The Coriolis Effect - Wiki Page
« on: October 05, 2018, 12:51:02 PM »
On the wiki page https://wiki.tfes.org/The_Coriolis_Effect here among other things it states
Quote
The Coriolis Effect, however, is a fictitious effect that is not, and has never been, demonstrated with experimental evidence. Its proponents are unable to show that this effect has ever been detected or that it is truly necessary to account for in various operations. The evidence for this effect appears to be based entirely on 'common knowledge', on how things 'should be', and by authors who make 'predictions'; but all articles and documents presented in favor of the "Coriolis Effect" are without reference to, or demonstration of, the critical and necessary experimental evidence to directly prove the matter.

I would state this is just a bald-faced lie. I present a better listing of experimental evidence in favor of the Coriolis effect here:
http://www.legi.grenoble-inp.fr/web/spip.php?article819&lang=en

Within that page you will find a number of links to experiments that verified the effect, as well as a nice guided tour through the history of studying it. It includes some information as well on the Eötvös effect and G. Coriolis' original paper on the matter.

Mysfit

Re: The Coriolis Effect - Wiki Page
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2018, 01:26:16 PM »
On the wiki page https://wiki.tfes.org/The_Coriolis_Effect here among other things it states
Quote
The Coriolis Effect, however, is a fictitious effect that is not, and has never been, demonstrated with experimental evidence. Its proponents are unable to show that this effect has ever been detected or that it is truly necessary to account for in various operations.
I provided a video which demonstrated the effect in... effect. I can understand it not being included on the wiki, as they would need to ask permission (I think), but it is still experimental proof of something happening to a bullet in the same conditions with just the direction being changed East/West.
I'll put the video here, so it is easily available.


The author was not brought into question and the queries about it were put to bed.
I would like to know how many more steps are required for it to be acknowledged. *puppy eyes*

I understand it brings Flat Earth Theory into question, but Sandokhan is working on a handy solution.
The Coriolis effect on ballistics is yet another thing that proves the Earth spins.

The Coriolis force exists only when one uses a rotating reference frame.

Either the Earth's supposed rotation, OR the ether drift's rotation above the surface of the Earth.

Sandokhan gave me a link to another forum with an aether/ether explanation, but I got lost when I internally compared it to the attraction of gravity. I am not clever enough, but I expect the final version of their work can be simplified, with some help, and put on the wiki. Exciting stuff.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: The Coriolis Effect - Wiki Page
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2018, 04:26:06 PM »
On the wiki page https://wiki.tfes.org/The_Coriolis_Effect here among other things it states
Quote
The Coriolis Effect, however, is a fictitious effect that is not, and has never been, demonstrated with experimental evidence. Its proponents are unable to show that this effect has ever been detected or that it is truly necessary to account for in various operations. The evidence for this effect appears to be based entirely on 'common knowledge', on how things 'should be', and by authors who make 'predictions'; but all articles and documents presented in favor of the "Coriolis Effect" are without reference to, or demonstration of, the critical and necessary experimental evidence to directly prove the matter.

I would state this is just a bald-faced lie.

How is an opinion in an opening thesis statement a lie?

I provided a video which demonstrated the effect in... effect. I can understand it not being included on the wiki, as they would need to ask permission (I think), but it is still experimental proof of something happening to a bullet in the same conditions with just the direction being changed East/West.
I'll put the video here, so it is easily available.
https://youtu.be/jX7dcl_ERNs

The author was not brought into question and the queries about it were put to bed.
I would like to know how many more steps are required for it to be acknowledged. *puppy eyes*

I thought we went over that one and determined that the author was shooting in the wrong direction? He should be shooting North-South to see the Coriolis Effect.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2018, 04:30:20 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline stack

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Re: The Coriolis Effect - Wiki Page
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2018, 04:47:56 PM »
On the wiki page https://wiki.tfes.org/The_Coriolis_Effect here among other things it states
Quote
The Coriolis Effect, however, is a fictitious effect that is not, and has never been, demonstrated with experimental evidence. Its proponents are unable to show that this effect has ever been detected or that it is truly necessary to account for in various operations. The evidence for this effect appears to be based entirely on 'common knowledge', on how things 'should be', and by authors who make 'predictions'; but all articles and documents presented in favor of the "Coriolis Effect" are without reference to, or demonstration of, the critical and necessary experimental evidence to directly prove the matter.

I would state this is just a bald-faced lie.

How is an opinion in an opening thesis statement a lie?

