The Flat Earth Society

Other Discussion Boards => Philosophy, Religion & Society => Topic started by: Lord Dave on February 17, 2022, 01:41:48 PM

Title: Is a bear free?
Post by: Lord Dave on February 17, 2022, 01:41:48 PM
With all the talk about the canadian trucker protests and the protests against American mandates, I see alot of "Fight for freedom" and "mandates are tyranny!"

And it got me thinking... What is freedom?  How do we define it?  Where is that line where you stop being free and start being a slave or oppressed?

Which got me to the hypothetical question: is a bear free?

The bear is a wild bear in the woods somewhere.  (So no zoo animals)
Beyond that is a normal bear in the world.
Does it have freedom?


Pro:
He can shit anywhere he wants.
He's large enough that few predators will mess with him.
He can eat what he wants when he wants.

Con:
Humans hunt him.
Other bears may kill him.
Humans are constantly taking land, making your area to roam smaller or more densely populates. (ie. More bears in an area)
He is bound by biological processes like hybernation. 
Lacks sentience. (Maybe)



So... Is a bear free?
Title: Re: Is a bear free?
Post by: JSS on February 17, 2022, 01:53:11 PM
In the most extreme interpretation nobody can be free unless they are alone in the universe.

If two beings with free will exist in the same location, they now are unable to do everything they want because there is another will to oppose them.

No freedom is absolute.

Even alone, you are not free to disobey the laws of physics.

Any debate on freedom is a actually a debate on the limits of that freedom, it's pretty self evident that freedom itself is never going to be complete.
Title: Re: Is a bear free?
Post by: garygreen on February 17, 2022, 03:09:51 PM
dave, you're getting at the difference between freedom and liberty.
Title: Re: Is a bear free?
Post by: Rama Set on February 17, 2022, 03:26:07 PM
dave, you're getting at the difference between freedom and liberty.

Or negative vs positive freedom
Title: Re: Is a bear free?
Post by: Lord Dave on February 17, 2022, 04:19:54 PM
dave, you're getting at the difference between freedom and liberty.
I know nothing of bear society so I figured freedom was the better word to use.
Title: Re: Is a bear free?
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on February 17, 2022, 04:46:58 PM
In the most extreme interpretation nobody can be free unless they are alone in the universe.
That is extreme. I have this debate with someone on another board.
They describe themselves as a libertarian, but their issues seem to be mostly ideological rather than practical.
In practice we are pretty much free to do as we please in most Western countries but there is a societal contract which limits that freedom.
For most people it's a fair exchange though - you give up some freedoms, you pay taxes but in exchange you get safety and infrastructure.
If you want to go live on a desert island then sure, you can pretty much do as you please then because your actions won't affect anyone else. But while you're living in a society freedom as he defines it doesn't exist - can't exist. And I suspect, for all his whining, he does actually want all the infrastructure and the comfort and safety that brings.
Title: Re: Is a bear free?
Post by: Action80 on February 17, 2022, 05:43:21 PM
Free to communicate? - According to the OP and most others here, that should be done away with by any means possible, typically via the following methods: First, denigrate the presenter by any means possible. Second. label the communication as false. Repeat. Finally, if all else fails, demand harsh consequences be inflicted because the communication must be false...look who communicated it...
Free to defend? Not hardly.
Free assembly? Ha!

All these are inherent by nature, Providence, whatever you want to call it.

This site contains some of the most ardent anti-freedom entities ever witnessed.
Title: Re: Is a bear free?
Post by: Rama Set on February 17, 2022, 05:49:52 PM
Free to communicate? - According to the OP and most others here, that should be done away with by any means possible, typically via the following methods: First, denigrate the presenter by any means possible. Second. label the communication as false. Repeat. Finally, if all else fails, demand harsh consequences be inflicted because the communication must be false...look who communicated it...
Free to defend? Not hardly.
Free assembly? Ha!

All these are inherent by nature, Providence, whatever you want to call it.

This site contains some of the most ardent anti-freedom entities ever witnessed.

