#### TotesNotReptilian

• 802
##### Re: Length of a day in the Southern Hemisphere in December
« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2016, 07:51:10 PM »
As I already stated, the difference here we are all ignoring is the fact that 'degree' doesn't mean anything on the FE!

Sure it does. A "degree" is just a unit of measurement of angles. In this case, it means the exact same thing on the flat earth as it does on the round earth. Both models have a North. The degree that the sun rises/sets at is measured as an angle from due North. We aren't talking about latitude/longitude degrees.

Actually we are talking about lat and long degrees.  Your degree of latitude = the elevation angle of the sun on the equinox.  Even the Wiki agrees:

But we aren't talking about the equinox or the elevation angle of the sun. We are talking about the solstice, and the horizontal direction of sunset/sunrise. Sure, they are related. But you don't technically need a well defined  latitude/longitude system in order to measure the direction of sunset and sunrise. All you need is a well defined North. The flat earth model has a well defined North.

#### Rounder

• 779
• What in the Sam Hill are you people talking about?
##### Re: Length of a day in the Southern Hemisphere in December
« Reply #21 on: August 16, 2016, 11:07:27 PM »
But we aren't talking about the equinox or the elevation angle of the sun. We are talking about the solstice, and the horizontal direction of sunset/sunrise
Ah, yes, I went off topic.  You are correct.  And if I've understood their posts, nametaken agrees with you and me, to wit: the horizontal direction of sunrise/sunset observed in the real world does not match the direction predicted by the FE "solar spiral" model.
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#### nametaken

• 87
• ͡ ͡° ͜ ʖ ͡ ͡°
##### Re: Length of a day in the Southern Hemisphere in December
« Reply #22 on: August 16, 2016, 11:59:38 PM »
First of all, there is no need to apologize. I suspect Rama misread your comment.

Okay I thought so my bad.

I think you still completely missed the point of my post. Yes, the sun is physically over a different continent/ocean when it rises/sets for these cities. The outer yellow circle represents the physical path of the sun over a 24 hour period on December 21. Each spot represents the physical location of the sun when the corresponding city sees a sunrise or sunset.

Bingo. This... this is what I wasn't getting. Physical location. Very interesting. I am prone to confusion about perspective and actual location/motion on FE model, that is my bad. I'll put some clothes on then.

I haven't the time or inclination (I feel a bit like "death warmed up" at the moment), but I beg to differ on degrees being different on the flat earth map.

Hey... I see what you did there.

I have not been misrepresenting the FE position at all.

As on the Globe, on the flat earth map "parallels" of latitudes are measured north or south of the equator with the North Pole being 90° N and the limit of the "Ice Rim" being 90° S.
The meridians of longitude on the flat earth map are straight lines radiating from the North Pole, with 0° through Greenwich, exactly as on the globe.

The co-ordinates of any point on that map are the same in degrees of latitude and longitude as on the globe.  The spacing of latitude lines (close to 111 km per degree) is the same as on the globe, though the spacing of the lines of longitude continually increases from zero at the North Pole to a maximum at the "rim".

Hmm... I thought there would be different degree functioning. I suppose it makes sense if it is based on true North.

On the diagrams, you gave, the shapes of the earth are quite different, but the lat, long of any location is exactly the same numbers on each.

I really though spherical and planar geometry would function differently for some reason. Nope, degree from true North is the same from what I can tell.

One of the major problems with the FE model is the fact that on a flat surface the angle of elevation to a fixed object in the sky would not be a constant mileage per degree.  The further away from zero one travels north or south, the further you should have to travel to get another degree of elevation change to the sun.

Way above my head. My attempt at pun.

And if I've understood their posts, nametaken agrees with you and me, to wit: the horizontal direction of sunrise/sunset observed in the real world does not match the direction predicted by the FE "solar spiral" model.

I don't understand the parabolic reflection theory well enough to argue it. But I understand some of the more basic inconsistencies of the FE 'spiral' model; however, I seem to stand corrected on one point I was [wrong] about; the difference in a FE degree vs a Globe degree. That's all. I shouldn't have tried to argue a point I only thought I understood.
The Flat Earth Society has members all around the Globe
[H]ominem unius libri timeo ~Truth is stranger.

