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Offline AATW

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #860 on: April 03, 2022, 06:36:08 PM »
Yes, the coherency of the US President is important.
Agreed.

Stuff like this will get Biden a lot of negative press covfefe
Tom: "Claiming incredulity is a pretty bad argument. Calling it "insane" or "ridiculous" is not a good argument at all."

TFES Wiki Occam's Razor page, by Tom: "What's the simplest explanation; that NASA has successfully designed and invented never before seen rocket technologies from scratch which can accelerate 100 tons of matter to an escape velocity of 7 miles per second"

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Offline stack

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #861 on: April 03, 2022, 06:45:33 PM »
Actually, it's not possible to state that Joe Biden should stop speaking without it being an opinion. All narratives, interpretations, suggestions, and insights are opinions. The criticism of "that's an opinion!" is terrible and childish. No effort to show that the author is wrong at all.

Correct, no effort shown that the author was wrong about how 'Biden will make America lead again'.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #862 on: April 03, 2022, 07:12:13 PM »
Actually, it's not possible to state that Joe Biden should stop speaking without it being an opinion. All narratives, interpretations, suggestions, and insights are opinions. The criticism of "that's an opinion!" is terrible and childish. No effort to show that the author is wrong at all.

Correct, no effort shown that the author was wrong about how 'Biden will make America lead again'.

Yeah, that article has nothing to do with Joe Biden flubs or the article posted about it. Argument via avoidance.  ::)

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Offline stack

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #863 on: April 03, 2022, 09:36:47 PM »
Actually, it's not possible to state that Joe Biden should stop speaking without it being an opinion. All narratives, interpretations, suggestions, and insights are opinions. The criticism of "that's an opinion!" is terrible and childish. No effort to show that the author is wrong at all.

Correct, no effort shown that the author was wrong about how 'Biden will make America lead again'.

Yeah, that article has nothing to do with Joe Biden flubs or the article posted about it. Argument via avoidance.  ::)

No, it's an argument about the veracity of opinion pieces. I don't think anyone would contest that Biden is the master at flubs and gaffes. Nothing new. He's been notorious for that for decades. So some guy thinks that Biden shouldn't speak anymore? Cool opinion from some guy. I had the same opinion about DJT. Some guy also wrote an opinion piece saying Biden is the guy we need to lead America and reestablish our good faith and dominance in the world. Another cool opinion from some guy. In the same publication.

So what? Do you put more faith in the opinion that fits your narrative? If so, good for you. Now two guys have that opinion. So what? I mean what's your point? That some guy wrote something as an opinion you agree with? Wow, amazing stuff. Keep providing us with these amazing insights and opinions you share with some guy.  ::)

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Offline honk

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #864 on: April 03, 2022, 10:02:34 PM »
The WSJ's opinion piece (link is to another website to avoid their paywall) is not a sincere plea made in good faith by an objective observer; it's a sarcastic piece of vitriol from a notoriously right-wing editorial board. The author is dramatically exaggerating the incoherence of the cited snippets from Biden's statements. It's clear what he's saying in both instances, and to interpret them as Biden possibly threatening to use chemical weapons is just willful stupidity.

The same thing applies to the Jill Biden comment that started this whole dumb discussion. Obviously Biden was referring to himself being the VP, not his wife. It was a minor, easy mistake to make that in no way obscured the meaning of what he was saying. All conservatives are doing by playing dumb in response to every verbal stumble from Biden is making themselves look dumb.
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Offline Tumeni

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #865 on: April 03, 2022, 10:07:33 PM »
Yes, the coherency of the US President is important.