This sounds like you, to be honest.
Title: Re: Is a bear free?
Post by: Action80 on February 17, 2022, 05:56:24 PM
Free to communicate? - According to the OP and most others here, that should be done away with by any means possible, typically via the following methods: First, denigrate the presenter by any means possible. Second. label the communication as false. Repeat. Finally, if all else fails, demand harsh consequences be inflicted because the communication must be false...look who communicated it...
Free to defend? Not hardly.
Free assembly? Ha!

All these are inherent by nature, Providence, whatever you want to call it.

This site contains some of the most ardent anti-freedom entities ever witnessed.

This sounds like you, to be honest.
Hardly.

I did forget to add one thing.

Non-committal in written communication, with frequent displays of mental reservation and equivocation, are hallmarks of those who would most want actual freedom practiced.

Oh, let us not forget an oldie but a goody...

feigning tremendous personal harm has been done to themselves when simple, accurate words are used, such as normal and abnormal are used as accurate adjectives, and the person using such adjectives absolutely must be silenced.
Title: Re: Is a bear free?
Post by: Rama Set on February 17, 2022, 06:29:11 PM
Hardly.

Let’s go through your list:

First, denigrate the presenter by any means possible

From the banlist:

Quote
Action80   Repeated personal attacks. ~junker

Check.

Second. label the communication as false

Quit typing incorrect information and falsehoods.

Check.

Finally, if all else fails, demand harsh consequences be inflicted because the communication must be false

Kind of like your creepy list you were keeping or reporting me for asking that a detailed thread be split to the appropriate forum.

Yup. Definitely sounds like you.
Title: Re: Is a bear free?
Post by: JSS on February 17, 2022, 06:32:33 PM
This site contains some of the most ardent anti-freedom entities ever witnessed.

That is some highly exaggerated hyperbole and it doesn't even matter who you're talking about.  Nobody here on any side is even close to being on the top 100 list of "most ardent anti-freedom entities ever witnessed."

Read The Boy that Cried Wolf.  If everything is the "worst ever" then nobody will take you seriously someday when you really mean it.
Title: Re: Is a bear free?
Post by: Action80 on February 17, 2022, 07:50:36 PM
Hardly.

Let’s go through your list:

First, denigrate the presenter by any means possible

From the banlist:

Quote
Action80   Repeated personal attacks. ~junker

Check.
Explain how said denigrating in any particular instance you care to present is directed toward a purpose of eliminating personal liberty outside the confines of this forum.

Same goes for the rest of the issues you raise.

Answer- they don't.

This site contains some of the most ardent anti-freedom entities ever witnessed.

That is some highly exaggerated hyperbole and it doesn't even matter who you're talking about.  Nobody here on any side is even close to being on the top 100 list of "most ardent anti-freedom entities ever witnessed."

Read The Boy that Cried Wolf.  If everything is the "worst ever" then nobody will take you seriously someday when you really mean it.
Wrong, most, including you, cheered on mask and vaccine mandates, mocking those opposed as anti-vaxxers, additionally adding the possible motivation for those opposed to such measures as being personal freedom.

You were correct in the assessment as to their motivation and then demonstrated your  opposition to their position by attributing a supposed quote, "muh freedoms."
Title: Re: Is a bear free?
Post by: Rama Set on February 17, 2022, 08:22:07 PM
Explain how said denigrating in any particular instance you care to present is directed toward a purpose of eliminating personal liberty outside the confines of this forum.

Same goes for the rest of the issues you raise.

Answer- they don't.

It's you following your plan, according to your own criteria; that's pretty obvious.
Title: Re: Is a bear free?
Post by: Action80 on February 17, 2022, 08:36:54 PM
Explain how said denigrating in any particular instance you care to present is directed toward a purpose of eliminating personal liberty outside the confines of this forum.

Same goes for the rest of the issues you raise.

Answer- they don't.

It's you following your plan, according to your own criteria; that's pretty obvious.
Engagement of opposition within a defined enclosure =/= the parameters of the OP.  Anything obvious seems to be a matter of subjectivity on your part.
Title: Re: Is a bear free?
Post by: Rama Set on February 17, 2022, 08:45:07 PM
Explain how said denigrating in any particular instance you care to present is directed toward a purpose of eliminating personal liberty outside the confines of this forum.

Same goes for the rest of the issues you raise.

Answer- they don't.