I provided a video which demonstrated the effect in... effect. I can understand it not being included on the wiki, as they would need to ask permission (I think), but it is still experimental proof of something happening to a bullet in the same conditions with just the direction being changed East/West.
I'll put the video here, so it is easily available.
https://youtu.be/jX7dcl_ERNs

The author was not brought into question and the queries about it were put to bed.
I would like to know how many more steps are required for it to be acknowledged. *puppy eyes*

I thought we went over that one and determined that the author was shooting in the wrong direction? He should be shooting North-South to see the Coriolis Effect.

I believe that is correct, N/S is Coriolis, E/W is Eötvös.

From wikipedia: The Eötvös effect is the change in perceived gravitational force caused by the change in centrifugal acceleration resulting from eastbound or westbound velocity. When moving eastbound, the object's angular velocity is increased (in addition to the earth's rotation), and thus the centrifugal force also increases, causing a perceived reduction in gravitational force.

Re: The Coriolis Effect - Wiki Page
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2018, 04:54:06 PM »
On the wiki page https://wiki.tfes.org/The_Coriolis_Effect here among other things it states
Quote
The Coriolis Effect, however, is a fictitious effect that is not, and has never been, demonstrated with experimental evidence. Its proponents are unable to show that this effect has ever been detected or that it is truly necessary to account for in various operations. The evidence for this effect appears to be based entirely on 'common knowledge', on how things 'should be', and by authors who make 'predictions'; but all articles and documents presented in favor of the "Coriolis Effect" are without reference to, or demonstration of, the critical and necessary experimental evidence to directly prove the matter.

I would state this is just a bald-faced lie.

How is an opinion in an opening thesis statement a lie?
I mean, if you just stopped there and ignored the rest of my post for context.... C'mon Tom, you can't possibly be this dense can you? The entry states there's no evidence for the effect. I posted a location that links to a number of experiments all showing evidence of the effect, a link and information you've snipped for unknown reasons. Do I need to highlight the exact parts I have issues with in your 'opening thesis statement'? (Hint, it's everything after the first 'and' of the first sentence) Will you attempt to wriggle your way out of an actual discussion on this? Or will you actually practice what you preach and accept new information? Sando seems to have an answer that can 'substitute' for the spin of the Earth, so it's not as though this 'kills' FE or anything.

Re: The Coriolis Effect - Wiki Page
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2018, 04:57:51 PM »
In the RE version, the Coriolis force is fictitious.

However, in the FE description, the Coriolis force is very real: it is caused by the rotation of the ether drift above the surface of the Earth.

In fact, Michelson and Gale measured the effect of the Coriolis force upon the light beams in 1925.

Here is the formula:



The figures for the area of the path, latitude (41deg. 46'), wavelength of the light, speed of light, and the expected fringe shifts are well known.

Expected fringe shift: 0.2364

Measured fringe shift: 0.230 +/- 0.005

Then, the angular velocity of the Earth can be easily computed.

However, what Michelson did is to publish the Coriolis effect formula and state that is was actually the Sagnac formula.

That is why for the past 90 years, the RE have always used with huge success the MGX to put an end to any debate with geocentrists and flat earth believers.

Michelson's interferometer measured ONLY the Coriolis effect (a physical effect, a deflection of the light beams) and NOT the rotational Sagnac effect (an electromagnetic effect, much greater in magnitude than the Coriolis effect).

Modern day ring laser interferometers also use the same Coriolis formula, while physicists running the experiment are claiming that it is the Sagnac formula.

Michelson knew very well that the formula published by him was actually the Coriolis effect formula, since Dr. Silberstein explicitly derived this same formula in 1921 using the most in-depth analysis ever done on the relationship between the Coriolis force effect and the Sagnac interferometer.

This is the correct rotational Sagnac effect formula for an interferometer which is located away from the center of rotation (Michelson-Gale, Michelson-Morley, Hammar, ring laser gyroscopes):




Dr. Frederick Tombe explains:

http://gsjournal.net/Science-Journals/Research%20Papers-Mathematical%20Physics/Download/6212 (Wikipedia and Coriolis Force)

http://gsjournal.net/Science-Journals/Essays-Miscellaneous/Download/5288 (The Centrifugal Force and the Coriolis Force)

http://gsjournal.net/Science-Journals/Research%20Papers-Mechanics%20/%20Electrodynamics/Download/3842 (The Coriolis Force)

"The Coriolis force is not what it is said to be in modern textbooks. It is not a fictitious illusion which is merely a product of making an observation from a rotating frame of reference. The cyclones in the atmosphere are observable absolutely, and they arise from two very real compound inertial forces, and these inertial forces have a physical cause which is closely related to, but not identical to, the magnetic forces."

http://gsjournal.net/Science-Journals/Research%20Papers-Astrophysics/Download/3161 (The Coriolis Force in Maxwell’s Equations)

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Offline Bobby Shafto

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Re: The Coriolis Effect - Wiki Page
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2018, 05:12:46 PM »
In the RE version, the Coriolis force is fictitious.