#### Rounder

• 779
• What in the Sam Hill are you people talking about?
##### Re: Length of a day in the Southern Hemisphere in December
« Reply #23 on: August 17, 2016, 04:14:38 AM »
I am prone to confusion about perspective and actual location/motion on FE model, that is my bad.

Not your fault; the model takes great liberties with how perspective actually works, which causes confusion for anybody who is used to thinking about perspective the way we are accustomed to.

One of the major problems with the FE model is the fact that on a flat surface the angle of elevation to a fixed object in the sky would not be a constant mileage per degree.  The further away from zero one travels north or south, the further you should have to travel to get another degree of elevation change to the sun.
Way above my head. My attempt at pun.
Perhaps an illustration will help.

In the picture, let's start with observer B and his view of the sun.  He is at the magic 45° mark where his distance to the sub-solar point equals the distance up to the sun from a flat earth.  I've used the FE figure of 3000 miles (or as they would say, "about" 3000 miles).  3000 miles over 45° gives 66.7 miles per degree.  This figure does not hold true at any other distance, however.  Consider Observer A, half the distance to the sub-solar point.  His viewing angle is 63.4°, which means that from his spot to the sub-solar point one covers 26.6° of latitude (90 minus 63.4).  So for him, the miles per degree is less, quite a bit less in fact, at only 56.3 miles per degree.  Looking at Observers C and D, you see the pattern: the further away you go, the larger the miles per degree figure grows.
The FE model attempts to address this problem by proposing an atmospheric optical effect that would refract the sun's light very severely in order to lower its apparent elevation in the sky to a position lower than what I have shown in my figure.  This attempt fails to address the left-to-right shift in apparent solar position that would also be required for observation to match the FE model.

I don't understand the parabolic reflection theory well enough to argue it.
Not sure what you are referring to here.

I shouldn't have tried to argue a point I only thought I understood.
Naw, you're fine.  The more you participate, the more you will understand.  I have quite enjoyed doing some of the research I have needed to bolster my belief in the RE side and refute the FE arguments.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2016, 04:19:20 AM by Rounder »
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#### İntikam

##### Re: Length of a day in the Southern Hemisphere in December
« Reply #24 on: September 08, 2016, 06:47:36 PM »
The time of sunrising and sunsetting are almost wrong. They are theorical and depends on a calculating on round earth projections. For example in Istanbul sun rising time as official time is usually earlier then the real. Sometimes we are waking up on a time almost night. Because that time announcing as sunrising time and workplaces starting to work a time that earlier then sun rising.

So the times you show are completely wrong. So your theory is wrong.

#### Rounder

• 779
• What in the Sam Hill are you people talking about?
##### Re: Length of a day in the Southern Hemisphere in December
« Reply #25 on: September 09, 2016, 06:04:47 AM »
The time of sunrising and sunsetting are almost wrong. They are theorical and depends on a calculating on round earth projections. For example in Istanbul sun rising time as official time is usually earlier then the real. Sometimes we are waking up on a time almost night. Because that time announcing as sunrising time and workplaces starting to work a time that earlier then sun rising.

So the times you show are completely wrong. So your theory is wrong.
A testable claim, that's quite helpful!  Please share with us a link to your source, the one providing these incorrect times.  I would like to compare them with the projected times provided by the timeanddate.com web site for Istanbul, and then I will observe sunrise and sunset in Istanbul via webcam to see how far off these incorrect projected times are from the actual observed events.

Here's a candidate webcam for example, although it doesn't have the greatest view.  Sunrise is dead ahead, except there's a building right in the way; sunset is exactly behind the camera.  It gives an approximation though, because you CAN see the sky change color.  The time stamps on the images are off by an hour: as I write this it is 8:40 AM in Istanbul according to timeanddate.com, but the time stamp on the most recent image is 7:36 AM.  I suspect the camera or its software didn't get the memo that Turkey is not doing the "fall back" time change, opting for a permanent "spring forward" from now on.  (Good for you, Turkey, and I wish my country would do the same!).

