Offline iamcpc

  • *
  • Posts: 832
    • View Profile
Question about flight times
« on: March 14, 2018, 12:50:35 AM »
I can fly from Bejing China to Los Angeles USA in 13 hours (the yellow line on the image which is about 3 CM)

I can also fly from Santiago, Chile to Sydney Australia in about 14.5 hours (the black line on the image which is about 9 CM).

Both planes are a Boeing 747 which has a a top speed around 600 miles per hour. Based on this how can the attached map possibly be correct?

https://imgur.com/a/WASO5
« Last Edit: April 05, 2018, 10:19:59 AM by iamcpc »

Offline Frocious

  • *
  • Posts: 188
    • View Profile
Re: Question about flight times
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2018, 09:08:09 PM »
I can fly from Bejing China to Los Angeles USA in 13 hours (the yellow line on the image which is about 3 CM)

I can also fly from Johannesburg Afria to Sydney Australia in just under 13 hours (the black line on the image which is about 9 CM).

Both planes are a Boeing 747 which has a a top speed around 600 miles per hour. Based on this how can the attached map possibly be correct?

https://imgur.com/a/WASO5

This sort of question always gets ignored. As someone who is fascinated by the FE mindset, can anyone tell me why? And why doesn't it matter to FE'rs that they apparently cannot answer it?

Re: Question about flight times
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2018, 09:21:33 PM »
I can fly from Bejing China to Los Angeles USA in 13 hours (the yellow line on the image which is about 3 CM)

I can also fly from Johannesburg Afria to Sydney Australia in just under 13 hours (the black line on the image which is about 9 CM).

Both planes are a Boeing 747 which has a a top speed around 600 miles per hour. Based on this how can the attached map possibly be correct?

https://imgur.com/a/WASO5

This sort of question always gets ignored. As someone who is fascinated by the FE mindset, can anyone tell me why? And why doesn't it matter to FE'rs that they apparently cannot answer it?
If you care to go looking, there's a semi-recent thread by use 3DGeek around that ended up getting some attention. I can't say why they don't engage them normally, but Tom's argument essentially boiled down to: "We don't know actual overland distances, and as such have no idea the speed planes fly. As such, any argument made using flight times can't show that planes fly at the same speed all over, much less that the speeds are correct." Paraphrasing a little bit, but that was the general idea.

Offline Frocious

  • *
  • Posts: 188
    • View Profile
Re: Question about flight times
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2018, 09:56:20 PM »
I can fly from Bejing China to Los Angeles USA in 13 hours (the yellow line on the image which is about 3 CM)

I can also fly from Johannesburg Afria to Sydney Australia in just under 13 hours (the black line on the image which is about 9 CM).

Both planes are a Boeing 747 which has a a top speed around 600 miles per hour. Based on this how can the attached map possibly be correct?

https://imgur.com/a/WASO5

This sort of question always gets ignored. As someone who is fascinated by the FE mindset, can anyone tell me why? And why doesn't it matter to FE'rs that they apparently cannot answer it?
If you care to go looking, there's a semi-recent thread by use 3DGeek around that ended up getting some attention. I can't say why they don't engage them normally, but Tom's argument essentially boiled down to: "We don't know actual overland distances, and as such have no idea the speed planes fly. As such, any argument made using flight times can't show that planes fly at the same speed all over, much less that the speeds are correct." Paraphrasing a little bit, but that was the general idea.

Ah, I see. I wonder how far we can measure before we aren't sure? Are football fields always 100 yards? Are mile markers on highways inaccurate? And if so, by how much?

*

Offline AATW

  • *
  • Posts: 6535
    • View Profile
Re: Question about flight times
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2018, 10:28:26 PM »
If you care to go looking, there's a semi-recent thread by use 3DGeek around that ended up getting some attention. I can't say why they don't engage them normally, but Tom's argument essentially boiled down to: "We don't know actual overland distances, and as such have no idea the speed planes fly. As such, any argument made using flight times can't show that planes fly at the same speed all over, much less that the speeds are correct." Paraphrasing a little bit, but that was the general idea.
I think there was then some silliness after the infamous "the distance from Paris to New York is unknown" comment when it was pointed out that transatlantic cables are laid so clearly they need to know how much cable they need. It then descended into crazy claims denying that. The bending over backwards he does to avoid budging a single inch on any topic is ridiculous.
I do wonder if he's just a troll.

