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Offline Roundy

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Re: Star Wars ep 7 (with spoilers)
« Reply #100 on: January 04, 2016, 06:53:36 PM »
>assumes I disliked it

When did I do that?  All I really said was that you would have looked for things to nitpick about it, and I have like eight years of history backing me up on that.

ur retartet but u donut even no it and i walnut tell u y

Also, your odd defense of the repeated elements in this film by pointing to the original trilogy's influences is ridiculous.  Pretty much every story in this day and age is going to be influenced by something, but most people - especially younger audiences - would have very little familiarity with spaghetti westerns and those goofy capeshit serials.  There's no comparison between a movie being derivative of sources like them and a movie being derivative of one of the most successful movies of all time, which it also happens to be a direct sequel to.

It is not uncommon for the same themes and motifs to continue popping up in the same series of stories.  Some would even say it's expected.  For a saga like this, that some elements from the original story would be repeated was absolutely inevitable. 

Like Rama Set said it's how they use those themes and motifs that matters, and I think the new movie was successful enough in its creation of engaging new characters (characters that really bear little resemblance beyond some very superficial comparisons to those in the original) that it worked.

My main criticism of the movie is that its story depends maybe a bit too much on coincidence on top of coincidence, but that's also been something of a mainstay of the movies in the past, and to some extent to films/storytelling in general, and once the story got rolling it didn't even seem to matter.
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Offline Ghost Spaghetti

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Re: Star Wars ep 7 (with spoilers)
« Reply #101 on: January 04, 2016, 07:36:46 PM »
I'm not reading through this entire thread to see what others have had to say.  I saw it yesterday and I enjoyed it.  If FES is the reflection of the rest of the internet that it has tended to be in the past then I am sure some people are complaining that it's too much like the original movie, or that there's too much pandering to the fanbase.

Both arguments are stupid.

I enjoyed it.  I thought the new characters were engaging and I liked the actors playing them.  It was a good story.  Even if it did borrow a little heavily from the original movie, the original movie borrowed heavily from myth, spaghetti westerns, and pulp serials itself, so who cares?  I appreciated that the look of the originals was recaptured by shooting on 35mm film and that those ridiculous digital effects that cluttered the prequels were minimized.  They were never going to please everybody, and certain people (Saddam, for example, or Thork I'm sure) were probably looking for things to nitpick the whole time they were watching the movie.  That's fine; everybody thinks they're a critic.  I left the theater satisfied and looking forward to seeing where they're going with the story and that's what matters to me.

I'm not going to read this whole post to see what you had to say, in fact, I'm going to assume that like some parts of the internet, you thought that it was the best film or the saga but you wished that they had white, male actors playing the lead roles.

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Offline Roundy

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Re: Star Wars ep 7 (with spoilers)
« Reply #102 on: January 04, 2016, 07:47:28 PM »
I'm not reading through this entire thread to see what others have had to say.  I saw it yesterday and I enjoyed it.  If FES is the reflection of the rest of the internet that it has tended to be in the past then I am sure some people are complaining that it's too much like the original movie, or that there's too much pandering to the fanbase.

Both arguments are stupid.

I enjoyed it.  I thought the new characters were engaging and I liked the actors playing them.  It was a good story.  Even if it did borrow a little heavily from the original movie, the original movie borrowed heavily from myth, spaghetti westerns, and pulp serials itself, so who cares?  I appreciated that the look of the originals was recaptured by shooting on 35mm film and that those ridiculous digital effects that cluttered the prequels were minimized.  They were never going to please everybody, and certain people (Saddam, for example, or Thork I'm sure) were probably looking for things to nitpick the whole time they were watching the movie.  That's fine; everybody thinks they're a critic.  I left the theater satisfied and looking forward to seeing where they're going with the story and that's what matters to me.

I'm not going to read this whole post to see what you had to say, in fact, I'm going to assume that like some parts of the internet, you thought that it was the best film or the saga but you wished that they had white, male actors playing the lead roles.