It's you following your plan, according to your own criteria; that's pretty obvious.
Engagement of opposition within a defined enclosure =/= the parameters of the OP.  Anything obvious seems to be a matter of subjectivity on your part.

This is the problem with your “plan” in the first place. It will always require considerable subjectivity. Regardless, you frequently attack the poster rather than the content, declare people’s statements as falsehoods and try and you have definitely tried to prompt moderator action on them. You fit your own description of someone who is anti-freedom. Seeing as this is not a public forum, it seems nonsensical to assert these freedoms here, but hey ho.
Title: Re: Is a bear free?
Post by: Action80 on February 17, 2022, 08:59:51 PM
Explain how said denigrating in any particular instance you care to present is directed toward a purpose of eliminating personal liberty outside the confines of this forum.

Same goes for the rest of the issues you raise.

Answer- they don't.

It's you following your plan, according to your own criteria; that's pretty obvious.
Engagement of opposition within a defined enclosure =/= the parameters of the OP.  Anything obvious seems to be a matter of subjectivity on your part.

This is the problem with your “plan” in the first place. It will always require considerable subjectivity. Regardless, you frequently attack the poster rather than the content, declare people’s statements as falsehoods and try and you have definitely tried to prompt moderator action on them. You fit your own description of someone who is anti-freedom. Seeing as this is not a public forum, it seems nonsensical to assert these freedoms here, but hey ho.
Thank you for pointing out the off topic nature of your reply.

Now, back to the subject of why personal liberties are being extinguished.

A great deal of the "why," is embodied by multiple entities present in this forum.
Title: Re: Is a bear free?
Post by: Rama Set on February 17, 2022, 09:36:14 PM
Explain how said denigrating in any particular instance you care to present is directed toward a purpose of eliminating personal liberty outside the confines of this forum.

Same goes for the rest of the issues you raise.

Answer- they don't.

It's you following your plan, according to your own criteria; that's pretty obvious.
Engagement of opposition within a defined enclosure =/= the parameters of the OP.  Anything obvious seems to be a matter of subjectivity on your part.

This is the problem with your “plan” in the first place. It will always require considerable subjectivity. Regardless, you frequently attack the poster rather than the content, declare people’s statements as falsehoods and try and you have definitely tried to prompt moderator action on them. You fit your own description of someone who is anti-freedom. Seeing as this is not a public forum, it seems nonsensical to assert these freedoms here, but hey ho.
Thank you for pointing out the off topic nature of your reply.

Now, back to the subject of why personal liberties are being extinguished.

A great deal of the "why," is embodied by multiple entities present in this forum.

Discussing an aspect of the freedoms being debated on this forum that may or may not result in a changing of one's worldview is perfectly in line with the OP.

Reported.
Title: Re: Is a bear free?
Post by: Dr David Thork on February 17, 2022, 09:41:29 PM
A bear is not subject to any laws. A bear is free.

Sure, the bear has rivals ... but that isn't the same thing. A King has rivals who may conquer his empire and kill him. Doesn't make the king subjugated.
Title: Re: Is a bear free?
Post by: WTF_Seriously on February 17, 2022, 09:45:06 PM
A bear is not subject to any laws. A bear is free.

A bear won't be allowed to set up life in the middle of your nearest park.  It will be either relocated or killed.
Title: Re: Is a bear free?
Post by: Dr David Thork on February 17, 2022, 09:48:31 PM
A bear is not subject to any laws. A bear is free.

A bear won't be allowed to set up life in the middle of your nearest park.  It will be either relocated or killed.
Because a bear has rivals. But it isn't avoiding the park because it respects other people's property rights and fears legal recompense. I could just as easily be forced from a park by an enormous aggressive dog that isn't on a lead. That doesn't mean the dog is my master.
Title: Re: Is a bear free?
Post by: Lord Dave on February 17, 2022, 11:27:35 PM
A bear is not subject to any laws. A bear is free.

Sure, the bear has rivals ... but that isn't the same thing. A King has rivals who may conquer his empire and kill him. Doesn't make the king subjugated.
Thank you, Thork, for answering the question instead of fighting the troll.