Anyway: sunset last night was projected to be at 7:25 pm, and the sky darkened at about 7:45 (18:45 camera time), so 20 minutes late.  Sunrise this morning was projected at 6:39 am, and the sky brightened at about 6:04 (5:04 camera time), or about 30 minutes early.  I suspect that the late darkness is twilight after the sun set, and the early brightness is the pre-dawn, and the projected sunrise/sunset times are pretty close to the actual events.  To prove it I need to find a webcam that has a direct view of sunrise, and another with a direct view of sunset.  İntikam, do you know of any?
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#### rabinoz

• 1441
• Just look South at the Stars
##### Re: Length of a day in the Southern Hemisphere in December
« Reply #26 on: September 09, 2016, 07:01:07 AM »
The time of sunrising and sunsetting are almost wrong. They are theorical and depends on a calculating on round earth projections. For example in Istanbul sun rising time as official time is usually earlier then the real. Sometimes we are waking up on a time almost night. Because that time announcing as sunrising time and workplaces starting to work a time that earlier then sun rising.

So the times you show are completely wrong. So your theory is wrong.

So the times "of sunrising and sunsetting are almost wrong". What do you mean by "almost wrong?

Yoy claim "For example in Istanbul sun rising time as official time is usually earlier then the real."

Please show us some official sunrise times and times you claim that the sun actually rose.

Where I live the observed sunrise times are a few minutes later than the "official times".

The reason for that is that the "official times" are based on sunrise over a sea-level horizon, but the land East of us is a little above our property, so our sunrise is a few minutes later.

#### Tom Bishop

• Zetetic Council Member
• 8630
• Flat Earth Believer
##### Re: Length of a day in the Southern Hemisphere in December
« Reply #27 on: September 17, 2016, 01:27:54 PM »
I am prone to confusion about perspective and actual location/motion on FE model, that is my bad.

Not your fault; the model takes great liberties with how perspective actually works, which causes confusion for anybody who is used to thinking about perspective the way we are accustomed to.

One of the major problems with the FE model is the fact that on a flat surface the angle of elevation to a fixed object in the sky would not be a constant mileage per degree.  The further away from zero one travels north or south, the further you should have to travel to get another degree of elevation change to the sun.
Way above my head. My attempt at pun.
Perhaps an illustration will help.

In the picture, let's start with observer B and his view of the sun.  He is at the magic 45° mark where his distance to the sub-solar point equals the distance up to the sun from a flat earth.  I've used the FE figure of 3000 miles (or as they would say, "about" 3000 miles).  3000 miles over 45° gives 66.7 miles per degree.  This figure does not hold true at any other distance, however.  Consider Observer A, half the distance to the sub-solar point.  His viewing angle is 63.4°, which means that from his spot to the sub-solar point one covers 26.6° of latitude (90 minus 63.4).  So for him, the miles per degree is less, quite a bit less in fact, at only 56.3 miles per degree.  Looking at Observers C and D, you see the pattern: the further away you go, the larger the miles per degree figure grows.
The FE model attempts to address this problem by proposing an atmospheric optical effect that would refract the sun's light very severely in order to lower its apparent elevation in the sky to a position lower than what I have shown in my figure.  This attempt fails to address the left-to-right shift in apparent solar position that would also be required for observation to match the FE model.

I don't understand the parabolic reflection theory well enough to argue it.
Not sure what you are referring to here.

I shouldn't have tried to argue a point I only thought I understood.
Naw, you're fine.  The more you participate, the more you will understand.  I have quite enjoyed doing some of the research I have needed to bolster my belief in the RE side and refute the FE arguments.

That math is inaccurate.

