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Flat Earth Theory / Re: Seeking Understanding

« on: December 27, 2017, 12:02:01 PM »

Hi folks,

Obligatory Disclaimer:  I do not believe in a flat earth, based on a whole slew of reasons that probably don't interest you.  However, I am genuinely curious as to why you believe the earth is flat.  I'm not here to troll or flame you, nor am I here to change your minds.  I'm simply trying to understand.

I dont blame you, we all want to understand

I read the Flat Earth Wiki first as this site suggested, and I've come away with three questions from it that I was hoping you could clarify for me.

1. The Bedford Level Experiment section is word for word copy/pasted from Wikipedia (or the other way around, I'm not sure which).  However, it does not include any mention of atmospheric light refraction which is a known phenomena.  Do you as believers in a flat earth discount this phenomena, or it's applicability to this particular test?  How do you reconcile the flat earth theory with this flaw in the Bedford Level experiment?

Generally, this phenomena is taken into account and thats why people have conducted tests away from bodies of water, along salt planes and using lasers instead at a higher starting point negating any impact light refraction could have, which means genuinely, nobody has yet found any curvature! 

2.  In the Flat Earth Wiki, it states that "The light of the sun is confined to a limited area and its light acts like a spotlight upon the earth."   However, there is no citation or link to further reading material on this claim.  What reason is there for this, rather than the sun being an omnidirectional light source?  If the sun shined on a specific part of a flat earth, there would need to be something directing that light towards that specific spot rather than shining equally over the face of a flat earth.  Could you please clarify and explain this to me?
Also, side note, how does this explain lunar phases as well?

Theres lots of videos on youtube that explains how this works, some have different ways of explaining it to others, watch a few and then choose which one makes more sense to you! I think I have seen them all, some take seasons into account ect...... so there are some pretty comprehensive explanations

3.  You state that Antarctica is in fact an ice wall that surrounds a flat earth, rather than a continent that can be traversed.  For this question, please forgive my horrific MS Paint skills (Apologies for the screenshot links, but these pictures were too large to attach to the post).

Is this not a claim that can be easily tested? If one were to start on the edge of the coast of Antarctica, and walk "inland" directly opposite the direction towards the ocean, eventually you would come to the other side of the continent, thus negating the premise of a wall.   If you were concerned about the walker getting disoriented and eventually moving in parallel with the coastline before he ended his trip on the "other side, there is a method to solve that as well. 
Imagine two separate points along the coastline, with a third point equidistant between them.  This third point in the middle would be the inland walker, and he would maintain his equidistant position between the two coastline points (which are not moving) as he walked using simple geometry to check his position as he travelled.
Test 1:  http://prntscr.com/hspj7d
Test 2:  http://prntscr.com/hspjm4

I suppose my question out of all that is this:  Has such a test been attempted by a flat earth believer, and if so what were the results.  If it has not been attempted, would there be people willing to attempt it (obviously with aircraft, for the reasons of better survivability in a harsh climate and also better instrumentation for confirming course and position).

I see what you mean by testing in that method, yes you are correct! you seem to understand it pretty well which puts you at a much higher intelligence then most newcomers well done! 

As for has anybody attempted it- well if you discount the people that fairly recently mysteriously went missing, NO. There has been plenty of attempts to go from one end to the other, there was that man who was doing it solo, he thought he had another 30 miles to go before he died, but there is belief that he found the wall, and could not find a way past it, he just kept navigating outside the wall until he died, could not find a way in,
 thats not my theory - but Ive seen it posted somewhere cannot think where though

Anyways, I look forward to hearing your replies.  Cheers!

Welcome to the forum too!

Keep asking questions until you are satisfied either way.

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Flat Earth Community / Re: Doesn't the bible say the sun and moon are IN the firmament?

« on: December 27, 2017, 11:36:46 AM »

I know not every flat-earther here may be christian, but to any who are, doesn't the bible state that the sun and moon were attached to the dome of the firmament? Doesn't this contradict this websites position that the sun and moon are inside of the dome, above the earth instead?

I used to be a Jehovahs witness, In the JW bible, ( which is VERY similar to the christian bible ) it starts in genisis just as the christian bible, and mentions the firmament too , later in the bible about the 'floodgates of the firmanent' and the 4 corners of the world, and that Jehovah ( god ) promised to never flood the earth again! How could he flood it in the first place unless he had the largest water container in the world? the firmament of course which as suggested in the bible, is water!

From a christian / Jw and probably some other religious groups points of view from the bible - the dome / firmament is real.