So freedom means subject to no laws?  Does that mean you, as a human, will not be free unless you live in a place where there is no human civilization?
Title: Re: Is a bear free?
Post by: Roundy on February 18, 2022, 12:05:49 AM
Hardly.

Let’s go through your list:

First, denigrate the presenter by any means possible

From the banlist:

Quote
Action80   Repeated personal attacks. ~junker

Check.

Second. label the communication as false

Quit typing incorrect information and falsehoods.

Check.

Finally, if all else fails, demand harsh consequences be inflicted because the communication must be false

Kind of like your creepy list you were keeping or reporting me for asking that a detailed thread be split to the appropriate forum.

Yup. Definitely sounds like you.

Give him a break; he's only doing what his hero Donald Trump does and projecting his many inadequacies on the people he interacts with.

It can happen to any delusional moron, really.
Title: Re: Is a bear free?
Post by: Dr David Thork on February 18, 2022, 07:31:08 AM
So freedom means subject to no laws?  Does that mean you, as a human, will not be free unless you live in a place where there is no human civilization?
I live in a civilisation and like everyone else, I trade a little liberty for security. The fact I can't go about killing whomever I like, is a restriction on my freedoms, but also reduces the likelihood that someone will try to kill me. A bear on the other hand, can kill other bears at it likes.
Title: Re: Is a bear free?
Post by: AllAroundTheWorld on February 18, 2022, 07:58:52 AM
I knew there would one day be a thread that Thork is right in.
What a time to be alive.
Title: Re: Is a bear free?
Post by: Action80 on February 18, 2022, 11:55:44 AM
So freedom means subject to no laws?  Does that mean you, as a human, will not be free unless you live in a place where there is no human civilization?
Freedom means subject to the laws of nature or Providence.

Freedom means you understand that living by that creed demands you allow others to do the same on an individual basis.

Acting against this creed is what gets you morans like Fidel Turdeau.
Title: Re: Is a bear free?
Post by: Lord Dave on February 18, 2022, 12:43:15 PM
So freedom means subject to no laws?  Does that mean you, as a human, will not be free unless you live in a place where there is no human civilization?
Freedom means subject to the laws of nature or Providence.

Freedom means you understand that living by that creed demands you allow others to do the same on an individual basis.

Acting against this creed is what gets you morans like Fidel Turdeau.

But how do you reconcile two individuals whose 'freedoms' harm the other?

Law of nature is survival of the fittest.  Might makes right.  Which means the weak are oppressed and killed for the benefit of the strong.
Title: Re: Is a bear free?
Post by: Action80 on February 18, 2022, 01:27:19 PM
So freedom means subject to no laws?  Does that mean you, as a human, will not be free unless you live in a place where there is no human civilization?
Freedom means subject to the laws of nature or Providence.

Freedom means you understand that living by that creed demands you allow others to do the same on an individual basis.

Acting against this creed is what gets you morans like Fidel Turdeau.

But how do you reconcile two individuals whose 'freedoms' harm the other?
I am under the impression what I wrote already addresses your question: "Freedom means you understand that living by that creed demands you allow others to do the same on an individual basis."
Law of nature is survival of the fittest.  Might makes right.  Which means the weak are oppressed and killed for the benefit of the strong.
Only a fascist dictator like Fidel Turdeau lives by the idea that survival of the fittest is the law of nature, although I am not surprised you hold it to be correct also, as it leads to what you ultimately want.

But even insects and animals understand that current weakness is more often worthy of protection than not and sheer might also provides safety.

Why do you insist on such a haphazard and low level effort when examining these concepts?

Laws of nature and Providence have nothing to do with BS like survival of the fittest. People who follow these laws as they apply to humanity realize everyone is running a race and demand the race be conducted under civilized rules.
Title: Re: Is a bear free?
Post by: Lord Dave on February 18, 2022, 02:00:16 PM
So freedom means subject to no laws?  Does that mean you, as a human, will not be free unless you live in a place where there is no human civilization?
Freedom means subject to the laws of nature or Providence.

Freedom means you understand that living by that creed demands you allow others to do the same on an individual basis.

Acting against this creed is what gets you morans like Fidel Turdeau.