However, in the FE description, the Coriolis force is very real...

Semantics aside ("fictitious," "pseudo"), that is true for a rotating round/globe earth.

Obviously, there is some contention as to what flat earth (FE) thinks about the Coriolis force. This site takes the position that the Coriolis force is unproven to exist, either as a pseudo force or a real force. Sandokhan argues otherwise, and in his version of a Flat Earth Theory (FET), Coriolis force is "very real."

The logical deduction is that if the TFES wiki is correct, then proving the Coriolis force to exist would be a feature distinguishing a rotating earth (a globe) from a static (flat) earth. But if Sandokhan's version is correct, then the existence of a Coriolis force by itself is not a distinguishing feature.

This is really an argument between advocates of FET variants. I just point this out because for FET critics, knowing which variant one is addressing is rather crucial.

Mysfit

Re: The Coriolis Effect - Wiki Page
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2018, 05:43:02 PM »
I believe that is correct, N/S is Coriolis, E/W is Eötvös.

From wikipedia: The Eötvös effect is the change in perceived gravitational force caused by the change in centrifugal acceleration resulting from eastbound or westbound velocity. When moving eastbound, the object's angular velocity is increased (in addition to the earth's rotation), and thus the centrifugal force also increases, causing a perceived reduction in gravitational force.

This seems to be splitting hairs.
Also from wikipedia - "There are other components of the Coriolis effect. Westward-travelling objects are deflected downwards (feel heavier), while Eastward-travelling objects are deflected upwards (feel lighter).[44] This is known as the Eötvös effect."
So, the Eötvös effect is part of the Coriolis effect?
I repeatedly point out I'm not clever, but making things needlessly complicated seems a bit unfair :(.

That brings it back around though, that video is showing the Eötvös effect part of the Coriolis effect.
I am struggling to work out Sandokhan's formulae, but I hope they are explaining how this still works for a flat earth.
If so, that needs to go on the wiki.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2018, 10:31:43 PM by Mysfit »

Re: The Coriolis Effect - Wiki Page
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2018, 06:02:01 PM »
The existence of a Coriolis force by itself is not a distinguishing feature.

The light beams in an interferometer are subject to both the Coriolis effect and the Sagnac effect.

The Sagnac phase shift formula used in the GPS satellite signals calculations is also a Coriolis effect equation.

The light signal sent by the GPS satellite to Earth is deflected by the ether drift: a translational motion through the ether.

In a rare admission, the principal proponent of the theory of relativity as it applies to GPS technology acknowledges that the Coriolis-like term of equation (9) is related to the Sagnac effect:




The Coriolis effect is proportional to the area of the interferometer.

The Sagnac effect is proportional to the velocity of the light beams.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: The Coriolis Effect - Wiki Page
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2018, 06:05:58 PM »
I am looking at the article given in the OP - http://www.legi.grenoble-inp.fr/web/spip.php?article819&lang=en

The origin of the "Coriolis Effect" is described:

Quote
The first detailed study on a manifestation of the "Coriolis" force was made by Giovanni Borelli in the 1660s, when he considered the problem of falling bodies on a rotating Earth. In a theoretical analysis, he found that they will undergo a small eastward deflection during their fall.

Hmm. Not a very good origin story.

There is only one experiment the author of the article references in favor of the Coriolis Effect. All others referenced in the article appear to be theoretical analysis:

Quote
Only at the beginning of the 19th century were experiments done in a sufficiently careful manner to detect the deflection. For example,

J.F. Benzenberg (1804): Versuche über das Gesetz des Falls, über den Widerstand der Luft und über die Umdrehung der Erde nebst der Geschichte aller früheren Versuche von Galiläi bis auf Guglielmini, Mallinckbodt, Dortmund.