Flight times and the 24 hour Antarctic sun both clearly show that the model as shown in the Wiki doesn't work.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

Re: Question about flight times
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2018, 01:10:14 PM »
I can fly from Bejing China to Los Angeles USA in 13 hours (the yellow line on the image which is about 3 CM)

I can also fly from Johannesburg Afria to Sydney Australia in just under 13 hours (the black line on the image which is about 9 CM).

Both planes are a Boeing 747 which has a a top speed around 600 miles per hour. Based on this how can the attached map possibly be correct?

https://imgur.com/a/WASO5

This sort of question always gets ignored. As someone who is fascinated by the FE mindset, can anyone tell me why? And why doesn't it matter to FE'rs that they apparently cannot answer it?
If you care to go looking, there's a semi-recent thread by use 3DGeek around that ended up getting some attention. I can't say why they don't engage them normally, but Tom's argument essentially boiled down to: "We don't know actual overland distances, and as such have no idea the speed planes fly. As such, any argument made using flight times can't show that planes fly at the same speed all over, much less that the speeds are correct." Paraphrasing a little bit, but that was the general idea.

Ah, I see. I wonder how far we can measure before we aren't sure? Are football fields always 100 yards? Are mile markers on highways inaccurate? And if so, by how much?
Not sure on any of that. I asked a number of times what the difference would be between a mile on a RE and a mile on a FE, but never received a response. If you care to look through that thread, it's actually the second one in my signature. Be forewarned, I bring it up as a resource because it IS a resource. The thread spanned out to 20 pages in length, with plenty of responses about things from FE people (mostly Tom as I recall). There's a lot of info in there. If you missed the time 3D was active on the forums he did a number of good threads. There's a mistake or two in some, but overall very well done stuff.

Offline iamcpc

  • *
  • Posts: 832
    • View Profile
Re: Question about flight times
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2018, 01:50:53 AM »


This sort of question always gets ignored. As someone who is fascinated by the FE mindset, can anyone tell me why? And why doesn't it matter to FE'rs that they apparently cannot answer it?

it's so bizarre to me

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 10697
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
Re: Question about flight times
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2018, 03:03:17 AM »


This sort of question always gets ignored. As someone who is fascinated by the FE mindset, can anyone tell me why? And why doesn't it matter to FE'rs that they apparently cannot answer it?

it's so bizarre to me


Maybe because we've talked about it a million times over the last 10 years between both forums and now we mainly just comment on topics we are interested in?

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 10697
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
Re: Question about flight times
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2018, 03:09:39 AM »
I can fly from Bejing China to Los Angeles USA in 13 hours (the yellow line on the image which is about 3 CM)

I can also fly from Johannesburg Afria to Sydney Australia in just under 13 hours (the black line on the image which is about 9 CM).

Both planes are a Boeing 747 which has a a top speed around 600 miles per hour. Based on this how can the attached map possibly be correct?

https://imgur.com/a/WASO5

This sort of question always gets ignored. As someone who is fascinated by the FE mindset, can anyone tell me why? And why doesn't it matter to FE'rs that they apparently cannot answer it?
If you care to go looking, there's a semi-recent thread by use 3DGeek around that ended up getting some attention. I can't say why they don't engage them normally, but Tom's argument essentially boiled down to: "We don't know actual overland distances, and as such have no idea the speed planes fly. As such, any argument made using flight times can't show that planes fly at the same speed all over, much less that the speeds are correct." Paraphrasing a little bit, but that was the general idea.