But how do you reconcile two individuals whose 'freedoms' harm the other?
I am under the impression what I wrote already addresses your question: "Freedom means you understand that living by that creed demands you allow others to do the same on an individual basis."
And whose freedom is allowed?
Lets say I wanna sleep on a park bench at night because I'm homeless.
Lets say you want to sit on it.  Benches are made for sitting, not sleeping after all.
You are both free to use the bench but who gets it?  Should it be the sleeping hobo since he was there first?  Should it be you because you want to use it for sitting, what its meant for?




Quote
Law of nature is survival of the fittest.  Might makes right.  Which means the weak are oppressed and killed for the benefit of the strong.
Only a fascist dictator like Fidel Turdeau lives by the idea that survival of the fittest is the law of nature, although I am not surprised you hold it to be correct also, as it leads to what you ultimately want.
O.o that... Thst is the law of nature tho.  What law of nature were you taught?

Quote
But even insects and animals understand that current weakness is more often worthy of protection than not and sheer might also provides safety.
Huh?  Most weak animals are eaten by predators.  Sick, old, or injured rabbits are often easy prey for predators.  Ants don't go around saving a sick ant from a spider.
Some pack animals will protect their own.  And parents will protect their young.  But thats about it...


Quote
Laws of nature and Providence have nothing to do with BS like survival of the fittest. People who follow these laws as they apply to humanity realize everyone is running a race and demand the race be conducted under civilized rules.
Yeah... Civilization law is not natural law. 
You seem to think the laws of nature are.... Human civilization laws.
Title: Re: Is a bear free?
Post by: Action80 on February 18, 2022, 02:23:26 PM
So freedom means subject to no laws?  Does that mean you, as a human, will not be free unless you live in a place where there is no human civilization?
Freedom means subject to the laws of nature or Providence.

Freedom means you understand that living by that creed demands you allow others to do the same on an individual basis.

Acting against this creed is what gets you morans like Fidel Turdeau.
But how do you reconcile two individuals whose 'freedoms' harm the other?
I am under the impression what I wrote already addresses your question: "Freedom means you understand that living by that creed demands you allow others to do the same on an individual basis."
And whose freedom is allowed?
Everyone.
Lets say I wanna sleep on a park bench at night because I'm homeless.
Okay.
Lets say you want to sit on it.  Benches are made for sitting, not sleeping after all.
You are both free to use the bench but who gets it?  Should it be the sleeping hobo since he was there first?  Should it be you because you want to use it for sitting, what its meant for?
A sane, sober, and normal person recognizes when a seat is occupied and doesn't consider the fact a particular person is occupying the seat as an infringement on freedom.
Quote
Law of nature is survival of the fittest.  Might makes right.  Which means the weak are oppressed and killed for the benefit of the strong.
Only a fascist dictator like Fidel Turdeau lives by the idea that survival of the fittest is the law of nature, although I am not surprised you hold it to be correct also, as it leads to what you ultimately want.
O.o that... Thst is the law of nature tho.  What law of nature were you taught?
That isn't the law of nature.

If it was, no offspring would ever survive.
Quote
But even insects and animals understand that current weakness is more often worthy of protection than not and sheer might also provides safety.
Huh?  Most weak animals are eaten by predators.  Sick, old, or injured rabbits are often easy prey for predators.  Ants don't go around saving a sick ant from a spider.
Some pack animals will protect their own.  And parents will protect their young.  But thats about it...
So, you do get it.

Just really don't want to admit it for whatever reason.
Quote
Laws of nature and Providence have nothing to do with BS like survival of the fittest. People who follow these laws as they apply to humanity realize everyone is running a race and demand the race be conducted under civilized rules.
Yeah... Civilization law is not natural law. 
You seem to think the laws of nature are.... Human civilization laws.
No, I seem to think that nature is more than just an examination of what is mundane.

You do too, and it seems you're just on the troll.

Bu bye.
Title: Re: Is a bear free?
Post by: Lord Dave on February 18, 2022, 03:00:25 PM
Lets say you want to sit on it.  Benches are made for sitting, not sleeping after all.
You are both free to use the bench but who gets it?  Should it be the sleeping hobo since he was there first?  Should it be you because you want to use it for sitting, what its meant for?
A sane, sober, and normal person recognizes when a seat is occupied and doesn't consider the fact a particular person is occupying the seat as an infringement on freedom.
It was a rather simple example but it does limit your freedom to sit where you want.
So in your view, being able to sit where you want isn't freedom?  Because the civil rights movement would disagree.


