41

Flat Earth Community / Re: What are you doing here?

« on: August 28, 2023, 05:22:50 AM »

You seem confused about the subject. This is what FE is about:

A or B?



If you say B, you are a reality denier.

Indeed, but I doubt anyone IS claiming B.  "Level" means a structure perpendicular to the force of gravity at that point so on a globe earth (the earth we clearly are on) such s structure must follow the curve of the earth and hence will not be straight.  Over short distances (like you house) this can not be observed but over miles (as your diagram depicts) you certainly can do so.

42

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump

« on: August 26, 2023, 02:45:23 AM »

This seems like an issue that should go directly to the US Supreme Court.

43

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump

« on: August 25, 2023, 07:38:02 PM »

Again, it is to the benefit of the establishment if any of these cases are successful, as each is a fundamental attack on the First Amendment. The Bill of Rights is the actual target of progressives.

That's not what we were talking about, but in any case, it's not true. Trump isn't being prosecuted for exercising his freedom of speech, or for saying that he believes that the election was stolen. His alleged crimes involved speech, but so do many crimes. Is it an attack on freedom of speech to prosecute a mob boss who orders a hit? To prosecute a blackmailer who threatens to reveal damaging information about someone? To prosecute a spy who passes classified information to someone he knows isn't cleared for it? Likewise, it's not an attack on freedom of speech to prosecute Trump for asking other people to rig the election in his favor, nor for illegally retaining classified documents and showing them to people he knew weren't cleared for it.

Exactly.  Trump exorcised his right to contest  the election.  He went to court 62 times, losing 61 and his single victory did not change any outcome. He went to the supreme court twice and they declined to hear the cases since he offered no evidence of his claims.   There were multiple recounts in multiple states including Trump's own wacky cyber-ninja thing in Arizona and all of it came back with the same result of no systemic issues with Trump losing and Biden winning fair and square.  Its what he did after all that failed to change anything which has lead to his election related indictments (his indictments around false accounting to cover up payments to a pron star and the classified docs case do not involve the election).

44

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Having a Brain Blank... Trust traditional compass, yes or no?

« on: August 16, 2023, 05:38:08 PM »

...
But I already told you the big one, which is that there are no tangible measurements of the globe - and I will repeat this until the day I "die" because it is a fact.
...

Why do not the last couple of thousand years of all the various sorts of travel (time*speed=distance) plus explicit surveying plus of course https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eratosthenes in 200 BC or so not constitute "tangible measurements"?   Even more so now with GPS the earth has been extensively measured.

45

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Died Suddenly

« on: August 13, 2023, 05:02:07 PM »

No idea where that data is sourced from.

Did you try checking the image to see if it referenced the organization and url for the data?

The source I offered does not offer the filtering options in the url.  I can download and then attach that image file but I could not see how to reference the attached file in an img src=... .

The data Tom provided comes from the CDC/NCHS.

The wonder.cdc.gov site offers a vast number of options of what to include and what to exclude from a generated chart.  The X (aka twitter) post Tom linked to is not clear enough to determine what they all were (or at least my attempts and cutting/pasting/squinting did not succeed).

46

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Died Suddenly

« on: August 13, 2023, 03:00:21 AM »

No idea where that data is sourced from.

Did you try checking the image to see if it referenced the organization and url for the data?

The source I offered does not offer the filtering options in the url.  I can download and then attach that image file but I could not see how to reference the attached file in an img src=... . 

47

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Died Suddenly

« on: August 13, 2023, 01:17:32 AM »

CDC data shows that excess mortality between ages 0-44 continued to rise even as Covid Mortality declined. Doctors #Baffled

https://twitter.com/TexasLindsay_/status/1690133677450125312

No idea where that data is sourced from.  Here is a site where you can put in what ages/states you want to see using CDC data and for 0-24 year olds for the entire US it shows going up starting 2020 but being flat and coming down in 2023.
https://www.usmortality.com/excess-mortality/percentage. (the attach didn't work for me but just go and play with it yourself).

48

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Having a Brain Blank... Trust traditional compass, yes or no?

« on: August 07, 2023, 09:02:39 PM »

Whatever helps you sleep at night...  but you are a pretty absurd Sun-worshipping cult member to come here to TFES just to preach your heliocentric religion, as if people here are flat-earthers just because they decided to wake up one day and reject the heliocentric religion. Maybe your problem is that you don't realize you are a cult member and you actually think that heliocentrism is about science when it's not.