Did my lack of willingness to read a seven-page thread through bother you?  My apologies.  In fact I did cheat a little bit.  I read the first few posts, but I wasn't willing to spend the time it would take reading everything before giving my own opinion.

Anyway, chicks should always be love interests; it's just right.  But at least they made the black guy mostly ineffectual.
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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Star Wars ep 7 (with spoilers)
« Reply #103 on: January 04, 2016, 08:27:44 PM »
On the plus side, I think we've stumbled onto something.

Storm Troopers had terrible aim because of the helmet.  Once Finn got the bucket off, he was mowing down those troopers like he was a main cast member.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline Ghost Spaghetti

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Re: Star Wars ep 7 (with spoilers)
« Reply #104 on: January 04, 2016, 08:31:00 PM »
Quote
Did my lack of willingness to read a seven-page thread through bother you?

No, but to comment on opinions you haven't read did.

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Offline Pongo

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Re: Star Wars ep 7 (with spoilers)
« Reply #105 on: January 04, 2016, 09:10:21 PM »
Quote
Did my lack of willingness to read a seven-page thread through bother you?

No, but to comment on opinions you haven't read did.

It's okay Chris, I'm sure Roundy read my posts.

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Offline Roundy

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Re: Star Wars ep 7 (with spoilers)
« Reply #106 on: January 04, 2016, 09:16:04 PM »
Quote
Did my lack of willingness to read a seven-page thread through bother you?

No, but to comment on opinions you haven't read did.

As I pointed out, I have read those opinions.  Just not necessarily in this thread.  I didn't single anybody out but Saddam and Thork, and even them only extremely abstractly based on their past actions (they will both look for things to argue about on any topic, we both know this I'm sure, Saddam in particular when it comes to mass media and even more in particular when it comes to fanboyish mass media), and not in regards to any specific opinions about the movie.

Anyway back for about twenty-four hours and already ruffling feathers!  Whoot!
Dr. Frank is a physicist. He says it's impossible. So it's impossible.
My friends, please remember Tom said this the next time you fall into the trap of engaging him, and thank you. :)

Thork

Re: Star Wars ep 7 (with spoilers)
« Reply #107 on: January 05, 2016, 12:04:17 AM »
Inventor of the rage smiley!  >o<


You are not the inventor of the rage smiley! >o<

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Offline Roundy

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Re: Star Wars ep 7 (with spoilers)
« Reply #108 on: January 05, 2016, 04:35:21 AM »
Inventor of the rage smiley!  >o<


You are not the inventor of the rage smiley! >o<

Prove it!  >o<
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Offline markjo

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Re: Star Wars ep 7 (with spoilers)
« Reply #109 on: January 05, 2016, 04:50:14 AM »
You guys realise that training in the movie-verse basically means understanding the force better, right? Not actual lightsaber training. Luke never used his saber once on Dagobah.
Incorrect.  In the movie, Luke used his light saber against Darth Vader in the tree cave.  Also, in the book version, Yoda tosses a bar into the air for Luke to cut into as many pieces as he can.
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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Star Wars ep 7 (with spoilers)
« Reply #110 on: January 05, 2016, 05:51:49 AM »
You guys realise that training in the movie-verse basically means understanding the force better, right? Not actual lightsaber training. Luke never used his saber once on Dagobah.
Incorrect.  In the movie, Luke used his light saber against Darth Vader in the tree cave.  Also, in the book version, Yoda tosses a bar into the air for Luke to cut into as many pieces as he can.

Seeing as Vader was not on Dagobah, it is not unreasonable to think that the lightsaber was also a vision.  It is also aside from the matter of his training.  In the movie, he was never trained with his lightsaber on Dagobah.

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Offline beardo

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Re: Star Wars ep 7 (with spoilers)
« Reply #111 on: January 05, 2016, 06:25:58 AM »
How do you know?
The Mastery.

Re: Star Wars ep 7 (with spoilers)
« Reply #112 on: January 05, 2016, 06:55:41 AM »
It was, but there were gaping plot-holes, mostly to do with the bad guy and his motivations -- why he waited twenty-odd years to attack Vulcan, etc

Off topic, but wasn't he waiting for Spock? Not a plot hole.

