Poll

What Religion are you?

Jewish
1 (1.8%)
Muslim
1 (1.8%)
Hindu
0 (0%)
Buddhist
0 (0%)
Other
2 (3.5%)
Theist
2 (3.5%)
Folk Religions
2 (3.5%)
Deist
7 (12.3%)
Christian
11 (19.3%)
None (Atheism)
31 (54.4%)

Total Members Voted: 48

*

Offline Rama Set

  • *
  • Posts: 9748
  • Round and round...
    • View Profile
Re: What Religion are you?
« Reply #180 on: December 08, 2013, 11:02:50 PM »
I would never disagree that there is strong or good chance the universe would unfold in the way it did. I would also never claim a statistic falsely to prop up my argument.
Th*rk is the worst person on this website.

*

Offline Rama Set

  • *
  • Posts: 9748
  • Round and round...
    • View Profile
Re: What Religion are you?
« Reply #181 on: December 08, 2013, 11:03:23 PM »
Accidents are unanticipated. If you have a set of laws that can predict the set of possible outcomes and each one in the set I s arrived at by a causal set of events then it would be an anticipated possibility.

So who anticipated it?

What did: the laws of physics.
Th*rk is the worst person on this website.

Re: What Religion are you?
« Reply #182 on: December 08, 2013, 11:05:42 PM »
Accidents are unanticipated. If you have a set of laws that can predict the set of possible outcomes and each one in the set I s arrived at by a causal set of events then it would be an anticipated possibility.

Why do laws have to predict the set of possible outcomes?

The theory of quantum mechanics relies on the fact that you can't predict it's outcome but it's bounded by a set of laws.

*

Offline Roundy

  • Abdicator of the Zetetic Council
  • *
  • Posts: 3324
    • View Profile
Re: What Religion are you?
« Reply #183 on: December 08, 2013, 11:09:29 PM »
Accidents are unanticipated. If you have a set of laws that can predict the set of possible outcomes and each one in the set I s arrived at by a causal set of events then it would be an anticipated possibility.

So who anticipated it?

What did: the laws of physics.

How did an insentient concept anticipate something?
Dr. Frank is a physicist. He says it's impossible. So it's impossible.
My friends, please remember Tom said this the next time you fall into the trap of engaging him, and thank you. :)

Offline spank86

  • *
  • Posts: 252
    • View Profile
Re: What Religion are you?
« Reply #184 on: December 08, 2013, 11:10:48 PM »
The vast majority of people have always believed in a deity or deities.
and presumably you believe that the vast majority of those people are wrong at least in their choice of deities?

I don't need sources to continue to do what humans have always done. It is the atheist who is proposing that I reject belief in the guiding philosophy of my people for the last 5,000+ yrs.
yes, go out, eat shellfish, have fun.

I suggest that the onus of proof is on the atheist. As far as making up statistics, I don't think I'm stretching or being desperate when I say that all the universe happening by accident is unlikely. Ever play 52 Pickup?
If there's enough planets in the universe then the chances of one spawning life could actually be very high no matter what the chances of life occurring. You just need enough planets and enough time.


Re: What Religion are you?
« Reply #185 on: December 08, 2013, 11:42:46 PM »
Theoretically possible. Statistically highly unlikely. For every single atom to be just right even on Earth to allow for intelligent life is a 1 in several million chance. That it happened elsewhere also? Much harder to conceive. But, I weary of the battle since neither of us is likely to win the other over to our point of view. What say we change the topic?

Even assuming this random figure, life would have to happen somewhere and who is to say Earth isn't it?

Also, abiogenesis doesn't require "every single atom to be just right".

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: What Religion are you?
« Reply #186 on: December 09, 2013, 12:00:16 AM »
I didn't make up a statistic. I merely said the odds are about as likely as winning the Iowa lottery (please play responsibly). :)  If I'd wanted to make that up, I'd have used real numbers. As re: the majority of the world being wrong about its choice of deity, neither I nor any other Jew ever said that. I know what God has revealed to us, & how I must live to please him. What he may or may not have revealed to Gentiles is beyond my capacity to know. I can't evaluate non-Jewish revelation, except to see how it makes sense w/ what we have.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2013, 12:03:31 AM by Yaakov ben Avraham »

*

Offline Rushy

  • Planar Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 8131
    • View Profile
Re: What Religion are you?
« Reply #187 on: December 09, 2013, 12:20:23 AM »
I didn't make up a statistic. I merely said the odds are about as likely as winning the Iowa lottery (please play responsibly).

Yes, that is called making up a statistic. I was under the impression most Jews are college educated.

*

Offline Rama Set

  • *
  • Posts: 9748
  • Round and round...
    • View Profile
Re: What Religion are you?
« Reply #188 on: December 09, 2013, 12:58:34 AM »
Accidents are unanticipated. If you have a set of laws that can predict the set of possible outcomes and each one in the set I s arrived at by a causal set of events then it would be an anticipated possibility.

Why do laws have to predict the set of possible outcomes?

The theory of quantum mechanics relies on the fact that you can't predict it's outcome but it's bounded by a set of laws.

Quantum mechanics does not predict a single outcome, but it definitely predicts the set of possible outcomes.
Th*rk is the worst person on this website.