This appears to be one of the deflection of falling body experiments. From 'The Report of the Sixteenth Meeting of the British Association of the Advancement of Science' we find an analysis of Dr. Benzenberg's experiments:

Quote
In the beginning of this century, Dr. Benzenberg undertook new experiments at Hamburgh, from a height of about 240 feet, which gave a deviation of 3·99 French lines; but they gave a still greater deviation to the south. Though the experiments here quoted seem to be satisfactory in point of the eastern deviation, I cannot consider them to be so in truth; for it is but right to state that these experiments have considerable discrepancies among themselves, and that their mean, therefore, cannot be of great value. In some other experiments made afterwards in a deep pit, Dr. Benzenberg obtained only the eastern deviation, but they seem not to deserve more confidence. Greater faith is to be placed in the experiments of Professor Reich, in a pit of 540 feet, at Freiberg. Here the easterly deviation was also found in good agreement with the calculated result; but a considerable southern deviation was observed. The numbers obtained were the means of experiments which differed much among themselves. After all this, there can be no doubt that our knowledge on this subject is imperfect, and that new experiments are to be desired.

In the book Earth Not a Globe, the author Samuel Birley Rowbotham devotes an entire chapter tho the Deflection of Bodies experiment saga. In this chapter Rowbotham walks us through numerous experiments, the inconsistencies among them, and concludes his chapter with:

Quote from: Earth Not a Globe
Thus it is admitted that deflection from a height of 300 feet "is so small as to be practically inappreciable;" that "great heights are necessary for giving only a deviation of one-tenth part of an inch;" that when this amount was observed, "at the same time deviation to the south was given, which was not in accordance with the mathematical calculations;" that "the experiments have considerable discrepancies among themselves;" that "the experiments differed very much;" that "after all there can be no doubt that our knowledge on this subject is imperfect;" that on repeating the experiments with the utmost possible care down a shaft of 1320 feet in depth, the bullets did not fall easterly at all from the plummets, "but from 10 to 20 inches south of the plumb-line," and out of forty-eight bullets, forty-four fell "on the south side of the shaft, in situations which precluded exact measurements of the distances being taken;" and, finally, that puzzled mathematicians, with their ever ready ingenuity to make facts agree with the wildest of theories, even with those of a opposite character, conclude that "falling bodies may have either north, south, east, or west deflection from the plumb-line." What value can such uncertain and conflicting evidence possess in the minds of reasoning men? They are shameless logicians, indeed, who contend that, from such results, the earth is proved to have a diurnal rotation!
« Last Edit: October 05, 2018, 06:30:10 PM by Tom Bishop »

Mysfit

Re: The Coriolis Effect - Wiki Page
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2018, 06:51:08 PM »
Quote
The first detailed study on a manifestation of the "Coriolis" force was made by Giovanni Borelli in the 1660s, when he considered the problem of falling bodies on a rotating Earth. In a theoretical analysis, he found that they will undergo a small eastward deflection during their fall.

Hmm. Not a very good origin story.

There is only one experiment this author references in favor of the Coriolis Effect.

I am given to understand that truth is boring and fiction sells books. Just because it is boring doesn't prove truth, I am just suggesting a correlation.
I agree that 1 experiment from 1 source is not enough. We need to repeat that experiment lots of times and can then close the book on this.

In the book Earth Not a Globe
I do not like that book. It is my nemesis, so I will respect it.

Quote from: Samuel Birley Rowbotham
that on repeating the experiments with the utmost possible care down a shaft of 1320 feet in depth, the bullets did not fall easterly at all from the plummets, "but from 10 to 20 inches south of the plumb-line," and out of forty-eight bullets, forty-four fell "on the south side of the shaft, in situations which precluded exact measurements of the distances being taken;"
I'm gonna skip out the conjunction of quotes to fit a theme, but wouldn't this indicate a force pushing falling objects south?
It's still not enough experimentation, though. We need to repeat that experiment lots of times and can then close the book on this.


