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91
Flat Earth Investigations / Re: What is the true map of the earth?
« Last post by AATW on May 02, 2024, 04:39:50 PM »
The sun can't set on a FE where the sun is above the plane of the earth at all times.
Do you have evidence to back up this outright lie?
Yes. The evidence is that if the sun is a few thousand miles above a flat earth then you would have a clear line of sight to it at all time. What would stop you seeing it? It would also change significantly in angular size, angular speed and luminosity throughout the day as your distance to it varies. None of that happens.
All that is in the context of the mainstream physics. You may have other mechanisms to explain this - EA, some magnification effect and I'm not sure about the luminosity one - the sun does admittedly change at sunset, but not during most of the day as it surely would if the sun was at a significantly different distance.

As I said, EA is a reasonable explanation. It's better than "perspective" which makes no sense at all. But it is at best a hypothesis, not a well formed theory.
92
Flat Earth Investigations / Re: What is the true map of the earth?
« Last post by Action80 on May 02, 2024, 03:57:08 PM »
The sun can't set on a FE where the sun is above the plane of the earth at all times.
Do you have evidence to back up this outright lie?

Why do you persist in repeatedly writing this outright lie on this forum?
93
Flat Earth Investigations / Re: What is the true map of the earth?
« Last post by AATW on May 02, 2024, 01:38:31 PM »
Rowbotham's original society solved the sinking ship.
Did it, though? He spends some time in ENaG claiming that things like ladies dresses disappear bottom first on a flat path, which they don't. And then he claims that ships which have gone over the horizon can be "restored", which they can't.

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Lady Blount's society collected the professional surveyor and railway proofs.
Did they? Well where are those then? I looked her up and found something about some photo they took. It's here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth,_Lady_Blount#/media/File:Blount-photo-bedford-level.jpg
What the hell is that supposed to be?!

EA and UA are admittedly pretty good explanations for certain observations BUT they are just that.
The sun can't set on a FE where the sun is above the plane of the earth at all times. So EA is used as an explanation. It's not a bad one, but it's at best a hypothesis that "light bends upwards", and the formula shown in the Wiki has no derivation and an unknown constant.
The model mainstream physics has of gravity can't work on a FE so UA is used as an explanation. Again, not a bad one but it doesn't explain variations of gravity so those have to be hand-waved away.

This is an issue with your way of enquiring. You form a theory which explains observation rather than forming a hypothesis and then making observations which test that hypothesis - which then becomes a theory as observations build confidence. I know this is deliberate, and working the other way around could lead to the same conclusions. The issue though is when observations are presented which show your theory to be wrong you just claim they're wrong/flawed/fake. That's not a way to make progress.

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If you ask me what is happening on earth thousands of miles away, there will be less research there. The total world model is a topic for the next generation of FE to figure out.
Is it, though? There are flat earthers all around the...disc, right? And we have instant communications now.
There are surely ways you can do large scale experiments reasonably cheaply. I'm sure you could club together and get a ticket for a Santiago to Sydney plane ticket, a FE person on that flight could gather a load of data which would help you advance things.

Are you now leaning towards the bi-polar model? That does solve some issues - like how there are jobs in Antarctica, sailing races around it and so on. But I'm not sure how the 24 hour sun works in the Arctic and Antarctic AND the other observed patterns of light and motion of the sun would work. It solves some problems which the monopole model has in the southern hemisphere, but it seems to create some equally big ones.
94
Flat Earth Investigations / Re: What is the true map of the earth?
« Last post by Action80 on May 02, 2024, 12:49:30 PM »
The answer to this question is entirely dependent on the purpose for which it was asked.

No one navigates utilizing a map of the entire earth.

Waypoints utilized for navigation by seafarers and aviators have been transcribed to the flat earth plane utilizing overhead coordinates of matching guiding light points from the celestial sphere above our heads.
95
Flat Earth Investigations / Re: What is the true map of the earth?
« Last post by Tom Bishop on May 02, 2024, 11:24:14 AM »
"... faster winds in the south ....".  Ah yes, we've been here before. 

There was a link there: https://wiki.tfes.org/Issues_in_Flight_Analysis

I am asking you guys to address the topics in the link, rather than just read and ignore it and pretend that nothing was posted.

Amongst others at the moment, (now, 0912UTC on 2 May 2024) LAN-Chile has 2 Boeing 787 Dreamliners airborne over the South Pacific. 