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: What Religion are you?
« Reply #189 on: December 09, 2013, 01:49:37 AM »
Like I said, I was making a general statement. Making up a statistic would be saying something like '1 in 6,596,312 chance'. But if you prefer, drop numbers. I believe the odds are small that an ordered universe could come from nothing. Like I said, ever play 52 Pickup? You believe otherwise. Since theism is the default position of most people in the world, the onus is on the atheist to prove us wrong. Ultimately, the question can't be resolved w/ certainty, obviously. And yes, to answer your implied question, I have 2 degrees & a graduate degree, thank you.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2013, 01:51:45 AM by Yaakov ben Avraham »

*

Offline Rushy

  • Planar Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 8131
    • View Profile
Re: What Religion are you?
« Reply #190 on: December 09, 2013, 01:52:40 AM »
Like I said, I was making a general statement. Making up a statistic would be saying something like '1 in 6,596,312 chance'. But if you prefer, drop numbers. I believe the odds are small that an ordered universe could come from nothing. Like I said, ever play 52 Pickup? You believe otherwise. Since theism is the default position of most people in the world, the onus is on the atheist to prove us wrong. Ultimately, the question can't be resolved w/ certainty, obviously. And yes, to answe your implied question, I have 2 degrees & a graduate degree, thank you.

Ah, in that case I have two graduate degrees and a doctorate. I mean, if you're going to make shit up, might as well do it full steam ahead, eh? Look, your posting history paints the picture for me. Your incessant trolling isn't even amusing anymore.

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: What Religion are you?
« Reply #191 on: December 09, 2013, 01:57:44 AM »
Well, if I were a complete fool, I would give you the name of the institution, my Gentile name, & date of graduations. But I'm not such a fool. Believe me or not as you choose. I don't need to prove anything to you. As for trolling, that's a very subjective thing to say.

*

Offline Rushy

  • Planar Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 8131
    • View Profile
Re: What Religion are you?
« Reply #192 on: December 09, 2013, 02:01:19 AM »
Your post history is sort of like a computer driver related discussion I had with PizzaPlanet and Parsifal. I mean, I had no idea what I was talking about, and they knew that, but did I know that? Looking back on it I know that, but I didn't know that at the time. One day you'll look back on this discussion and think to yourself "well, I didn't know it at the time, but I was dumb, and everyone knew it but me."

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: What Religion are you?
« Reply #193 on: December 09, 2013, 02:02:58 AM »
Well, alrighty then! That's pretty poor sport, even from you. If you don't wish to continue a discussion, you may say so. Insults are unnecessary. The argument is unwinnable for either of us, since winning would entail one's interlocutor accepting certain premises that he won't by definition.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2013, 02:07:56 AM by Yaakov ben Avraham »

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: What Religion are you?
« Reply #194 on: December 09, 2013, 02:19:25 AM »
As far as the accusations of racism, your point is? I have said nothing untrue. Fine, call them Arabs. The fact is they want Israel destroyed, & have tried doing it 5 times. So no, I don't trust them, & it is my right to choose who I associate w/. & frankly, if I want to call them names, that's also my choice. Let them stop blowing shit up, & then maybe I'll treat them w/ respect.

*

Offline Roundy

  • Abdicator of the Zetetic Council
  • *
  • Posts: 3324
    • View Profile
Re: What Religion are you?
« Reply #195 on: December 09, 2013, 02:35:59 AM »
The act is starting to unravel, Yaakov.  It was fun while it lasted.  :(
Dr. Frank is a physicist. He says it's impossible. So it's impossible.
My friends, please remember Tom said this the next time you fall into the trap of engaging him, and thank you. :)

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: What Religion are you?
« Reply #196 on: December 09, 2013, 02:37:49 AM »
Ah, ok.

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: What Religion are you?
« Reply #197 on: December 09, 2013, 02:39:32 AM »
& now my damn feet hurt! I'm going to need the ice packs.

Yaakov ben Avraham

Re: What Religion are you?
« Reply #198 on: December 09, 2013, 02:47:37 AM »
Sorry, I know that sounded a bit random. But I have poor circulation in my lower extremities, which causes considerable pain.

*

Offline Rama Set

  • *
  • Posts: 9748
  • Round and round...
    • View Profile
Re: What Religion are you?
« Reply #199 on: December 09, 2013, 02:49:33 AM »
Like I said, I was making a general statement. Making up a statistic would be saying something like '1 in 6,596,312 chance'. But if you prefer, drop numbers. I believe the odds are small that an ordered universe could come from nothing. Like I said, ever play 52 Pickup? You believe otherwise. Since theism is the default position of most people in the world, the onus is on the atheist to prove us wrong. Ultimately, the question can't be resolved w/ certainty, obviously. And yes, to answer your implied question, I have 2 degrees & a graduate degree, thank you.

Well for someone with so many degrees you seem to have a terrible understanding of how proof works. Let me help you: it is impossible to conclusively prove something does not exist. That being said, I have never experienced a conclusively supernatural event in my life, humans are clinically proven to create false positives in their cognition, humans are prone to wishful thinking and neuroses as well. Based on these facts, it seems plausible that humans imagine supernatural beings and events, and this seems much more plausible than there being a short period of time when a god intervened and no longer does.
Th*rk is the worst person on this website.