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Offline stack

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Re: The Coriolis Effect - Wiki Page
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2018, 07:09:37 PM »
In the book Earth Not a Globe, the author Samuel Birley Rowbotham devotes an entire chapter tho the Deflection of Bodies experiment saga. In this chapter Rowbotham walks us through numerous experiments, the inconsistencies among them, and concludes his chapter with:

Similar type of experiment performed by Dyer & Rowbotham:

"Dyer described Rowbotham’s famous air-gun experiment, quoting his account of it at length. [ref. 1.106]  As it happened, he was well-prepared to shed some light on this experiment.  He wrote:

The account of the air-gun experiment is not correct in its most essential part.  During his stay at Northampton, Parallax gave four lectures—two in the hall of the Mechanics’ Institute, and two in Milton Hall, then belonging to me.  In one of the lectures delivered in the latter place, he stated that “if bullets were propelled from an air-gun, fixed perpendicularly to a post or other suitable object, they would return to the barrel of the gun again.” [ref. 1.107]

Dyer owned an air-gun, and at the end of the lecture, he publicly challenged Rowbotham to make the experiment, offering him five shillings for every ball of twenty that fell back into the barrel.  Rowbotham could hardly refuse, and a committee was selected from the audience to observe the experiment and make a report at the next lecture.  Dyer continued:

The experiment was carried out on a piece of land at the back of my house.  The twenty bullets were propelled from the gun, but in place of “invariably descending within a few inches of the gun,” or “back to the place of their detachment,” as stated by Parallax, they fell in all directions, and from ten to twenty feet from the gun.

You can therefore fancy my surprise and astonishment when I saw it stated in his book that “the balls invariably descended within a few inches of the gun,” and also “back to the place of detachment.” He likewise states that “twice it fell upon the very mouth of the barrel.” Not two of the twenty balls that were propelled from the gun and formed part of the experiment. [ref. 1.108]

Two balls did strike the barrel, however, after the experiment.  When Dyer was letting the remaining air out of the gun, Rowbotham brought him two balls and asked him to try them again.  There was barely enough air pressure to pop them out of the barrel, and they rose a few inches and fell back onto the muzzle! [ref. 1.109]"

https://www.cantab.net/users/michael.behrend/ebooks/PlaneTruth/pages/Chapter_01.html

Re: The Coriolis Effect - Wiki Page
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2018, 07:38:47 PM »
if bullets were propelled from an air-gun, fixed perpendicularly to a post or other suitable object, they would return to the barrel of the gun again.”

What you are describing is a vertically fired projectile.

Here is the formula:



g = 32ft/s2

TE = period of rotation = 86,400 s

λ = latitude

Then, the RE have a huge problem.

"Let's consider 58 seconds needed time for a bullet to come back on the surface of the earth :

Using our formula above :

1. If we were at the North Pole our bullet should come back right in the gun muzzle.
2. If we were at the Equator our bullet should fall 75,27 feet (22,5 meters) away from our gun."

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Offline stack

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Re: The Coriolis Effect - Wiki Page
« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2018, 08:06:53 PM »
Then, the RE have a huge problem.

"Let's consider 58 seconds needed time for a bullet to come back on the surface of the earth :

Using our formula above :

1. If we were at the North Pole our bullet should come back right in the gun muzzle.
2. If we were at the Equator our bullet should fall 75,27 feet (22,5 meters) away from our gun."

I'm not sure I follow. I'm just pointing out that Dyer & Rowbotham apparently did a relevant experiment. Seemingly, Rowbotham stretched the truth to some degree regarding the outcome.

The experiment was done in Northampton, England. Not at the pole nor at the equator. There's no mention of a 58 second 'air-time' for the bullets that I'm aware of. (As a side note, the longest sniper kill is 3500m with around 10 seconds of flight time - 58 seconds? That's one heck of a 19th century air-gun.)

So I don't see how the calculation applies here.

Re: The Coriolis Effect - Wiki Page
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2018, 08:20:17 AM »
The Coriolis effect on bullets amounts to some inches, while the effect of the wind could be even greater than this figure; that is why the UA proponents are justified to call into question the Coriolis force on projectiles.

The adepts of the UA hypothesis might even deny the existence of satellites, thus they do not have to explain the delay of the signal from the GPS satellites to  Earth, which is caused by the Coriolis effect of the ether drift.

But they cannot deny the existence and current use of ring laser interferometers.

The original interferometer built by Michelson and Gale in Clearing, IL, measured 2010 ft x 1113 ft: the laser technology has permitted a great reduction in size of the interferometer to just a few meters.

This is the original paper published by Michelson and Gale in 1925:

http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-iarticle_query?1925ApJ....61..137M&data_type=PDF_HIGH&whole_paper=YES&type=PRINTER&filetype=.pdf


http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-iarticle_query?1925ApJ....61..140M&data_type=PDF_HIGH&whole_paper=YES&type=PRINTER&filetype=.pdf

This is the formula for the MGX and the ring laser interferometers:



Here is the derivation:






However, this the CORIOLIS EFFECT formula for light beams.