Ah, I see. I wonder how far we can measure before we aren't sure? Are football fields always 100 yards? Are mile markers on highways inaccurate? And if so, by how much?
Not sure on any of that. I asked a number of times what the difference would be between a mile on a RE and a mile on a FE, but never received a response. If you care to look through that thread, it's actually the second one in my signature. Be forewarned, I bring it up as a resource because it IS a resource. The thread spanned out to 20 pages in length, with plenty of responses about things from FE people (mostly Tom as I recall). There's a lot of info in there. If you missed the time 3D was active on the forums he did a number of good threads. There's a mistake or two in some, but overall very well done stuff.

I recall answering your question when you asked it. A mile is 5280 feet on FE and RE. The premise was that long distance systems based on a spherical coordinate systems are inaccurate in measuring a mile. Those systems are inaccurate.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2018, 03:22:28 AM by Tom Bishop »

*

Offline Tom Bishop

  • Zetetic Council Member
  • **
  • Posts: 10697
  • Flat Earth Believer
    • View Profile
Re: Question about flight times
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2018, 03:11:41 AM »
If you care to go looking, there's a semi-recent thread by use 3DGeek around that ended up getting some attention. I can't say why they don't engage them normally, but Tom's argument essentially boiled down to: "We don't know actual overland distances, and as such have no idea the speed planes fly. As such, any argument made using flight times can't show that planes fly at the same speed all over, much less that the speeds are correct." Paraphrasing a little bit, but that was the general idea.
I think there was then some silliness after the infamous "the distance from Paris to New York is unknown" comment when it was pointed out that transatlantic cables are laid so clearly they need to know how much cable they need. It then descended into crazy claims denying that. The bending over backwards he does to avoid budging a single inch on any topic is ridiculous.
I do wonder if he's just a troll.

Flight times and the 24 hour Antarctic sun both clearly show that the model as shown in the Wiki doesn't work.

I recently posted some quotes showing that there was 15% surplus cable laid on the transatlantic route. See my post history.

Re: Question about flight times
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2018, 03:45:32 AM »
If you care to go looking, there's a semi-recent thread by use 3DGeek around that ended up getting some attention. I can't say why they don't engage them normally, but Tom's argument essentially boiled down to: "We don't know actual overland distances, and as such have no idea the speed planes fly. As such, any argument made using flight times can't show that planes fly at the same speed all over, much less that the speeds are correct." Paraphrasing a little bit, but that was the general idea.
I think there was then some silliness after the infamous "the distance from Paris to New York is unknown" comment when it was pointed out that transatlantic cables are laid so clearly they need to know how much cable they need. It then descended into crazy claims denying that. The bending over backwards he does to avoid budging a single inch on any topic is ridiculous.
I do wonder if he's just a troll.

Flight times and the 24 hour Antarctic sun both clearly show that the model as shown in the Wiki doesn't work.

I recently posted some quotes showing that there was 15% surplus cable laid on the transatlantic route. See my post history.
That was not recently, we now have the WGS-84 model.

Offline Frocious

  • *
  • Posts: 188
    • View Profile
Re: Question about flight times
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2018, 06:02:03 AM »
If you care to go looking, there's a semi-recent thread by use 3DGeek around that ended up getting some attention. I can't say why they don't engage them normally, but Tom's argument essentially boiled down to: "We don't know actual overland distances, and as such have no idea the speed planes fly. As such, any argument made using flight times can't show that planes fly at the same speed all over, much less that the speeds are correct." Paraphrasing a little bit, but that was the general idea.
I think there was then some silliness after the infamous "the distance from Paris to New York is unknown" comment when it was pointed out that transatlantic cables are laid so clearly they need to know how much cable they need. It then descended into crazy claims denying that. The bending over backwards he does to avoid budging a single inch on any topic is ridiculous.
I do wonder if he's just a troll.

Flight times and the 24 hour Antarctic sun both clearly show that the model as shown in the Wiki doesn't work.

I recently posted some quotes showing that there was 15% surplus cable laid on the transatlantic route. See my post history.

Yes, and it was clear that you misinterpreted the excerpts.

Devils Advocate

Re: Question about flight times
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2018, 06:11:52 AM »
The map can be denied (without an alternative offered) the distances can be refuted or the pilots/airlines can be brought into the conspiracy, whichever suits the particular phase of the debate.

