually required payment of small fees, but it was worth it.

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: The qualifications of Rowbotham as a problem for REers accepting FET
« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2015, 07:32:52 PM »
And no, I am NOT going through a year's worth of e-mails to find them all. I'm not even sure which of four accounts they are in.

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: The qualifications of Rowbotham as a problem for REers accepting FET
« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2015, 08:18:30 PM »
For the present, I must sign off. I shall see you all later. I look forward to seeing your proofs when you can provide them. If you can contradict the University of Edinburgh or Her Majesty's Government, I look forward to conceding the argument. Ciao for now.