I have yet to make my mind up about flat earth being real, so my opinion is not worth much but here goes.

The Moon is above or inside the firmament, with a fantastic camera, it looks underwater, so do the stars - the stars look like bubbles being radiated.

The sun, is a difficult one! It cant be inside a body of water or it would be 'put out' extinguished. So, the sun is probably within the firmament, or above the firmament further away then the stars! whichever one - is hard to beleive, but dont forget the official story is also hard to believe! ( not so hard to believe because youve always been told and its sunk in by now ) 93 million miles away! But going from the equator to say, germany causes a fairly large difference in temperature............. and something 93 million miles away surely, at that distance cannot cause much more then a 0.01% difference in reality with temperatures? Thats the way my mind comprehends it .

It makes more sense from a difference of temperature across the world to believe the sun is much closer then suggested. weather earth is globe or flat.

Plus how does the sun burn in space without oxygen? well - apparently it uses hydrogen and other gases blah blah...... really? who has been 93 million miles to see and take specimens of what the sun burn on? perhaps space does have oxygen? or perhaps there is no space, and the sun is within our atmosphere fixed to the firmanent, moving along with the other stars..... perhaps, the sun is above the firmament and is actually smaller , but looks bigger due to the water magnifying it?

why do we get sun dogs? ice crystals?? yeah right.

many things do not add up, I saw a sun dog two weeks ago, amazing sight - looked like somebody had placed a massive glass bowl upside down in the sky!

The fact we have life, and perfect environments to live and breed in, suggest we must have a creator, and if you read the whole christian bible , you may very well believe in a flat earth with a firmament more then ever before!

Dont forget, we are under ( satans rule ) and it is hes very job to deceive us all through man, God himself said we would all be deceived ( and lied to )on a massive scale, what if this lie is 'the globe' It makes biblical sense to me.

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Flat Earth Projects / Re: Organising an ANTARCTICA exploration

« on: December 27, 2017, 11:11:57 AM »

Agree with getting paid to go, we need to advertise and rather then have one leader, it would probably be better to have a few leaders in separate groups while out there in Antarctica.

Does any permission need to be granted to 1, visit, 2 use grounded vehicles, 3 use aviation machines when there?
If so, who grants the permission?

How will you know where you are?

not sure, but if we leave a trail of breadcrumbs, we should find our way back ok.

lol, Well, perhaps anyone doing the actual exploring should fully learn to navigate using the stars.

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Flat Earth Projects / Re: Organising an ANTARCTICA exploration

« on: December 26, 2017, 05:10:44 PM »

Agree with getting paid to go, we need to advertise and rather then have one leader, it would probably be better to have a few leaders in separate groups while out there in Antarctica.

Does any permission need to be granted to 1, visit, 2 use grounded vehicles, 3 use aviation machines when there?
If so, who grants the permission?

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Flat Earth Projects / Organising an ANTARCTICA exploration

« on: December 26, 2017, 04:41:29 PM »

 
lets explore Antarctica


1,Who is interested?
2,What would be the warmest time to go?
3.Any idea on cost per head?
4,what would be the cheapest method of travel?
5,what could be used for travel when getting there?

in reply to my own questions, I would just like to point out this is possible because.......

1, Does not just have to be 'flat earth believers' coming along, Im sure some of the die hard globe believers like the idea of gloating at the flat earthers when they see for themselves upon exploring antarctica that the earth is actually a globe upon finding the other side of antarctica.
3, my guess is without sponsorship or celebrity interest it will be affordable unless there are hundreds if not close to 1000 people coming along to help, not 1000 to explore! but we will need people to help witha vast array of tasks / catering ect.
4, Surely it has to be a ship.
5, snow ski, snow buggy, monster trucks? tailor made vehicle, helicopter from the ship? small private aircraft?

With celebrity interest, anything is possible - Im fed up with watching 'frozen planet', the narrator himself said earlier, another 700 miles further is just ice ( so basically theres no point going any further ) was david attenborough told to say that? does he truly believe that? who knows....

One of those ready made Antarctica tours never go far enough, anyone can come along out of interest no matter what you believe so theres no stigma attached!

Would anyone like to take charge of the organizing of this trip? if so step forward 

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Technology & Information / Re: The Flat Earth Society official IRC chat

« on: December 23, 2017, 02:14:25 PM »

Is irc a game, Im not sure? Thanks

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Flat Earth Theory / Re: Earthquakes can't exist if the world is flat, but they do exist sooo....