OK, so you've been active here a while ... you jumped on every flub of every previous President, didn't you? You were even-handed, you didn't favour one over the other, and you pointed out all of their flubs, regardless of which party they were from .... right?
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Offline Action80

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #866 on: April 04, 2022, 11:15:25 AM »
A more positive spin on the concept is simply that it's people supporting laws, policies, or agendas that they feel benefit or protect those of the group or class of people which they identify with or belong to. Politicians of both parties have for decades made explicit calls for the support of members of various groups or classes, insisting that their election will be the best outcome for people of that group or class in particular. It's hardly a phenomenon unique to Democrats.
You think that's positive, uh?
To be honest I am getting pretty bored of this place.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #867 on: April 04, 2022, 05:11:27 PM »
Hey look. The Washington Post Editorial Board is admitting complicity in covering up the the Hunter Biden Laptop story. Looks like it was a false narrative after all and honk was wrong that the laptop was fake.

https://web.archive.org/web/20220403141320/https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/04/03/hunter-biden-story-is-an-opportunity-reckoning/

Quote
Opinion: The Hunter Biden story is an opportunity for a reckoning
By Editorial Board


...

For now, what’s more compelling than the assorted accusations about the Bidens’ behavior is this question: Why is confirmation of a story that first surfaced in the fall of 2020 emerging only now? When the New York Post published its blockbuster exclusive on the contents of a laptop said to have been abandoned at a Delaware repair shop by Hunter Biden, mainstream media organizations balked at running with the same narrative. Social media sites displayed even greater caution. Twitter blocked the story altogether, pointing to a policy against hacked materials, and suspended the New York Post’s account for sharing it; Facebook downranked the story in the algorithms that govern users’ news feeds for fear that it was based on misinformation. Now, The Washington Post and the New York Times have vouched for many of the relevant communications.

This series of events has prompted allegations of a coverup, or at best a double standard in the treatment of conservative and liberal politicians by mainstream media and social media sites. Yet there was reason in this case for reluctance on the part of the publications and the platforms alike. Both had been the unwitting tools of a Russian influence campaign in 2016, and it was only prudent to suspect a similar plot lay behind the mysterious appearance of a computer stuffed with juicy documents and conveniently handed over to President Donald Trump’s toxic personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani.

Quote from: stack
No, it's an argument about the veracity of opinion pieces. I don't think anyone would contest that Biden is the master at flubs and gaffes. Nothing new. He's been notorious for that for decades. So some guy thinks that Biden shouldn't speak anymore? Cool opinion from some guy. I had the same opinion about DJT.

Yeah, major media outlets pleading with the President to stop publicly speaking and causing chaos with his numerous flubs and gaffes is totally normal.  ::)
« Last Edit: April 04, 2022, 05:18:20 PM by Tom Bishop »

Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #868 on: April 04, 2022, 06:02:32 PM »
lol a laptop magically appears from the aether, has absolutely no documented chain of custody, gets passed around between a bunch of gop fixers, and i'm supposed to automatically believe that everything on it is authentic. lmao. get real.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2022, 06:50:25 PM by garygreen »
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Offline stack

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #869 on: April 04, 2022, 06:33:31 PM »
Hey look. The Washington Post Editorial Board is admitting complicity in covering up the the Hunter Biden Laptop story. Looks like it was a false narrative after all and honk was wrong that the laptop was fake.

https://web.archive.org/web/20220403141320/https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/04/03/hunter-biden-story-is-an-opportunity-reckoning/

Quote
Opinion: The Hunter Biden story is an opportunity for a reckoning
By Editorial Board


...

For now, what’s more compelling than the assorted accusations about the Bidens’ behavior is this question: Why is confirmation of a story that first surfaced in the fall of 2020 emerging only now? When the New York Post published its blockbuster exclusive on the contents of a laptop said to have been abandoned at a Delaware repair shop by Hunter Biden, mainstream media organizations balked at running with the same narrative. Social media sites displayed even greater caution. Twitter blocked the story altogether, pointing to a policy against hacked materials, and suspended the New York Post’s account for sharing it; Facebook downranked the story in the algorithms that govern users’ news feeds for fear that it was based on misinformation. Now, The Washington Post and the New York Times have vouched for many of the relevant communications.