Full derivation of the above formula using the CORIOLIS FORCE:

https://www.ias.ac.in/article/fulltext/pram/087/05/0071

Dr. Ludwik Silberstein derived the same formula in 1921:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2068289#msg2068289

In 1921, Dr. Silberstein proposed that the Sagnac effect, as it relates to the rotation of the Earth or to the effect of the ether drift, must be explained in terms of the Coriolis effect: the direct action of Coriolis forces on counterpropagating waves.

http://www.conspiracyoflight.com/Michelson-Gale/Silberstein.pdf

The propagation of light in rotating systems, Journal of the Optical Society of America, vol. V, number 4, 1921

Dr. Silberstein developed the formula published by A. Michelson using very precise details, not to be found anywhere else.

He uses the expression kω for the angular velocity, where k is the aether drag factor.

He proves that the formula for the Coriolis effect on the light beams is:

dt = 2ωσ/c^2

Then, Dr. Silberstein analyzes the area σ and proves that it is actually a SUM of two other areas (page 300 of the paper, page 10 of the pdf document).

The effect of the Coriolis force upon the interferometer will be to create a convex and a concave shape of the areas: σ1 and σ2.

The sum of these two areas is replaced by 2A and this is how the final formula achieves its final form:

dt = 4ωA/c^2

A = σ1 + σ2

That is, the CORIOLIS EFFECT upon the light beams is totally related to the closed contour area.

In 1922, Dr. Silberstein published a second paper on the subject, where he generalizes the nature of the rays arriving from the collimator:

http://gsjournal.net/Science-Journals/Historical%20Papers-Mechanics%20/%20Electrodynamics/Download/2645

In 1924, one year before the Michelson-Gale experiment, Dr. Silberstein published a third paper, where he again explicitly links the Coriolis effect to the counterpropagating light beams in the interferometer:

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/14786442408634503

Thus A. Michelson knew well in advance that he was going to actually measure the Coriolis effect and not the Sagnac effect.

But Michelson, a Nobel prize winner, claimed that the CORIOLIS EFFECT formula was the SAGNAC PHASE SHIFT formula, thus ensuring that for the next 90 years the RE would always win the debate on heliocentrism vs. geocentrism (not even the proponents of aether theory could not dismiss the MGX since they would have had to explain the fringe shifts measured by Michelson and by every ring laser interferometer since 1925).

Bilger et al (1995) and Anderson et al (1994) used the Sagnac phase shift formula derived by A. Michelson, which was actually the Coriolis effect equation.

H.R. Bilger, G.E. Stedman, Z. Li, U. Schreiber and M. Schneider, IEEE Trans. Instrum. Meas. 44(2), 468 (1995)
R. Anderson, H.R. Bilger and G.E. Stedman, Am. J. Phys. 62(11), 975 (1994)




However, the use the phase-conjugate mirror has allowed the greatest breakthroughs possible in ring laser interferometry.

Thus, the correct formula for the Sagnac phase shift for an interferometer located away from the center of rotation became possible:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2070082#msg2070082

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2070907#msg2070907

The rotational Sagnac effect formula is thousands of times greater than the Coriolis effect.

One is proportional to the velocity of the rotation (radius of Earth x angular velocity) and is an electromagnetic effect modifying the speed of the light beams; the other is proportional to the area of the interferometer and is a physical effect on the light beams.



« Last Edit: October 06, 2018, 08:23:56 AM by sandokhan »

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Offline Humble B

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Re: The Coriolis Effect - Wiki Page
« Reply #15 on: October 08, 2018, 01:54:39 PM »
The Coriolis effect on bullets amounts to some inches, while the effect of the wind could be even greater than this figure; that is why the UA proponents are justified to call into question the Coriolis force on projectiles.

The adepts of the UA hypothesis might even deny the existence of satellites, thus they do not have to explain the delay of the signal from the GPS satellites to  Earth, which is caused by the Coriolis effect of the ether drift.

Coriolis effects only occur in relation to observable rotating surfaces. If the earth you live on is not rotating but stationary, then there is no such thing as a "Coriolis effect" with your stationary earth as a reference frame.

If you believe there is a thing like "a rotating ether" then that is fine. But because we human beings do not have the senses to observe ether, neither rotating ether, this "ether drift" cannot be a reference frame for any observable Coriolis effect.