Offline iamcpc

  • *
  • Posts: 832
    • View Profile
Re: Question about flight times
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2018, 02:43:49 PM »
Maybe because we've talked about it a million times over the last 10 years between both forums and now we mainly just comment on topics we are interested in?

Where?

Offline iamcpc

  • *
  • Posts: 832
    • View Profile
Re: Question about flight times
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2018, 04:43:53 PM »

Maybe because we've talked about it a million times over the last 10 years between both forums and now we mainly just comment on topics we are interested in?

I've really been trying to research this and I've been unable to find anything. Can someone please help me?

Re: Question about flight times
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2018, 06:04:34 PM »
I saw a youtube video by a guy called TigerDan trying to create a map based on flight times. Fella ended up with 2 Australias. I just came about a video from same guy debunking Flat Earth as he saw that the map couldn't work primarily because of this problem.

Most flat earth theorists try to work around this problem by either saying these flights do not exist, or that the flights take a longer time/different route than they claim - basically an extension of the conspiracy.

I think there are just too many ways to excuse away these simple facts that it really is just simpler to say the southern hemisphere has more or less the same surface area as the northern hemisphere - only possible on a sphere.

*

Offline AATW

  • *
  • Posts: 6535
    • View Profile
Re: Question about flight times
« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2018, 08:00:52 PM »
You just end up with silly claims like airlines don't know how fast their planes are going so don't accurately know how far they fly between cities.
It's the only way you can cling to flat earth, if you concede that airlines are actually able to work out how fast they fly then you're left with sets of distances which cannot work on a flat plane.
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

Offline iamcpc

  • *
  • Posts: 832
    • View Profile
Re: Question about flight times
« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2018, 08:07:30 PM »
You just end up with silly claims like airlines don't know how fast their planes are going so don't accurately know how far they fly between cities.
It's the only way you can cling to flat earth, if you concede that airlines are actually able to work out how fast they fly then you're left with sets of distances which cannot work on a flat plane.


Tom bishop said
Quote
Maybe because we've talked about it a million times over the last 10 years between both forums and now we mainly just comment on topics we are interested in?

Can someone please help me find out where the millions of explanations between both forums? I tried on the other flat earth forum too and the only flat earth person stopped responding when I was asking if the layout of the flat earth map was incorrect.

*

Offline AATW

  • *
  • Posts: 6535
    • View Profile
Re: Question about flight times
« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2018, 08:53:45 PM »
Tom bishop said
Quote
Maybe because we've talked about it a million times over the last 10 years between both forums and now we mainly just comment on topics we are interested in?

Can someone please help me find out where the millions of explanations between both forums? I tried on the other flat earth forum too and the only flat earth person stopped responding when I was asking if the layout of the flat earth map was incorrect.

There's this thread.

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=6633.0
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

Offline iamcpc

  • *
  • Posts: 832
    • View Profile
Re: Question about flight times
« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2018, 09:30:46 PM »
Tom bishop said
Quote
Maybe because we've talked about it a million times over the last 10 years between both forums and now we mainly just comment on topics we are interested in?

Can someone please help me find out where the millions of explanations between both forums? I tried on the other flat earth forum too and the only flat earth person stopped responding when I was asking if the layout of the flat earth map was incorrect.

There's this thread.

https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=6633.0

I read this. The first reply was because 3 angles of a triangle add up to 180 the earth is flat. That does nothing to answer my questions about flight times and how the flat earth map on my post can possibly be correct.

There was also

The distance from New York to Paris is unknown.

Again my post has nothing to do with the distance between New York and Paris.


There were concerns about GPS accuracy. Also claims that GPS is round earth propaganda etc. My questions has nothing to do with GPS.





There were lots of questions about distances and how to know how far you have traveled. Claims that distances were based on a round earth and not a flat earth.

My scale distances (3 CM for one line and 9 CM for the second) were based entirely on a map of the flat earth. So any round earth distances found from a round earth source do not apply.




There were claims that speeds and distances are based on a round earth model.

The speed in question can be thrown out. We can just say that both planes are traveling the same speed.