This series of events has prompted allegations of a coverup, or at best a double standard in the treatment of conservative and liberal politicians by mainstream media and social media sites. Yet there was reason in this case for reluctance on the part of the publications and the platforms alike. Both had been the unwitting tools of a Russian influence campaign in 2016, and it was only prudent to suspect a similar plot lay behind the mysterious appearance of a computer stuffed with juicy documents and conveniently handed over to President Donald Trump’s toxic personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani.

You left off this bit, right at the end of your quote:

Indeed, at the time there was also an ongoing disinformation operation from Moscow involving — among other things — doctored recordings supposedly showing Joe Biden improperly pressuring the then-president of Ukraine to aid Hunter Biden’s business interests — a fraud promoted by Mr. Giuliani.

And this:

This context doesn’t necessarily exonerate every action of every publication and platform. It makes obvious sense for newspapers to wait to verify information before turning it into a story; the harder conundrum is what to do with true information that comes from a hack, and harder still is how to treat true information that hasn’t been stolen but has been selectively shared to further an agenda. Social media sites face a tougher choice when it comes to whether and how to dampen the spread of a story when they’re unsure of its truthfulness or origins. None of these dilemmas have easy answers. The lesson learned from 2016 was evidently to err on the side of setting aside questionable material in the heat of a political campaign. The lesson learned from 2020 may well be that there’s also a danger of suppressing accurate and relevant stories.

Quote from: stack
No, it's an argument about the veracity of opinion pieces. I don't think anyone would contest that Biden is the master at flubs and gaffes. Nothing new. He's been notorious for that for decades. So some guy thinks that Biden shouldn't speak anymore? Cool opinion from some guy. I had the same opinion about DJT.

Yeah, major media outlets pleading with the President to stop publicly speaking and causing chaos with his numerous flubs and gaffes is totally normal.  ::)

I think you mean "outlet", not "outlets" and one opinion piece pleading.

“I was down there and I watched our police and our firemen down there on 7/11,”
“He’s not a war hero. He was a war hero because he was captured. I like people who weren’t captured.”
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"Covfefe"

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #870 on: April 04, 2022, 06:49:49 PM »
Hey look. The Washington Post Editorial Board is admitting complicity in covering up the the Hunter Biden Laptop story. Looks like it was a false narrative after all and honk was wrong that the laptop was fake.

https://web.archive.org/web/20220403141320/https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/04/03/hunter-biden-story-is-an-opportunity-reckoning/

Quote
Opinion: The Hunter Biden story is an opportunity for a reckoning
By Editorial Board


...

For now, what’s more compelling than the assorted accusations about the Bidens’ behavior is this question: Why is confirmation of a story that first surfaced in the fall of 2020 emerging only now? When the New York Post published its blockbuster exclusive on the contents of a laptop said to have been abandoned at a Delaware repair shop by Hunter Biden, mainstream media organizations balked at running with the same narrative. Social media sites displayed even greater caution. Twitter blocked the story altogether, pointing to a policy against hacked materials, and suspended the New York Post’s account for sharing it; Facebook downranked the story in the algorithms that govern users’ news feeds for fear that it was based on misinformation. Now, The Washington Post and the New York Times have vouched for many of the relevant communications.

This series of events has prompted allegations of a coverup, or at best a double standard in the treatment of conservative and liberal politicians by mainstream media and social media sites. Yet there was reason in this case for reluctance on the part of the publications and the platforms alike. Both had been the unwitting tools of a Russian influence campaign in 2016, and it was only prudent to suspect a similar plot lay behind the mysterious appearance of a computer stuffed with juicy documents and conveniently handed over to President Donald Trump’s toxic personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani.

Quote from: stack
No, it's an argument about the veracity of opinion pieces. I don't think anyone would contest that Biden is the master at flubs and gaffes. Nothing new. He's been notorious for that for decades. So some guy thinks that Biden shouldn't speak anymore? Cool opinion from some guy. I had the same opinion about DJT.

