Offline AMann

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Re: How do we know the Earth is spherical?
« Reply #140 on: March 06, 2016, 09:59:32 AM »
Who is more likely to have confirmation bias? The person adhering to something they were taught since kindergarten, or the person who just learned about a re-emerging model for our universe?

The one who chooses to ignore evidence.

Obviously you can't follow a question very well, because that wasn't an answer at all.

I asked a straight forward question and got a deflection, nice one.

Of course it was an answer.
The likelihood that someone falls into the trap of confirmational bias is less dependent on the information given to the individual than their ability to look objectively at data and draw logical conclusions.

Not my fault that you asked a silly question and then failed to understand the answer.

Offline AMann

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Re: How do we know the Earth is spherical?
« Reply #141 on: March 06, 2016, 10:31:19 AM »
I still don't understand how gravity, an attraction of two different objects, can make one circle around the other. So it isn't a leap for me to begin to question things and research with an open mind.

Knowledge of what you do not understand is the right step towards asking appropriate questions and researching with an open mind.

While much of gravity is still a mystery to physicists, we do have a general understanding of how it works.
(The following is overly simplified, but you can easily look up additional information online - if you need some links to get you started, simply ask).
Although we often hear about (and treat) Gravity as a force, it really isn't. It's convenient that the general principles of force effectively work when calculating its effects between objects. For lack of a simpler way of explaining it, it is a 3-dimensional indentation in the fabric of space-time.
We can represent it easily enough 2-dimensionally. If you place an object on a trampoline, you can see an indentation which differs based on the mass of the object you placed on it. Let's say you place a rock melon in the middle of the trampoline. You also place marbles all around the trampoline at varying distances. The marbles closest to the rock melon will roll towards the rock melon until they reach it and can go no further. Some marbles further away may start to approach the rock melon slowly, but as they get closer, they will gain speed (sound similar to the increased speed due to the acceleration caused by gravity as an object falls towards the surface of Earth?) until they also meet up with the rock melon. Some of the marbles that are the furthest away may not be affected at all due to the indentation created by the rock melon not being large enough. Increasing the mass in the middle of the trampoline (substituting the rock melon with say a bowling ball) will create a larger indentation which will affect a greater area of the trampoline and cause more (if not all) of the marbles to roll towards it.
This is essentially the same effect seen when looking at celestial bodies. The effect is 3-dimensional instead of the simplified 2-dimensional explanation.

Now, for how orbits work.
Have you ever seen one of those donation funnels they often have at the entrances/exits of places like museums? You place a coin in the slot, let it go and watch it spin around the funnel, slowly making its way towards the center where it drops into the hole.
For an orbit to work, you need motion. If you simply place a coin on the funnel itself and let it go, it will not circle around, it will simply fall straight into the hole. The coin needs to be already moving (and not towards the hole - perpendicular to the direction of the hole for best results) and it will circle around. The same is true of celestial bodies. They need to be in motion or they will simply fall straight towards the object with greater mass. In the case of the funnel, the coin eventually falls into the hole. This would be horrible if it happened to the Earth lol. The reason why the coin falls into the hole is that it is constantly losing energy to friction. Less energy means less speed which results in smaller and smaller orbits until it reaches the point where orbiting the hole is no longer possible and it falls right in. If it wasn't for this loss of energy, the coin would orbit the hole at a set distance indefinitely. In space we do not have to worry about friction slowing us down, so our orbit continues along a set path until something happens to change it.
Again, what happens in the funnel is a 2-dimensional example of what happens. Gravity itself works in 3-dimensions (4 if you include Time, since relativity has been confirmed and we know that gravity affects the flow of time).

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Re: How do we know the Earth is spherical?
« Reply #142 on: March 07, 2016, 03:18:15 AM »


Propaganda is a fierce mistress.

What exactly makes you think it is propaganda? The points were pretty solid to me.

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Offline juner

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Re: How do we know the Earth is spherical?
« Reply #143 on: March 07, 2016, 04:12:02 AM »
Fact: No you won't.

Hello and welcome. Please take some time to familiarize yourself with the rules and FAQ. You can find all of the links in my signature. Also, please refrain from low content posting in the upper fora in the future. Thanks!