« Last Edit: September 17, 2016, 01:29:50 PM by Tom Bishop »

#### Rounder

• 779
• What in the Sam Hill are you people talking about?
##### Re: Length of a day in the Southern Hemisphere in December
« Reply #28 on: September 17, 2016, 06:08:59 PM »
That math is inaccurate.
No, it's not.  What is "inaccurate" is the scale estimates in your favorite visual phenomenon, perspective lines.  The demonstration in the video using horizontal slats on a wall, which appear to all come together at a vanishing point?  The distance in the axis he calls Z (typical convention is X and Y are horizontal axes and Z is the vertical, but whatever) compared to the distance from the bottom horizontal slat to the top one is a MUCH greater ratio than the corresponding distance to the sun circling above a flat earth.  Even at the best case for your scenario, midnight of the December Sostice on Hornos Island off South America at 55.9° south with the sun all the way around the disc at 23.3° south, the horizontal distance to the sun (calculated using the wiki-approved 69.5 miles per dgree figure) is still only 18,000 miles, or just over six times as far away horizontally as it is high.  That's nowhere near enough distance for the claimed perspective effects to be enough, and the numbers are even worse for you at sunrise and sunset.

And that's completely aside from the fact that the slats in his photo get obviously much "smaller" as they approach the vanishing point, which the sun does NOT do.

(Edited to correct my math)
« Last Edit: September 17, 2016, 06:14:57 PM by Rounder »
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#### Tom Bishop

• Zetetic Council Member
• 8630
• Flat Earth Believer
##### Re: Length of a day in the Southern Hemisphere in December
« Reply #29 on: September 17, 2016, 08:43:01 PM »
No, it's not.  What is "inaccurate" is the scale estimates in your favorite visual phenomenon, perspective lines.  The demonstration in the video using horizontal slats on a wall, which appear to all come together at a vanishing point?  The distance in the axis he calls Z (typical convention is X and Y are horizontal axes and Z is the vertical, but whatever) compared to the distance from the bottom horizontal slat to the top one is a MUCH greater ratio than the corresponding distance to the sun circling above a flat earth.  Even at the best case for your scenario, midnight of the December Sostice on Hornos Island off South America at 55.9° south with the sun all the way around the disc at 23.3° south, the horizontal distance to the sun (calculated using the wiki-approved 69.5 miles per dgree figure) is still only 18,000 miles, or just over six times as far away horizontally as it is high.  That's nowhere near enough distance for the claimed perspective effects to be enough, and the numbers are even worse for you at sunrise and sunset.

Your math is not reality, and merely an artificial side view representation of the scene. In reality all parallel lines are seen to touch at the vanishing point.

If we extend your side view scene into forever the sun will never touch the ground. There is no perspective point where things touch. This is a proof that the method used is fallacious.

Quote
And that's completely aside from the fact that the slats in his photo get obviously much "smaller" as they approach the vanishing point, which the sun does NOT do.

(Edited to correct my math)

« Last Edit: September 17, 2016, 09:22:06 PM by Tom Bishop »

#### Rounder

• 779
• What in the Sam Hill are you people talking about?
##### Re: Length of a day in the Southern Hemisphere in December
« Reply #30 on: September 18, 2016, 05:14:17 AM »
xx[/quote]

If we extend your side view scene into forever the sun will never touch the ground. There is no perspective point where things touch.
Yes, that's been our point all along.
This is a proof that the method used is fallacious.
No, it's proof that your view of perspective is wrong.  All the favorite examples of "parallel lines are seen to touch at the vanishing point" are many multiples of the distance between those parallel lines.  Railroad tracks "touch" miles away, or tens of thousands of times the width of the track.  Containers on a container ship "touch" far beyond the ship's bow, perhaps even beyond the horizon, which will also be hundreds or maybe thousands of container widths away.  That's how perspective works, it takes not merely great distance but great proportional distance.

Quote
And that's completely aside from the fact that the slats in his photo get obviously much "smaller" as they approach the vanishing point, which the sun does NOT do.