Reg CC-BGG is operating as LAN801 from Santiago to Auckland, a route planned as about 5300NM.  The aircraft is just under halfway and estimates completing the journey with a flight time of 12 hours, giving an average ground speed of 440 kts

Its sister ship, CC-BGH is operating as LAN804 from Melbourne to Santiago, a route planned as about 6200NM.  The aircraft is about halfway and estimates completing the journey with a flight time also of 12 hours, giving an average ground speed of 520 kts

Taking the average of the westbound and eastbound flights, 480 kts, would suggest an westerly wind component of 40 kts acting as a headwind hampering LAN801 and assisting LAN804.  Wikipedia lists the cruising speed of a Dreamliner as 488 to 516 kts. 

As the captains of both aircraft would not have departed unless they were sure of the distance and fuel needed, I would suggest that calculating the distance from South America to Australasia has been calculated in considerably less than "20 to 30 years", and that the windspeeds are well understood. 

Those numbers are around the plane's cruise speed. But the plane should not be traveling at a speed around its cruising speed, since we know that on long haul flights planes across the oceans planes use jet streams to reach their location. It would be traveling the plane's cruising speed + jet stream.

Jetstreams even enable supersonic flight for commercial aircraft.

On the flight trackers there have been some interesting anomalies. Jeran shows at the 1h32m mark of the following video about the flight between Auckland and Santiago that True Airspeed can be seen to far exceed ground speed. Over the course of the flight the True Airspeed is either "N/A" or shows quite fast speeds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKKHY72x3ZU

Screen shot:



96
Flat Earth Investigations / Re: What is the true map of the earth?
« Last post by DuncanDoenitz on May 02, 2024, 09:12:36 AM »
"... faster winds in the south ....".  Ah yes, we've been here before. 

Amongst others at the moment, (now, 0912UTC on 2 May 2024) LAN-Chile has 2 Boeing 787 Dreamliners airborne over the South Pacific. 

Reg CC-BGG is operating as LAN801 from Santiago to Auckland, a route planned as about 5300NM.  The aircraft is just under halfway and estimates completing the journey with a flight time of 12 hours, giving an average ground speed of 440 kts

Its sister ship, CC-BGH is operating as LAN804 from Melbourne to Santiago, a route planned as about 6200NM.  The aircraft is about halfway and estimates completing the journey with a flight time also of 12 hours, giving an average ground speed of 520 kts

Taking the average of the westbound and eastbound flights, 480 kts, would suggest an westerly wind component of 40 kts acting as a headwind hampering LAN801 and assisting LAN804.  Wikipedia lists the cruising speed of a Dreamliner as 488 to 516 kts. 

As the captains of both aircraft would not have departed unless they were sure of the distance and fuel needed, I would suggest that calculating the distance from South America to Australasia has been calculated in considerably less than "20 to 30 years", and that the windspeeds are well understood. 
97
Flat Earth Investigations / Re: What is the true map of the earth?
« Last post by Tom Bishop on May 02, 2024, 03:22:31 AM »
Rowbotham's original society solved the sinking ship. Lady Blount's society collected the professional surveyor and railway proofs. This specific society's contribution to Flat Earth has been the celestial model and the gravitational model. Progress was made on these subjects because they are things we can see and test. And with that, we have basically been done here with our current constraints. If you ask me what is happening on earth thousands of miles away, there will be less research there. The total world model is a topic for the next generation of FE to figure out.

At the current trajectory I estimate that it will take twenty or thirty more years for the wider Flat Earth community to actually figure out and perform and repeat the necessary tests that check all the boxes.

At the moment among the Monopole supporters there seems to be some division on whether there are faster winds in the south or whether the planes are actually following the straight line Flat Earth Azimuthal path to their destination, as evidenced by emergency landings.

Someday they might figure it out, but it's not going to be anytime soon.
98
Flat Earth Investigations / What is the true map of the earth?
« Last post by AnneFrothingslosh on May 01, 2024, 10:58:49 PM »
There are north-centered, bipolar, etc. map models. But what is the real map? What are the pros and cons of each?
100
Philosophy, Religion & Society / Re: Trump
« Last post by honk on May 01, 2024, 01:23:09 AM »
Very impressive, Trump now has even more paper wealth that he can't realize or use in any meaningful way.