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Offline Woody

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Re: How do we know the Earth is spherical?
« Reply #144 on: March 07, 2016, 05:20:28 AM »
That video is just embarrassing, even by RET standards. It's fallacies from beginning to end. The #1 reason we know the Earth is round is because we have pictures of it? Does this mean RET endorses the existence of the Loch Ness monster, aliens, ghosts, and bigfoot?

lol
How many pictures of Loch Ness, aliens, ghosts and bigfoot are there out there? I do not have an exact answer, but I will say 100 (and that is probably generous). How many of these pictures have not yet been shown to be frauds? 0. There are no viable photos of Loch Ness, aliens, ghosts, bigfoot, etc.
How many pictures of Earth from space are there? Millions. And while there are always some people who can put up manufactured pictures, the pictures from reputable sources do not have a single picture that has been shown to be a fabrication.

If that is your best retort to the video, you do not have much of an argument... only denialism.

Can you point us to only 10? I know of only at most 5 that NASA claims to be an actual photo.

All others are composites and NASA very clearly tells you. So the challenge is to provide us and yourself at least 10 actual photographs of the earth from space.

THE ENTIRE PLANET! NOT PARTIAL IMAGES FROM THE ISS!

When you find out that you will not find even 10 photos I'd like to hear what you think about that.

Provide the links from NASA of at least 10 actual photos of earth from space. From NASA... from the NASA website!

You say there are millions. I am challenging you to put up or shutup.

If I am wrong I will shutup.

http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/browse/PIA00013.jpg

http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/browse/PIA00013.jpg

http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/catalog/PIA02441

http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/images/index.html?id=375652

http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/images/index.html?id=375652

http://www.nasa.gov/image-feature/africa-and-europe-from-a-million-miles-away

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/images/content/414588main_ats1-earth-labeled.jpg

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/Suomi/Images/ats3_color.jpg

http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/catalog/PIA10122

http://epic.gsfc.nasa.gov/  (has many non composite pictures)

  This video gives an explanation why there where not a whole lot of non composite pictures of the Earth until DSCOVR was launched.

Re: How do we know the Earth is spherical?
« Reply #145 on: March 07, 2016, 05:52:36 AM »
Lol he said millions

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: How do we know the Earth is spherical?
« Reply #146 on: March 07, 2016, 06:59:29 AM »
DSCOVR? Isn't that the one which took a picture of the earth with the word SEX spelled in the clouds?


Re: How do we know the Earth is spherical?
« Reply #147 on: March 07, 2016, 08:33:49 AM »
DSCOVR? Isn't that the one which took a picture of the earth with the word SEX spelled in the clouds?



It's also the one a million miles away, just so luckily launched at the exact right moment, velocity, and trajectory to find a theoretical still spot in space to get the perfect shot of earth.

And Al Gore came up with it and it only costed $100,000,000.

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Offline Rounder

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Re: How do we know the Earth is spherical?
« Reply #148 on: March 07, 2016, 09:15:49 AM »
It's also the one a million miles away, just so luckily launched at the exact right moment, velocity, and trajectory to find a theoretical still spot in space to get the perfect shot of earth.
And Al Gore came up with it and it only costed $100,000,000.

Not by luck, it is quite difficult to get to L1, some launch windows are measured in seconds.  And not theoretical (at least not to those of us who believe space flight happens).  DSCOVR shares the space around the L1 point with four other probes.
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Offline Woody

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Re: How do we know the Earth is spherical?
« Reply #149 on: March 07, 2016, 10:10:02 PM »
DSCOVR? Isn't that the one which took a picture of the earth with the word SEX spelled in the clouds?



It's also the one a million miles away, just so luckily launched at the exact right moment, velocity, and trajectory to find a theoretical still spot in space to get the perfect shot of earth.

And Al Gore came up with it and it only costed $100,000,000.

It still needs to have corrections made.

http://www.nasa.gov/content/goddard/noaas-dscovr-going-to-a-far-out-orbit/#.Vt33LpwrKUk

"At L1, the gravitational forces between the sun and Earth balance the centrifugal forces of a satellite to provide a quasi-stable orbit point requiring fewer orbital corrections (and  therefore reducing fuel consumption) for the spacecraft to remain in its operational location for a longer period of time."

It is also not just chance they put it in the right spot.  Do you really think they just launch multi-million dollar craft and hope things just work out?  Maybe there were some calculations involved as to when to launch and where the satellite needs to be.

Here is a link to the NOAA site that provides information on points of Lagrange and their usefulness for different types of observations. 

http://www.nesdis.noaa.gov/news_archives/points_of_lagrange.html#
 

Re: How do we know the Earth is spherical?
« Reply #150 on: March 07, 2016, 10:29:33 PM »
DSCOVR? Isn't that the one which took a picture of the earth with the word SEX spelled in the clouds?



It's also the one a million miles away, just so luckily launched at the exact right moment, velocity, and trajectory to find a theoretical still spot in space to get the perfect shot of earth.