Maybe your "ether drift" can create forces that can alter the trajectory of flying objects, gasses or waves, but these forces should not be confused with what science calls the "Coriolis force" because this force only exists in relation to an observable reference frame and NEVER to an invisible reference frame.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2018, 01:56:37 PM by Humble B »
He who believes windmills are his enemies, will take the gentle turning of their blades an act of aggression, and mistake their soft murmur for angry ranting.

Re: The Coriolis Effect - Wiki Page
« Reply #16 on: October 08, 2018, 02:08:42 PM »
In the RE version, the Coriolis force is fictitious.

However, in the FE description, the Coriolis force is very real: it is caused by the rotation of the ether drift above the surface of the Earth.

Is there a way to precisely distinguish between the two choices?

There certainly is: the Michelson-Gale experiment.

Michelson published in 1904 and 1925 a certain formula, which turns out to be the CORIOLIS EFFECT formula for light beams.

Full derivation of the above formula using the CORIOLIS FORCE:

https://www.ias.ac.in/article/fulltext/pram/087/05/0071

Dr. Ludwik Silberstein derived the same formula in 1921:

https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=30499.msg2068289#msg2068289

The unbelievable trick used by Michelson was to claim that this formula was actually the SAGNAC EFFECT formula.

Here is the formula derived by Michelson:

dt = 4ωA/c^2

Here is the correct rotational SAGNAC EFFECT formula:



Michelson and Gale recorded ONLY the Coriolis effect, and not the rotational Sagnac effect.

That is, the Earth does not rotate: only the Coriolis effect of the ether drift was registered by the fringe shifts of the interferometer.

Curiosity File

Re: The Coriolis Effect - Wiki Page
« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2018, 07:14:19 PM »
The Coriolis effect on bullets amounts to some inches, while the effect of the wind could be even greater than this figure; that is why the UA proponents are justified to call into question the Coriolis force on projectiles.

The adepts of the UA hypothesis might even deny the existence of satellites, thus they do not have to explain the delay of the signal from the GPS satellites to  Earth, which is caused by the Coriolis effect of the ether drift.

Coriolis effects only occur in relation to observable rotating surfaces. If the earth you live on is not rotating but stationary, then there is no such thing as a "Coriolis effect" with your stationary earth as a reference frame.

If you believe there is a thing like "a rotating ether" then that is fine. But because we human beings do not have the senses to observe ether, neither rotating ether, this "ether drift" cannot be a reference frame for any observable Coriolis effect.

Maybe your "ether drift" can create forces that can alter the trajectory of flying objects, gasses or waves, but these forces should not be confused with what science calls the "Coriolis force" because this force only exists in relation to an observable reference frame and NEVER to an invisible reference frame.

Here's something you might interested in
Coriolis flow meters.
There's huge industry in the design, engineering,  development, manufacturing and marketing of these meters for various applications.
I'm not finding it today,yet, but one of these devises I read about said it measure the seed the earth rotates and had specificity application/s for this, but here's a start. 

https://www.omega.com/technical-learning/what-is-a-coriolis-flow-meter.html

https://www.flowcontrolnetwork.com/the-coriolis-effect/

https://www.instrumart.com/categories/5678/coriolis-mass-flow-meters?gclid=Cj0KCQjw6fvdBRCbARIsABGZ-vQnHAZkaX2TBIs71J2zFl83ReW_yQHym2C9myJQ3n1-pggg4E8zg4caAsJ3EALw_wcB

Curiosity File

Re: The Coriolis Effect - Wiki Page
« Reply #18 on: October 11, 2018, 07:37:30 PM »
Proof that experimentation, testing, design and development, sales and marketing, consumer and deployment of devise that compensate for the "Coriolis Effect" do indeed exist indicate that the statements in FE wiki need to be corrected.


Excerpt
Safran is an international high-technology group, operating in the aircraft propulsion and equipment, space and defense markets. Safran has a global presence, with more than 58,000 employees and sales of 16.5 billion euros in 2017. Safran is listed on the Euronext Paris stock exchange, and is part of the CAC 40 and Euro Stoxx 50 indices.

Safran Optics 1 is a leader in the design, development, and manufacturing of integrated electro-optical systems and subsystems for defense and law enforcement agencies.  Leveraging core competencies in electro-optics, day and night imaging, laser range finding, and digital magnetic compass technology, Optics 1 is able to provide exceptional electro-optical systems for warfighter and law enforcement missions.  Optics 1 is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Safran Electronics & Defense.