Yeah, major media outlets pleading with the President to stop publicly speaking and causing chaos with his numerous flubs and gaffes is totally normal.  ::)

Tuckerson also buried it.  Remember that?
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline stack

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #871 on: April 04, 2022, 08:28:45 PM »
Tucker Carlson Suddenly Says It’s Time to Leave Hunter Biden Alone

Fox News host Tucker Carlson, who has obsessively covered Hunter Biden’s emails since the story exploded in conservative media earlier this month, suddenly said on Thursday night that he didn’t want to be involved with “piling on” Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden’s son.

Hmmm, I wonder why...

Email leak reveals the surprising friendship between Hunter Biden and his 'buddy' Tucker Carlson, says report

Emails published by The Daily Mail appear to show a surprisingly close friendship between Hunter Biden and Fox News host Tucker Carlson.
In the emails, President Joe Biden's son tells Carlson that he loves him and his family and describes him as his "friend" and "buddy."
The Daily Mail said it found the emails on Hunter Biden's abandoned laptop, which was the subject of intense controversy before the 2020 presidential election.


One email exchange published by the outlet revealed that Biden wrote a letter of recommendation to Georgetown University for Carlson's son.

"Hunter! I can't thank you enough for writing that letter to Georgetown on Buckley's behalf," Carlson wrote in the email from November 2014.
"So nice of you. I know it'll help. Hope you're great and we can all get dinner soon. Tucker," the email continued.

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Offline honk

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #872 on: April 05, 2022, 02:35:42 AM »
The article Tom linked is an excellent example of the mainstream media weakly capitulating to unreasonable demands and claims from conservatives in a desperate attempt to convince them that they're not unfairly biased in favor of liberals. It'll never work. No matter how far to the right the media lurches, conservatives will never stop insisting that the media is unfairly biased in favor of liberals, because they're not saying that because it's what they actually believe - they're saying it because it's an excellent tactic to continually push the media further and further to the right, as well as a way to spread doubt in their followers' minds whenever the media report on news they don't like. Why would they ever abandon a winning strategy like that? The media are basically trying to referee a soccer game in which one side has given up trying to kick the ball and instead just picked it up and started running away with it. They simply can't accept that one side is now operating entirely in bad faith and should therefore be treated as such.
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #873 on: April 05, 2022, 09:50:56 PM »
The article Tom linked is an excellent example of the mainstream media weakly capitulating to unreasonable demands and claims from conservatives in a desperate attempt to convince them that they're not unfairly biased in favor of liberals. It'll never work. No matter how far to the right the media lurches, conservatives will never stop insisting that the media is unfairly biased in favor of liberals, because they're not saying that because it's what they actually believe - they're saying it because it's an excellent tactic to continually push the media further and further to the right, as well as a way to spread doubt in their followers' minds whenever the media report on news they don't like. Why would they ever abandon a winning strategy like that? The media are basically trying to referee a soccer game in which one side has given up trying to kick the ball and instead just picked it up and started running away with it. They simply can't accept that one side is now operating entirely in bad faith and should therefore be treated as such.

It seems that you missed the part where the WaPo article says:

Quote
Now, The Washington Post and the New York Times have vouched for many of the relevant communications.

In another WaPo article conceding that Hunter Biden Laptop emails are true a WaPo columnist admits that the original claims from mainstream media was disinformation and that mainstream media is not entirely trustworthy

https://web.archive.org/web/20220331171945/https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/03/27/mainstream-media-disinformation-hunter-biden/

Quote
Opinion: Mainstream media have failed to notice their own disinformation issue

...

An actual solution will require the recognition that we in the mainstream media are part of the problem: We are not trusted because we are not entirely trustworthy.

The New York Post says that the New York Times, Washington Post, CNN, CBS News, and others are joining the chase and conceding that the emails found on the Hunter Biden laptop are authentic:

https://nypost.com/2022/04/02/joe-biden-flying-too-close-to-the-son/

Quote
If there’s one thing Joe Biden doesn’t need, it’s more problems. With soaring inflation pushing household budgets into the red, crime rising everywhere, the southern border open to all comers and his agenda stalled in Congress, the 46th president is beyond beleaguered.

The Russian invasion of Ukraine and his efforts to rally NATO initially seemed to give him a second chance with disappointed voters. After Biden focused a big portion of his State of the Union address on the war, he did get a bump in the polls.