The welcome post for this forum says

The purpose of this board is to directly examine, discuss and critique the Flat Earth Theory. We encourage posts in support of both the Flat Earth and Round Earth model (or, indeed, any other model).

I think that is what I have been doing.  I wanted to see if FEers actually thought that what they post is true and had reasonable support for such or were just engaging in trolling of one form/degree or another.   Your posts tend to make me think the latter is more likely.  But as you say "whatever...".

49

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Having a Brain Blank... Trust traditional compass, yes or no?

« on: August 07, 2023, 07:18:09 PM »

The basic geometry of a plane and the surface of a sphere does not allow them to be the same.

They can be the same if you argue that objects drop in your field of view at the same rate that the imaginary curve does. So basically, if you argue that our eyes are flat and the world is spherical, instead of the other way around.

A geostationary orbit (perhaps I should have said geosynchronous orbit, but they are used interchangeable)  means orbiting at the same rate that the earth is spinning such that it remains above the same spot but is certainly still orbiting the earth.

If something remains at the same spot, it's not moving. Only through invoking imaginary concepts such as a spining ball Earth can you argue that it is. Another one that's here to defend this absurd concept as if it's gospel truth, are you?

They are largely made of Kevlar and aluminum and smaller amounts of other metals (copper wiring, titanium frames etc).. If you want to make the case that a mostly nonferrous object weighing a few thousand pounds can be levitated 22,000 miles above the equator via earth's magnetic field, go ahead.

Ok, you are the TV satellite engineer, so we should listen to you.

Our direct and indirect observation of the earth and other planets as well as all our means of measurement/instrumentation of this planet from travel time to surveying to GPS are all consistent in showing a spheroid planet which is well explained by our understanding of physics and cosmology.  I contend that this is so as its real.  You contend that somehow its all false and the earth is actually flat of unknown layout, structure and origin yet somehow all said observations and measurement despite their different methodologies are consistent in their deviation from this flat earth reality.  Yet you claim that I am the one who is being absurd.  Pretty funny.

50

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Having a Brain Blank... Trust traditional compass, yes or no?

« on: August 07, 2023, 04:33:54 PM »

If you say so. How is the layout of land/water not the same?

The basic geometry of a plane and the surface of a sphere does not allow them to be the same.

Geostationary means not moving. Not moving means not orbiting.

A geostationary orbit (perhaps I should have said geosynchronous orbit, but they are used interchangeable)  means orbiting at the same rate that the earth is spinning such that it remains above the same spot but is certainly still orbiting the earth.

Therefore, balloon sat makes sense to me. But quite possibly, they figured out a way to keep non-balloon satellites magnetically stationary, because they are all above the equator. So more likely than not, they are magnetically stuck at the only spot in the magnetic field where it's possible to do so. Because last time I checked, they don't make satellites out of wood or plastic, do they?

They are largely made of Kevlar and aluminum and smaller amounts of other metals (copper wiring, titanium frames etc), silicon for he solar cells, etc.. If you want to make the case that a mostly nonferrous object weighing a few thousand pounds can be levitated 22,000 miles above the equator via earth's magnetic field, go ahead.

51

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Having a Brain Blank... Trust traditional compass, yes or no?

« on: August 07, 2023, 02:25:30 AM »

There is always some spot on the earth were each sat can be contacted so they can't be going below the FE, so how are they "orbiting it"?  Are they circulating above it?    But that path over land does not match the path that the sats actually take.  Is something orbiting the FE not only possible but indistinguishable from orbiting the RE?  I see no such claims made by the FEers nor can imagine how that might be possible.  If you want to make that case, go ahead.  Otherwise you're just avoiding the issue..  Even the low orbits of GPS sats is about 12k miles, isn't that above the claimed height of the FE sun?

Below?? All satellites orbit from east to west or viceversa. There's no "below" - they go in circles above the Earth as expected (assuming they do).

An infinite variety of orbits are possible.  There are sats that are in polar orbits.  GPS orbits are inclined about 45 degrees to the equator.  If you want to claim that the same orbit is possible on the FE you have to show that at any point on the earth the distance to the visible sats is the same, but since the layout of land/water on the FE is not the same as the RE, you can not do that.