Well, it's talked about there, but I wouldn't say the round earth position has been adequatly addressed there.  But never mind that, if we're going to get into that again it belongs in its own thread; I should not have brought it up here.
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#### TotesNotReptilian

• 802
##### Re: Length of a day in the Southern Hemisphere in December
« Reply #31 on: September 18, 2016, 05:14:42 PM »
Ugh, not this stupid video again. Alrighty, time to do a post on how to measure angles 101. (Edit: relevant post)

Why on earth are you still touting that explanation? Did you forget about all the threads that completely debunked it? Do we really need to go through all that again?
« Last Edit: September 20, 2016, 12:57:30 AM by TotesNotReptilian »

#### Southernhemispere

• 48
##### Re: Length of a day in the Southern Hemisphere in December
« Reply #32 on: September 18, 2016, 08:15:41 PM »
Tom. BIshop, try using the following with your perspective lines. Go to a nice flat desert, and draw parallel lines 3000 miles apart. Now stand on one of those lines and watch the lines converge due to perspective at the horizon. Problem? Oops, the other line is not visible. If you were able to see both lines and 9000 miles to the horizon on your flat earth, the angle from where you were standing to where the other line touched the horizon would still be about 20 degrees! To add to this, put a ball with a 30 mile diameter at the start and every 1000 miles on the one line, and see how it shrinks.
Alteratively, scale things down in proportion with the actual distance you can see to the horizon and you will get the same result. I dare you!

« Last Edit: September 18, 2016, 08:17:15 PM by Southernhemispere »

#### Southernhemispere

• 48
##### Re: Length of a day in the Southern Hemisphere in December
« Reply #33 on: September 21, 2016, 05:21:43 PM »
The time of sunrising and sunsetting are almost wrong. They are theorical and depends on a calculating on round earth projections. For example in Istanbul sun rising time as official time is usually earlier then the real. Sometimes we are waking up on a time almost night. Because that time announcing as sunrising time and workplaces starting to work a time that earlier then sun rising.

So the times you show are completely wrong. So your theory is wrong.

I find many of your responses utter rubbish on these forums. You just say things like "So the times you show are completely wrong.", just like a true flat earther, when you have failed to provide any substantial proof. Have you ever been to the Southern hemisphere? I live there and I can assure you that the sunrise and sunset times are correct. Have you ever watched sport or any other live event in the Southern hemisphere live on TV? For example, day/night cricket matches from Australia or South Africa? You could then confirm when the sun sets. Now you will probably say it is not live, but recorded earlier and the TV station are in on it too! But you can also follow the live scores live on cricinfo on the internet, so the whole internet is in on it also! In fact, everyone in the Southern hemisphere must be in on the conspiracy of day lengths, direct air flights, Antarctica bases, yacht races, etc! Yeah, the earth is flat and outer half of the world can't really exist because it does not make sense with any FE model of daylight hours that can explain it! We need to ship you and Tom BIshop to a base in Antarctica for a year to actually prove 24 hour daylight in December (and Eric Dubay to the ISS indefinitely).

#### rabinoz

• 1441
• Just look South at the Stars
##### Re: Length of a day in the Southern Hemisphere in December
« Reply #34 on: September 21, 2016, 10:08:48 PM »
The time of sunrising and sunsetting are almost wrong. They are theorical and depends on a calculating on round earth projections. For example in Istanbul sun rising time as official time is usually earlier then the real. Sometimes we are waking up on a time almost night. Because that time announcing as sunrising time and workplaces starting to work a time that earlier then sun rising.

So the times you show are completely wrong. So your theory is wrong.

I find many of your responses utter rubbish on these forums. You just say things like "So the times you show are completely wrong.", just like a true flat earther, when you have failed to provide any substantial proof. Have you ever been to the Southern hemisphere? I live there and I can assure you that the sunrise and sunset times are correct. Have you ever watched sport or any other live event in the Southern hemisphere live on TV? For example, day/night cricket matches from Australia or South Africa? You could then confirm when the sun sets. Now you will probably say it is not live, but recorded earlier and the TV station are in on it too! But you can also follow the live scores live on cricinfo on the internet, so the whole internet is in on it also! In fact, everyone in the Southern hemisphere must be in on the conspiracy of day lengths, direct air flights, Antarctica bases, yacht races, etc! Yeah, the earth is flat and outer half of the world can't really exist because it does not make sense with any FE model of daylight hours that can explain it! We need to ship you and Tom BIshop to a base in Antarctica for a year to actually prove 24 hour daylight in December (and Eric Dubay to the ISS indefinitely).
From another Southern Hemispherite: I would like to know how the mid-summer sun manages to rise well South of East, at 117° here.