For more information: www.safran-group.com and www.safran-electronics-defense.com / Follow @Safran and @SafranElecDef on Twitter

"Thanks to its robust algorithms and high performance HRG CrystalTM gyroscopes, PAVAM finds true north very quickly by sensing the earth's rotation(SENSING THE EARTHS ROTATION) and determining the azimuth to north. Without any calibration phase, PAVAM provides accurate latitude information. This allows the Soldier to perform precision targeting missions with greater reliability, faster, and with lighter equipment than ever before."

Source
https://www.safran-electronics-defense.com/media/more-100-precision-azimuth-vertical-angle-module-pavam-delivered-safran-optics-1-2017-20180611
   

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: The Coriolis Effect - Wiki Page
« Reply #19 on: October 13, 2018, 03:17:16 AM »
Proof that experimentation, testing, design and development, sales and marketing, consumer and deployment of devise that compensate for the "Coriolis Effect" do indeed exist indicate that the statements in FE wiki need to be corrected.

Excerpt
Safran is an international high-technology group, operating in the aircraft propulsion and equipment, space and defense markets. Safran has a global presence, with more than 58,000 employees and sales of 16.5 billion euros in 2017. Safran is listed on the Euronext Paris stock exchange, and is part of the CAC 40 and Euro Stoxx 50 indices.

Safran Optics 1 is a leader in the design, development, and manufacturing of integrated electro-optical systems and subsystems for defense and law enforcement agencies.  Leveraging core competencies in electro-optics, day and night imaging, laser range finding, and digital magnetic compass technology, Optics 1 is able to provide exceptional electro-optical systems for warfighter and law enforcement missions.  Optics 1 is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Safran Electronics & Defense.

For more information: www.safran-group.com and www.safran-electronics-defense.com / Follow @Safran and @SafranElecDef on Twitter

"Thanks to its robust algorithms and high performance HRG CrystalTM gyroscopes, PAVAM finds true north very quickly by sensing the earth's rotation(SENSING THE EARTHS ROTATION) and determining the azimuth to north. Without any calibration phase, PAVAM provides accurate latitude information. This allows the Soldier to perform precision targeting missions with greater reliability, faster, and with lighter equipment than ever before."

Source
https://www.safran-electronics-defense.com/media/more-100-precision-azimuth-vertical-angle-module-pavam-delivered-safran-optics-1-2017-20180611

This is more about the gyrocompass, which is a separate subject than the Coriolis Effect.

It operates on slight weight changes.

https://books.google.com/books?id=PiEDAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA91&ots=s0slhdUupv&pg=PA91#v=onepage&q&f=false



It is known that there is a southerly deflection phenomenon. We were talking about the odd southern deflections in the falling body experients.

A researcher in Russia performed experiments which saw odd southerly deflections which defied classical mechanics:

http://www.chronos.msu.ru/old/EREPORTS/levich_substan_inter/levich_substan_inter.htm

Quote
One of Kozyrev’s early papers (Kozyrev 1958) describes in detail the experiments on anomalous southern deflection of bodies falling in the Earth’s gravitational field, from Hooke’s experiments of 1680 to that of Kozyrev, arranged at Pulkovo.

The northern deflection effect “is observed by vibration of any nonrotating body suspended to a filament. The conditions necessary for obtaining the pendulum displacement effect due to the Earth’s rotation, are quite similar to the above conditions of gyro displacement... These experiments were carried out at Pulkovo with pendulums of different lengths, from 1.5 to 11 meters. The fractional displacement turned out to be independent of pendulum length... Thus the displacement is caused by a certain force, independent of pendulum construction. This force significantly varies with geographic latitude... No doubt, the forces measured by pendulum displacements are horizontal projections of asymmetric forces active at the surface of the Earth. As for vertical projections of the same asymmetric forces, one can try to obtain them by vibrating the system with a vertical degree of freedom” (Kozyrev 1963, p.107). “The simplest system of this kind is a beam balance. Assume that a weight is suspended at one end of the beam by a rigid suspension able to transfer beam vibrations to the weight. The other, balancing weight was suspended to rubber shock-absorbers which damp all the oscillations. Then, as the balance vibrates, it is possible to observe oscillating weight reduction...

He believed that the earth was round, and speculated on some kind of force inherent in nature that deflected southwards, but it is difficult to understand his exact theory. He did perform several experiments which showed southern deflection, whatever his theory about it might be.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2018, 10:09:06 AM by Tom Bishop »