You guys realise that training in the movie-verse basically means understanding the force better, right? Not actual lightsaber training. Luke never used his saber once on Dagobah.
Incorrect.  In the movie, Luke used his light saber against Darth Vader in the tree cave.  Also, in the book version, Yoda tosses a bar into the air for Luke to cut into as many pieces as he can.

The tree cave wasn't real, you numpty. Besides which, the purpose of the saber was as a plot device (to reveal luke's face). Also books are not canon.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2016, 06:57:27 AM by Vindictus »

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Offline Roundy

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Re: Star Wars ep 7 (with spoilers)
« Reply #113 on: January 05, 2016, 07:00:05 AM »
I kind of feel like it should be pointed out that unless Luke's training took half an hour we couldn't have possibly seen it in its entirety.
Dr. Frank is a physicist. He says it's impossible. So it's impossible.
My friends, please remember Tom said this the next time you fall into the trap of engaging him, and thank you. :)

Re: Star Wars ep 7 (with spoilers)
« Reply #114 on: January 05, 2016, 07:21:30 AM »
I kind of feel like it should be pointed out that unless Luke's training took half an hour we couldn't have possibly seen it in its entirety.

This whole line of arguing comes from me defending Rey and her ability to beat Ren, despite being less trained with a saber.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Star Wars ep 7 (with spoilers)
« Reply #115 on: January 05, 2016, 07:25:37 AM »
I kind of feel like it should be pointed out that unless Luke's training took half an hour we couldn't have possibly seen it in its entirety.

Luke learned how to lift rocks and had the "Talk".  What more is there to the Force?  He never even finished his training or returned to Yoda before the last time in RotJ and yet not only became a Jedi but was powerful enough to defeat Vader.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline beardo

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Re: Star Wars ep 7 (with spoilers)
« Reply #116 on: January 05, 2016, 07:57:34 AM »
I kind of feel like it should be pointed out that unless Luke's training took half an hour we couldn't have possibly seen it in its entirety.

This whole line of arguing comes from me defending Rey and her ability to beat Ren, despite being less trained with a saber.
Ren was severely injured and too angry to properly concentrate. That's why he lost.
The Mastery.

Re: Star Wars ep 7 (with spoilers)
« Reply #117 on: January 05, 2016, 08:39:42 AM »
I kind of feel like it should be pointed out that unless Luke's training took half an hour we couldn't have possibly seen it in its entirety.

This whole line of arguing comes from me defending Rey and her ability to beat Ren, despite being less trained with a saber.
Ren was severely injured and too angry to properly concentrate. That's why he lost.

Yes, that's the side of the argument I took.

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Offline Ghost Spaghetti

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Re: Star Wars ep 7 (with spoilers)
« Reply #118 on: January 05, 2016, 11:00:36 AM »
Quote
Off topic, but wasn't he waiting for Spock? Not a plot hole.


Prime!Spock lives in his ice-cave for years before Nero attacks Vulcan and Young!Spock has been serving in Starfleet for years (I was going to say Long enough to be put in charge of the Flagship, but since Starfleet gives Kirk command of it for being a stowaway, maybe Young!Spock picked up his uniform the day before yesterday)

Either way, the reason Nero really waits is so that Kirk and Co. can stop him in the Enterprise but there isn't a satisfactory reason to have him twiddling his thumbs for nigh-on 20 years unless you've read the comic tie-in.

Saddam Hussein

Re: Star Wars ep 7 (with spoilers)
« Reply #119 on: January 05, 2016, 12:43:40 PM »
I already talked about the tree cave scene!  Which was real.  Obviously Vader wasn't really there, but Luke did bring his lightsaber in there, and he did use it.  I don't really have a problem with supposing that some of Yoda's training might have involved use of a lightsaber, but it's pretty clear from both what we saw and what Yoda said that it wouldn't have been the focus.