On any Flat Earth "map[1]" it seems as though it should rise well North of even North East.

Maybe Rowbotham or Tom Bishop forgot to tell the sun! Those two seem to precedence over facts down here at least.

The Southern Hemisphere seems to be forgotten about or worse blatantly lied about continually.

[1]  Wot map?

#### nametaken

• 87
• ͡ ͡° ͜ ʖ ͡ ͡°
##### Re: Length of a day in the Southern Hemisphere in December
« Reply #35 on: September 23, 2016, 01:53:24 AM »

Ofc shortly after my last post here, I realized that it makes sense for the sun (and moon) to rise 'further away' in Southern Hemisphere; the further away the more 'truly' you can see the orbit on a Flat Earth. Consider Antarctica; timelapses show the sun (and moon) moving horizontally; what you would expect to see in extreme Southern Hemisphere on a Flat Earth with a 'close sun'; you are seeing the actual orbit from an extreme angle, where the angle becomes apparent in the motion of the sun (and moon). Only in this manner does it make sense that you would see the 'sunrise' (and set) when the sun is 'farther away' in it's local 'geographical' center.

I'm having trouble finding all the examples I saw a few weeks ago online demonstrating the 'horizontal' orbit in AA, but here is one example:

I can't find the one that had a clear depiction of the sun and moon multiple times. There are famously a lot of hoax time lapses of Antarctica, and that further complicates research on the topic. I found several obvious hoaxes just searching 'Antarctica time lapse'; some having obvious splices (watch the shadows), others having the stars move in the exact pattern and speed as the 'moon', etc. Lots of hoaxes, all obvious.

Any thoughts? I just remember in this thread someone said it was absurd that the sun is on the 'other side' of the world when it rises in Southern Hemisphere, and I had the time to mull it over and chew on it, and it makes sense now to me on a Flat Plane, if the sun is close it would be noticeable and observable in Southern Hemisphere. Tangentially, it would make sense that it is so much colder in AA; which it is. The global record low temperatures are all in the antarctic.

Anyway the shape of FE debates are always ad hoc, so improvised responses can be hard, I guess. Sorry for being so late with this, I had to put a lot of thought into it.
The Flat Earth Society has members all around the Globe
[H]ominem unius libri timeo ~Truth is stranger.

#### rabinoz

• 1441
• Just look South at the Stars
##### Re: Length of a day in the Southern Hemisphere in December
« Reply #36 on: September 23, 2016, 08:15:51 AM »
. . . . . . . . .
Any thoughts? I just remember in this thread someone said it was absurd that the sun is on the 'other side' of the world when it rises in Southern Hemisphere, and I had the time to mull it over and chew on it, and it makes sense now to me on a Flat Plane, if the sun is close it would be noticeable and observable in Southern Hemisphere. Tangentially, it would make sense that it is so much colder in AA; which it is. The global record low temperatures are all in the antarctic.

Anyway the shape of FE debates are always ad hoc, so improvised responses can be hard, I guess. Sorry for being so late with this, I had to put a lot of thought into it.

Remember that in mid-summer (21 Dec) McMurdo Station, Antarctica - (@ Lat, long of 77.8419° S, 166.6863° E) has daylight at around 1:50 AM on 21/Dec, with the sun due South,
Invercargill, New Zealand (@ Lat, long of 46.4132° S, 168.3538° E) is in complete darkness at the same time (sunset @ 9:39 PM, sunruse 5:50 AM).

Fits perfectly with the Globe, but please explain how this fits with your "musings".

#### Southernhemispere

• 48
##### Re: Length of a day in the Southern Hemisphere in December
« Reply #37 on: September 26, 2016, 07:28:05 PM »
. . . . . . . . .
Any thoughts? I just remember in this thread someone said it was absurd that the sun is on the 'other side' of the world when it rises in Southern Hemisphere, and I had the time to mull it over and chew on it, and it makes sense now to me on a Flat Plane, if the sun is close it would be noticeable and observable in Southern Hemisphere. Tangentially, it would make sense that it is so much colder in AA; which it is. The global record low temperatures are all in the antarctic.