How are you so sure that they are at 12k miles? Even if that's true - no, it's not incompatible with FE because nobody knows the true location and distance to the Sun or any celestial objects.

If we can put up orbiting sats why can we not observe the sun and other celestial objects to get their precise location?

But show me that they are at 12k miles, not just because "data says so".

Because using that orbital data comes up with the correctly triangulated position for where the receiver is in fact located.  And those positions match the RE.

No it can not be as the altitude would be wrong and you can not force users to only aim at their assigned balloon.

What's preventing me from aiming my dish at other balloons?

If you scan around with your dish there is only one maximum and its where the geostationary sat is claimed to be.

52

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Having a Brain Blank... Trust traditional compass, yes or no?

« on: August 07, 2023, 01:13:15 AM »

Or more likely you just refuse to hear it.  The key data in the GPS message is that which allows the receiver to determine where the sat was when it transmitted the message and the timestamp when that transmission occurred.   Earth bound transmitters could lie about their location and the time, but the set of receivers that will acquire that message at the same moment and hence compute the same distance they are away from that transmitter is VERY different if the transmitter is actually in orbit as it claims, or on some ground station (other than in the rate situation where the transmitter is claimed to be directly above the actual earth bound location).  Thus most receivers would compute the wrong distance and their location would be wrong, but it isn't.  GPS works, so the transmitters must actually be where they claim to be (i.e. in orbit).

As for sat TV at any location in N America (for example) you get the max signal strength if you point your dish at the claimed geo-stationary orbit location.  So that indicates that the sat actually is at the location  How is that going to happen on the FE?

And? Why can't they be orbiting FE?

There is always some spot on the earth were each sat can be contacted so they can't be going below the FE, so how are they "orbiting it"?  Are they circulating above it?    But that path over land does not match the path that the sats actually take.  Is something orbiting the FE not only possible but indistinguishable from orbiting the RE?  I see no such claims made by the FEers nor can imagine how that might be possible.  If you want to make that case, go ahead.  Otherwise you're just avoiding the issue..  Even the low orbits of GPS sats is about 12k miles, isn't that above the claimed height of the FE sun?

Further the aggregate GPS info corroborates the globe layout of land/water so if we were on a FE how would it do that?

Satellite TV is different. Could be balloon satellites as far as I know.

No it can not be as the altitude would be wrong and you can not force users to only aim at their assigned balloon.

53

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Having a Brain Blank... Trust traditional compass, yes or no?

« on: August 07, 2023, 12:51:22 AM »

Just read my sig.

Clinging to any weak argument such as GPS working = Earth is a ball because you choose belief? I see.

How is it weak?  If you understand now GPS works then you know that the transmitters must actually be in the specified locations (in orbit) for it to work, which it does.  So they are in orbit (angled at about 45 degrees to the equator).

I have yet to hear a single good reason why GPS or satellite TV can't work on FE, other than it has the word "global" in the name and the transmitters are assumed to be orbiting a ball because of further assuming that we live on one (which aren't good reasons).

Or more likely you just refuse to hear it.  The key data in the GPS message is that which allows the receiver to determine where the sat was when it transmitted the message and the timestamp when that transmission occurred.   Earth bound transmitters could lie about their location and the time, but the set of receivers that will acquire that message at the same moment and hence compute the same distance they are away from that transmitter is VERY different if the transmitter is actually in orbit as it claims, or on some ground station (other than in the rate situation where the transmitter is claimed to be directly above the actual earth bound location).  Thus most receivers would compute the wrong distance and their location would be wrong, but it isn't.  GPS works, so the transmitters must actually be where they claim to be (i.e. in orbit).

As for sat TV at any location in N America (for example) you get the max signal strength if you point your dish at the claimed geo-stationary orbit location.  So that indicates that the sat actually is at the location  How is that going to happen on the FE?

54

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Having a Brain Blank... Trust traditional compass, yes or no?

« on: August 07, 2023, 12:06:24 AM »

Just read my sig.

Clinging to any weak argument such as GPS working = Earth is a ball because you choose belief? I see.

How is it weak?  If you understand now GPS works then you know that the transmitters must actually be in the specified locations (in orbit) for it to work, which it does.  So they are in orbit (angled at about 45 degrees to the equator).