Quote
Law of nature is survival of the fittest.  Might makes right.  Which means the weak are oppressed and killed for the benefit of the strong.
Only a fascist dictator like Fidel Turdeau lives by the idea that survival of the fittest is the law of nature, although I am not surprised you hold it to be correct also, as it leads to what you ultimately want.
O.o that... Thst is the law of nature tho.  What law of nature were you taught?
That isn't the law of nature.

If it was, no offspring would ever survive.
[/Quote]
Many do not.  For example, male lions are known to kill their sons if said son challenges them for ownership of the pride.
Most insects drop their eggs and fly off or die.  It is by sheer numbers that some survive.
Sharks eat eachother in the womb (well, the birth canal technically) until only two remain.
Sea turtles lay eggs on the beach then leave.
Bass lay eggs up stream then leave them.

Quote
Quote
But even insects and animals understand that current weakness is more often worthy of protection than not and sheer might also provides safety.
Huh?  Most weak animals are eaten by predators.  Sick, old, or injured rabbits are often easy prey for predators.  Ants don't go around saving a sick ant from a spider.
Some pack animals will protect their own.  And parents will protect their young.  But thats about it...
So, you do get it.

Just really don't want to admit it for whatever reason.

What, protect your own?  Because thats not the law of nature.  Its the law of society.

Quote
Quote
Laws of nature and Providence have nothing to do with BS like survival of the fittest. People who follow these laws as they apply to humanity realize everyone is running a race and demand the race be conducted under civilized rules.
Yeah... Civilization law is not natural law. 
You seem to think the laws of nature are.... Human civilization laws.
No, I seem to think that nature is more than just an examination of what is mundane.

You do too, and it seems you're just on the troll.

Bu bye.
Oh, you're leaving the thread? 
Oh good.  Bye.
Title: Re: Is a bear free?
Post by: Rama Set on February 18, 2022, 03:07:25 PM
The bench example is not someone’s right being limited but rather their ability at a particular moment in time. It’s the same thing with the convoy protests happening in Canada: many people are confusing the right to assemble with the right to assemble whenever, wherever and however they want.
Title: Re: Is a bear free?
Post by: Iceman on February 18, 2022, 03:16:08 PM
https://www.blogto.com/city/2022/02/man-pot-trucker-convoy-leave-ottawa/

 [comically small] Pot and ladle guy gets it.
Title: Re: Is a bear free?
Post by: Action80 on February 18, 2022, 03:51:53 PM
The bench example is not someone’s right being limited but rather their ability at a particular moment in time. It’s the same thing with the convoy protests happening in Canada: many people are confusing the right to assemble with the right to assemble whenever, wherever and however they want.
Is it your opinion people should have the right to assemble whenever they want, wherever they want, and however they want?

Or only certain people should have that right?
Title: Re: Is a bear free?
Post by: Rama Set on February 18, 2022, 04:52:15 PM
The bench example is not someone’s right being limited but rather their ability at a particular moment in time. It’s the same thing with the convoy protests happening in Canada: many people are confusing the right to assemble with the right to assemble whenever, wherever and however they want.
Is it your opinion people should have the right to assemble whenever they want, wherever they want, and however they want?

Or only certain people should have that right?

I don’t think anyone has or should have the unlimited right to assemble at a time, place and manner of their choosing. It should always be weighed against the public peace, as the judge did who issued the injunction against horn honking.
Title: Re: Is a bear free?
Post by: Action80 on February 18, 2022, 05:08:57 PM
The bench example is not someone’s right being limited but rather their ability at a particular moment in time. It’s the same thing with the convoy protests happening in Canada: many people are confusing the right to assemble with the right to assemble whenever, wherever and however they want.
Is it your opinion people should have the right to assemble whenever they want, wherever they want, and however they want?

Or only certain people should have that right?

I don’t think anyone has or should have the unlimited right to assemble at a time, place and manner of their choosing. It should always be weighed against the public peace, as the judge did who issued the injunction against horn honking.
Sure.