« on: December 23, 2017, 12:38:37 PM »

I recently had a brain wave and started questioning wether it is really hot under the surface of the crust or not, i.e does it get hotter the deeper you go.

So I started researching this , and what better people to ask then miners themselves. So I went on a miners forum and it was plainly obvious( judging by there comments without actually asking directly), that it gets intensly hot the deeper you go. This is proof enough to me at this time, that at the core ( if earth is a ball ) Its extremely hot. Not exactly news to anyone!

But, This means we are either on a ball with a hot centre, or a flat plane with a lot of heat for some wierd reason underneath.

I suppose the pressure from the mass on earth is enough to put so much pressure on the mass and create heat, ( if thats how you explain the theory)  But it does not tally well in my mind with the earth being flat, alright I understand we have some earth / mud stone or whatever underneath us but how much?

And the reason why it matters is because if the earth is flat, do we have an infinaty of mass under us? or can we drill deep enough to hollow out a hole? If that was possible on a flat earth,What would it be on the 'other side' is space we drill into / water OR..............................

moulten lava?

I think its so hypothetical, that we will never find any other explanation other then the official one we have, Sadly we cannot go to the shop and buy a 8000 mile long drill bit! so we will never know.

as for earthquakes, I dont see why it could not happen on a flat earth too? perhaps certain physics would need to be re-comprehended, but well.... why not?

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Flat Earth Theory / Re: Anyone want to help prove the earth is flat?

« on: December 23, 2017, 11:55:49 AM »

could the results also be skewed if the sun is above a dome? ( the reason sun dogs make me think a dome / firmament is actually possible )

As a side note, I saw a sun dog last weekend in the sky, Using my sons camera I zoomed in 105x optical zoom, and it was no illusion

Or would it not matter i.e dome or not?

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Flat Earth Theory / Re: Soundly Proving the Curvature of the Earth at Lake Pontchartrain

« on: December 23, 2017, 11:09:12 AM »

Sorry if this has been pointed out, But on the first picture / illustration of the first post on page one, is a little incorrect!

The two poles, should be leaning outwards at the top, not going straight up. This would bring the 'line of sight' lower too.

Again, sorry if thats been pointed out already ( and sorry if I am incorrect!)


Your video does obviously show curvature. We all know we can only trust ourselves though.

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Flat Earth Theory / Re: Non metal pendulums / black sun

« on: December 23, 2017, 10:56:17 AM »

Thanks for your reply.

When I first thought about doing the rope / string experiement I also thought about what you said using a fence or posts, and yes that would be as accurate as you can get. But I dismissed that idea due to it not being something that could easily be recreated without extra expense, and much greater difficulty, being out in the sea putting posts  together would be much more difficult then sailing and letting the reel of string / rope extend as you sail to the other side, you could even walk on the sand with the string and just use a little dingy for this experiment.

I know the wieght of the rope / string will make it sag, and to me this is not really a problem as it can only sag downwards, If the curvature over 6 miles alloys for a 12 foot drop, and the 'sag is less then 12 feet ( say 8 feet ), then the test is still a success of there being no or ( less then there should be ) curvature. This is where you need muscle to make the rope / string taught, and a very strong string, the lighter the better.

If the rope sagged upwards, that would negate the experiment yes totally, but due to gravity ( or density ) the rope actually works with you in a way, you could start by tieing the rope 12 feet above sea level to make things easier, if you can get the rope so taught it does not touch the water, effectivaly you have proven the curvature is too small .

I like your idea, I had somthing very similar in my mind too, Im just trying to find a method that is cheap, and do-able as I believe more real experiments must be done using real ingrediants! Not gps / apps / lenses ect.... real experiments that to my mind, and from what I can see having researched this, has not really been tested anywhere or puvlished online - I can find laser equivilents, but who do we know with certainty that light does not really bend? a rope or string, will not bend anyway other then downwards 

One other thing, do compasses only work when held flat because the bearings / mechanical design does not allow it to be held any different ( like a fidget spinner makes more noise and decreases its momentum faster if held diagonally ) Or could it be because the north ( or whatever is causing the attraction ?)  is somewhere along the flat plane?

Any thoughts on the pendulum needing to be metal to work, or am I barking up the wrong tree?

And I intend on sitting on the fence, until I know the real facts which may never happen, I may have unlearnt the earth is a globe! ( though I never truly learnt that for myself - I was told ) meaning all this could be a waste of time, But I am still learning new things / concepts / theories / physics I never understood so by no means a total loss.