55

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Having a Brain Blank... Trust traditional compass, yes or no?

« on: August 06, 2023, 11:35:30 PM »

The key for data is whether it is real or made up.

NASA's claims have a huge amount of data backing them up (its 10s of TB pouring in daily at present if I recall correctly)

Oh, wow! You blew my mind. NASA produces terabytes of data to back them up, don't they? Does the "real" data happen to be the same or approximately the same as the simulated data because NASA does such a good job? I don't know, I'm asking you since you're the expert.

So if they produced petabytes of data per day, in your mind is this even more of a confirmation of space travel and the heliocentric model than mere terabytes? I bet once they produce exabytes of data, all the FE heretics will have no choice but to accept everything that comes from NASA.

Just read my sig.

56

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Having a Brain Blank... Trust traditional compass, yes or no?

« on: August 06, 2023, 09:05:40 PM »

It's white board time.
...

Are there other areas of inquiry where you think that the authoritative sources are ONLY publishing on forums such as YouTube and not (at least also) on the usual scientific venues where one has to actually back up claims with data and are peer reviewed etc, or is the shape of the earth the only one?  (just curious). 
~                                                       

What is the point of peer-reviewed if in order to be a valid peer and to be published you have to be part of and approved by the system?

That "system" is the scientific method, that is a set of practices created so as to allow reproducible trustworthy results, to the extent that such is possible (and the success of the scientific method indicates that extent is pretty large).

Data is just data - it's neither true nor false.

The key for data is whether it is real or made up.

As far as authoritative sources, those require faith. Example: NASA claims to have been to the Moon, Mars and others, seemingly confirming the current heliocentric model. Of course, one should distrust authoritative sources - especially when it comes to information that has potential conflicts of interest attached to it (which is almost always the case with information that comes from authoritative sources).

NASA's claims have a huge amount of data backing them up (its 10s of TB pouring in daily at present if I recall correctly).  If you are going to distrust a source I'd say that renders it non-authoritative to you so for you then there are no authoritative sources?  Then you decide on what to take as true based on what? randomness?

57

Flat Earth Theory / Re: Having a Brain Blank... Trust traditional compass, yes or no?

« on: August 06, 2023, 06:23:36 PM »

It's white board time.
...

Are there other areas of inquiry where you think that the authoritative sources are ONLY publishing on forums such as YouTube and not (at least also) on the usual scientific venues where one has to actually back up claims with data and are peer reviewed etc, or is the shape of the earth the only one?  (just curious). 
~                                                         

58

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: President Joe Biden

« on: July 31, 2023, 09:42:36 PM »

"Former business partner says Hunter Biden sold ‘illusion’ of access to Joe Biden, source says"
https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/31/politics/devon-archer-house-testimony/index.html

Just as I and undoubtedly others have speculated.  Hunter did not have to actually have any influence with his father to get high paying jobs where his employer wanted it to look like he had such.

59

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: President Joe Biden

« on: July 21, 2023, 05:34:02 AM »

If you argument is going to be essentially "yeah, the reporting is true, people were attesting to those things against Joe Biden" then I'm not sure why you jumped into denial mode to attack the source. They claimed that they received evidence that people were saying these things to the FBI about Joe Biden and that is how it was presented.

The reporting (by the CHS) is that the reported conversation took place, not that what the conversation was about is true which the CHS can not know and that fact is clearly downplayed in the article.  It seems pretty clear that Burisma put Hunter on their board to at least make it appear in their dealings with others that they had influence.  Whether they actually had influence with Biden via Hunter is not at all clear nor would it be necessary for Hunter's paycheck to be worthwhile to Bursima.  Also as Honk points out Biden wanted Shokin fired due to his NOT investigating Burisma, so that at least does not show Biden acting on Bursima's behalf but against them.

60

Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: President Joe Biden

« on: July 21, 2023, 01:45:01 AM »

The screen shots are reports from a Confidential Human Source about claims of conversations between others claiming things.  Maybe its true, but its also here-say.   It also talks about the head of Bursima using the fact that Hunter was on their board in his conversations with others in a "hey you know how we have on our board" sort of tactic, but no proof that that path was actually employed.  Maybe, but no evidence showing that as yet anyway.