But it didn’t last, and even his recent trip to Europe that was filled with photo ops with refugees and tough, if bizarre, talk about Vladimir Putin couldn’t stop the spiral. Two surveys released since the president returned show him with just 38% and 39% approval, respectively.

These are dead-man-walking numbers, and another bombshell waits in the wings. This one has the potential to deliver a fatal blow to his presidency.

The federal probe of Hunter Biden is no longer taboo, and the media floodgates are opening. Where once The New York Post stood alone in reporting the skeezy details of the many millions the first son gained by selling his family name overseas, The New York Times, The Washington Post, CNN and CBS News, among others, are belatedly joining the chase and conceding e-mails found on a laptop Hunter abandoned are authentic, just as The Post said they were 17 months ago.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2022, 09:57:48 PM by Tom Bishop »

Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #874 on: April 05, 2022, 11:53:30 PM »
It seems that you missed the part where the WaPo article says:

Quote
Now, The Washington Post and the New York Times have vouched for many of the relevant communications.

it seems that you missed the part where nobody knows where the laptop came from or what was done with it while it was being passed around the hands of trump's inner circle. that many of the emails are valid does not actually imply that they all are. this is pretty important since the laptop has a completely unknown provenance and no documented chain of custody.

lmao your argument literally is "wapo and nyt say that document A is authentic. if wapo and nyt say it, then it must be true. and if document A is authentic, then document B must also be authentic because they are on the same laptop."

pathetic.
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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #875 on: April 06, 2022, 03:47:45 AM »
Wait... Is Tom trusting the NYT?  Oh man... He really is reaching, huh?

Even so, I haven't heard anything stating he'd give access to VP biden to anyone in exchange for money. 

Also, spoofing emails on a laptop's ost file that someone hacked into is not difficult.  Also, how did the NYT verify the emails were there?  And why didn't Tucker show them 17 months ago?

Clearly something is wrong...
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline honk

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #876 on: April 06, 2022, 04:16:47 AM »
snip

Showing me even more evidence of the media weakly capitulating to bad-faith right-wing complaints about their supposed liberal bias in a futile attempt to stop the criticism is hardly going to change my position. If you want me to go into specifics, though, then I'll be clear - none of this supposed vindication means that the media were wrong to treat this story as cautiously as they did. Known liars presented very sketchy sources who told an implausible story to a newspaper of dubious reliability - and all these people refused to share any of the evidence with any media outlets that they didn't feel were conservative enough. The media were not wrong to not blindly parrot the NYP's story; yes, even if it turns out that the story was largely true. You can't just boil it down to "The story was true; therefore repeating it was good and not repeating it was bad." That's simply not how it works, and Trump's team and the NYP have nobody to blame but themselves for their suspicious story being received with suspicion.

Also, the NYP's attempt to conflate this specific story with general news of Hunter being a failson who trades on his father's name, as indicated by "Where once The New York Post stood alone in reporting the skeezy details of the many millions the first son gained by selling his family name overseas," is absurd. Most people could intuit that Hunter was a loser who used his last name to get high-paying jobs back when Trump first tried to smear Biden as corrupt over the whole Burisma thing, long before the laptop or the investigation into his taxes became a story. There's a world of difference between Hunter being a self-serving failson and Hunter and his father being partners in an international corruption scheme, and it's perfectly reasonable to accept the former while questioning the latter.
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Offline Action80

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #877 on: April 06, 2022, 05:33:06 AM »

A voice so strong, you cannot help but listen.
To be honest I am getting pretty bored of this place.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #878 on: April 06, 2022, 06:02:59 AM »
Extremely sad.

« Last Edit: April 06, 2022, 06:07:26 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline stack

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Re: President Joe Biden
« Reply #879 on: April 06, 2022, 06:31:18 AM »
Apparently not. Your cherry-picked video snippet stopped too soon. Here's what happened after your video ends (41:36):



You'll fall for just about anything that feeds your narrative. Sad.