What does not add up, is the fact there are so many commentators of flat earth videos, that really seem to have a chip on thier shoulder with the possibility of there being a flat earth. What I notice, is those who DO believe in the flat earth are commenting smartly, and the ones commenting on the earth being a globe, come accross as Nerds ( taught so much of the globe ideas, it could never be unlearnt or make any other sense to them ) Or the rude ones, who seem quite un-educated, and probably never put in the time to research things from a neutral perspective.
Plus theres the antarctic treaty, what A. Byrd said, the fact the globe is everywhere / books / apps / videos / colouring in books ( not mine, the kids ) its really shoved in our faces on a daily basis...... so much so, that we do not give the image upon seeing it any thought anymore, ' oh yeah its the globe again ' move on... Why does that have to displayed so often? why do we pay for a tv liscence, but not pay for gps ? because, gps makes us unlearn true map reading, AND gives us the belief, satellites are up there, because our gps works.... If it was called wireless navigation  instead, it would probably be chargeable...... If anyone follows me?

why do tv satalites dishes point south? how can a satalite up in space stay still? if the atmoshpere travels 1000mph at equator, then further up from the crust the speed is greater, But then again, if its 0mph at the poles, that makes it possible?

I have too many questions for one post, But I would also like to understand better why nasa test in water, The bible says heavens / firmament is water too? Hmm.

can we all chip in, buy a big MASSIVE hot air balloon created to just keep going up , with cameras and a string tied to it on a reel below? I know the reel would have to be hundreds / thousands miles long as is not practical plus the wieght would be huge for that too.

I just feel, some real practical experiments need doing. I really want to know for definate, because to be honest with everone , if the earth IS flat, and if we do have a firmament afterall , I think I will become religous, as that to me, would prove god is a very real possibility, while right now if we are on a globe, how can there be other planets and be a god, what was he thinking making mercury and pluto.... ect... god does not make sense on a globe to me.

Sorry to bombard with my nonsense everyone. Mostly thinking out loud, without the capacity to write it in any clearer english , I only got a 'e' in english from gcse,s I missed a lot of school....    , but got a c in science at least, and we all love science  right........ ( science based upon infinate possibility, Not 'real science' - which is based upon one set of calculations that could have missed something out of the equation  )

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Flat Earth Theory / Non metal pendulums / black sun

« on: December 23, 2017, 09:50:31 AM »

Hi all , Im new here and trying to decipher if the earth is flat or not. Ive seen so many youtube videos , the person who made me think and start researching this topic is sombody called 'James' he has the ' that is impossible' channel on youtube.

I have some general questions I have searched for, but struggle to find answers.

1, Does a pendulum only work if its ball is metal? I cant find any wooden / plastic or stone pendulums for sale? If they only work when metal, that could mean they only work not because of the movement of earth, but due to some unknown magnetic source - possibly the moon / black sun / iron at north pole .....

2, Is there iron at the north pole or even a country or is it just water?

3, If earth moves 1000+mph at equator, and zero at the poles, then if you where to fly a long flight time quadcopter 1 mile out from where you were standing right at the north or south pole, given the speed of the atmosphere is supposed to travel with the earth at about 1mph to 10mph ( complete guess for sake of question ) then would the quadcopter start drifting given it may only be 10mph for an hour, but if the quadcopter could remain in the sky for a whole hour, it could cover / drift 10 miles ? does anyone understand this question? has anyone ever tried an experiment like this? I know standing in the middle of a merry go round it doesnt feel that fast, but if you leave the dead centre, you immediately feel the force, could there be a hint of movement detectable to a human, from standing dead centre of the north pole to standing off it?

4, Ive seen all the horizon zoom in on ship videos, some genially seem to go over a horizon, but some genuinely  never dissapeer! But has anyone tried with trusty rope, or string or cord, to tie one post of a pier about 2 foot above the water, get on a boat and sail to a different pier say 6 miles away and attatch the same cable / string to a post at the other pier, 2 feet above water, nice and tight to see if the string disapeers a few feet under the water as it should? Ive seen 5000m strong string for sale on ebay for less then £20, tie two together to get 6 miles, for £40, its an experiment that could actually be done in my mind and if the string is really strong enough, and if the rope does not dip below the water, that would be absolute proof to me, that there is no curvature - I considered doing this myself as the zooming in videos you can only trust the distance the video uploader claims, but a rope / string  will not lie, and light cannot bend in this experiment ( not that it does anyway ) but rules that out.

Sorry for my badly put together set of questions, I would love to hear any thoughts, Im sitting on the edge of a globe or flat earth, I just cannot decide at the moment what to believe.

And hi everyone by the way, my first post  .