I am sure the people who were pissed at the horn honking was the straw that caused Fidel Turdeau to flip out and label the Jewish MP a supporter of Swastikas.

LMMFAO!

So, are you in support of forced assembly?
Title: Re: Is a bear free?
Post by: Lord Dave on February 18, 2022, 05:12:19 PM
Remember when liberals blocked a major highway in texas to protest something and everyone said they should be run over for blocking a road?

Good times.
Title: Re: Is a bear free?
Post by: Rama Set on February 18, 2022, 05:38:58 PM
The bench example is not someone’s right being limited but rather their ability at a particular moment in time. It’s the same thing with the convoy protests happening in Canada: many people are confusing the right to assemble with the right to assemble whenever, wherever and however they want.
Is it your opinion people should have the right to assemble whenever they want, wherever they want, and however they want?

Or only certain people should have that right?

I don’t think anyone has or should have the unlimited right to assemble at a time, place and manner of their choosing. It should always be weighed against the public peace, as the judge did who issued the injunction against horn honking.
Sure.

I am sure the people who were pissed at the horn honking was the straw that caused Fidel Turdeau to flip out and label the Jewish MP a supporter of Swastikas.

Governance of the protest in Ottawa has been awful at every level.

Quote
So, are you in support of forced assembly?

I’m not sure what you mean by that. An example would help.
Title: Re: Is a bear free?
Post by: Action80 on February 18, 2022, 06:04:40 PM
Remember when liberals blocked a major highway in texas to protest something and everyone said they should be run over for blocking a road?

Good times.
Yeah, everyone said something...

What were they protesting again?

Oh yeah, now I remember.

This particular group of liberals. as you put it, seemed to be protesting emergency vehicles driving to pick up sick and elderly persons.
Title: Re: Is a bear free?
Post by: Action80 on February 18, 2022, 06:30:33 PM
The bench example is not someone’s right being limited but rather their ability at a particular moment in time. It’s the same thing with the convoy protests happening in Canada: many people are confusing the right to assemble with the right to assemble whenever, wherever and however they want.
Is it your opinion people should have the right to assemble whenever they want, wherever they want, and however they want?

Or only certain people should have that right?

I don’t think anyone has or should have the unlimited right to assemble at a time, place and manner of their choosing. It should always be weighed against the public peace, as the judge did who issued the injunction against horn honking.
Sure.

I am sure the people who were pissed at the horn honking was the straw that caused Fidel Turdeau to flip out and label the Jewish MP a supporter of Swastikas.

Governance of the protest in Ottawa has been awful at every level.

Quote
So, are you in support of forced assembly?

I’m not sure what you mean by that. An example would help.
Well, let us take an example of persons assembling in the town square to make public statements critical of the national leader.

The polizei make their presence known, arrest the persons gathered, forcing them to reassemble in a different location.
Title: Re: Is a bear free?
Post by: Rama Set on February 18, 2022, 07:04:30 PM
Without a reason for the relocation it wouldn’t seem just, no.
Title: Re: Is a bear free?
Post by: Lord Dave on February 18, 2022, 11:31:24 PM
Remember when liberals blocked a major highway in texas to protest something and everyone said they should be run over for blocking a road?

Good times.
Yeah, everyone said something...

What were they protesting again?

Oh yeah, now I remember.

This particular group of liberals. as you put it, seemed to be protesting emergency vehicles driving to pick up sick and elderly persons.

Nah.  I looked it up.
Black lives matters.
So not about emergency vehicles.  It just so happens that some use the highway.
I'm sure some use the roads near the ambassador bridge too. 
Which means truckers are blocking ambulances as well.
Title: Re: Is a bear free?
Post by: Action80 on February 21, 2022, 03:29:08 PM
Which means truckers are blocking ambulances as well.
No evidence of anything of the sort.

Title: Re: Is a bear free?
Post by: Lord Dave on February 21, 2022, 06:09:47 PM
Which means truckers are blocking ambulances as well.
No evidence of anything of the sort.

Of course not.  There's no hospital there.
I'm more thinking an ambulance that needs to service someone nearby.

But perhaps not.
Perhaps all they're blocking is international trade and travel.