Anyway the shape of FE debates are always ad hoc, so improvised responses can be hard, I guess. Sorry for being so late with this, I had to put a lot of thought into it.

Remember that in mid-summer (21 Dec) McMurdo Station, Antarctica - (@ Lat, long of 77.8419° S, 166.6863° E) has daylight at around 1:50 AM on 21/Dec, with the sun due South,
Invercargill, New Zealand (@ Lat, long of 46.4132° S, 168.3538° E) is in complete darkness at the same time (sunset @ 9:39 PM, sunruse 5:50 AM).

Fits perfectly with the Globe, but please explain how this fits with your "musings".

You won't get a reasonable answer to this from FE,'ers. They will just say data is false or prove it.

#### rabinoz

• 1441
• Just look South at the Stars
##### Re: Length of a day in the Southern Hemisphere in December
« Reply #38 on: September 27, 2016, 08:54:39 PM »
. . . . . . . . .
Any thoughts? I just remember in this thread someone said it was absurd that the sun is on the 'other side' of the world when it rises in Southern Hemisphere, and I had the time to mull it over and chew on it, and it makes sense now to me on a Flat Plane, if the sun is close it would be noticeable and observable in Southern Hemisphere. Tangentially, it would make sense that it is so much colder in AA; which it is. The global record low temperatures are all in the antarctic.

Anyway the shape of FE debates are always ad hoc, so improvised responses can be hard, I guess. Sorry for being so late with this, I had to put a lot of thought into it.

Remember that in mid-summer (21 Dec) McMurdo Station, Antarctica - (@ Lat, long of 77.8419° S, 166.6863° E) has daylight at around 1:50 AM on 21/Dec, with the sun due South,
Invercargill, New Zealand (@ Lat, long of 46.4132° S, 168.3538° E) is in complete darkness at the same time (sunset @ 9:39 PM, sunruse 5:50 AM).

Fits perfectly with the Globe, but please explain how this fits with your "musings".

You won't get a reasonable answer to this from FE,'ers. They will just say data is false or prove it.
And I don't suppose observations of those that live here count.

They certainly don't with İntikam, who literally accused me of lying for claiming I could look out the back door and see the Southern Cross circle clockwise around the SCP!

#### nametaken

• 87
• ͡ ͡° ͜ ʖ ͡ ͡°
##### Re: Length of a day in the Southern Hemisphere in December
« Reply #39 on: September 28, 2016, 02:25:10 PM »
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Any thoughts? I just remember in this thread someone said it was absurd that the sun is on the 'other side' of the world when it rises in Southern Hemisphere, and I had the time to mull it over and chew on it, and it makes sense now to me on a Flat Plane, if the sun is close it would be noticeable and observable in Southern Hemisphere. Tangentially, it would make sense that it is so much colder in AA; which it is. The global record low temperatures are all in the antarctic.

Anyway the shape of FE debates are always ad hoc, so improvised responses can be hard, I guess. Sorry for being so late with this, I had to put a lot of thought into it.

Remember that in mid-summer (21 Dec) McMurdo Station, Antarctica - (@ Lat, long of 77.8419° S, 166.6863° E) has daylight at around 1:50 AM on 21/Dec, with the sun due South,
Invercargill, New Zealand (@ Lat, long of 46.4132° S, 168.3538° E) is in complete darkness at the same time (sunset @ 9:39 PM, sunruse 5:50 AM).

Fits perfectly with the Globe, but please explain how this fits with your "musings".

Well that's what that spare cloth you get with nice pants is for, I recently found out; to test wash and see how it reacts to washing. Always test that before throwing the whole thing in. Hard lesson for me it seems, but I'm getting there. Of course, would have to go there to verify. I prefer more warm and humid climates though, so I'll be setting this one aside for now. Can't find any more objections here. Nice strong impression.
The Flat Earth Society has members all around the Globe
[H]ominem unius libri timeo ~Truth is stranger.