And Al Gore came up with it and it only costed $100,000,000.

It still needs to have corrections made.

http://www.nasa.gov/content/goddard/noaas-dscovr-going-to-a-far-out-orbit/#.Vt33LpwrKUk

"At L1, the gravitational forces between the sun and Earth balance the centrifugal forces of a satellite to provide a quasi-stable orbit point requiring fewer orbital corrections (and  therefore reducing fuel consumption) for the spacecraft to remain in its operational location for a longer period of time."

It is also not just chance they put it in the right spot.  Do you really think they just launch multi-million dollar craft and hope things just work out?  Maybe there were some calculations involved as to when to launch and where the satellite needs to be.

Here is a link to the NOAA site that provides information on points of Lagrange and their usefulness for different types of observations. 

http://www.nesdis.noaa.gov/news_archives/points_of_lagrange.html#

I bet you are a huge Star Trek fan... this is nothing but science fiction as far as I'm concerned. I know it's a noble thought that humanity is capable of this level of engineering prowess, but I just don't buy it. Maybe if they would release all the operational notes, calculations, and data and research that was involved in this project to peer review I'd be more credulous. But a link to their own website with 3 paragraphs and a rudimentary graphic is not enough for me.

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Offline Woody

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Re: How do we know the Earth is spherical?
« Reply #151 on: March 08, 2016, 12:25:02 AM »
DSCOVR? Isn't that the one which took a picture of the earth with the word SEX spelled in the clouds?



It's also the one a million miles away, just so luckily launched at the exact right moment, velocity, and trajectory to find a theoretical still spot in space to get the perfect shot of earth.

And Al Gore came up with it and it only costed $100,000,000.

It still needs to have corrections made.

http://www.nasa.gov/content/goddard/noaas-dscovr-going-to-a-far-out-orbit/#.Vt33LpwrKUk

"At L1, the gravitational forces between the sun and Earth balance the centrifugal forces of a satellite to provide a quasi-stable orbit point requiring fewer orbital corrections (and  therefore reducing fuel consumption) for the spacecraft to remain in its operational location for a longer period of time."

It is also not just chance they put it in the right spot.  Do you really think they just launch multi-million dollar craft and hope things just work out?  Maybe there were some calculations involved as to when to launch and where the satellite needs to be.

Here is a link to the NOAA site that provides information on points of Lagrange and their usefulness for different types of observations. 

http://www.nesdis.noaa.gov/news_archives/points_of_lagrange.html#

I bet you are a huge Star Trek fan... this is nothing but science fiction as far as I'm concerned. I know it's a noble thought that humanity is capable of this level of engineering prowess, but I just don't buy it. Maybe if they would release all the operational notes, calculations, and data and research that was involved in this project to peer review I'd be more credulous. But a link to their own website with 3 paragraphs and a rudimentary graphic is not enough for me.

Here is a pretty good overview of DSCOVR.  Anything within you have questions about can be easily found with any search engine.

http://spaceflight101.com/dscovr/

I recommend using the advanced search to get what ever data you want that is available for the link provided below. What ever you select will be e-mailed to you for your review.

http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/dscovr/

Edit: Wanted to add this link I remembered finding the beginning of last year.  It is communication between some scientist and NASA talking about DSCOVR and the importance it was to their study of the climate on Earth.

http://desmogblog.com/sites/beta.desmogblog.com/files/released%20FOIA%20documents%20re%20DSCOVR.pdf
« Last Edit: March 08, 2016, 12:55:49 AM by Woody »

Offline AMann

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Re: How do we know the Earth is spherical?
« Reply #152 on: March 13, 2016, 08:30:36 PM »
I bet you are a huge Star Trek fan... this is nothing but science fiction as far as I'm concerned. I know it's a noble thought that humanity is capable of this level of engineering prowess, but I just don't buy it. Maybe if they would release all the operational notes, calculations, and data and research that was involved in this project to peer review I'd be more credulous. But a link to their own website with 3 paragraphs and a rudimentary graphic is not enough for me.

Well, this was a completely useless comment. Your inability to grasp scientific and engineering concepts is in no way evidence against scientific and engineering feats.
Operational notes and calculations are not new pieces of information that require peer review to validate.
Woody provided you with some additional information to answer the questions you may ask (assuming you even care to know the truth).

This topic really has been hijacked from the original post of reasons why we know the Earth is round. Arguing the validity of the space program rather than attempt to show evidence against the round Earth only serves to show that there is no evidence. If there was real evidence of a flat Earth, ftat-Earthers would be rubbing everyone's faces in it.

Re: How do we know the Earth is spherical?
« Reply #153 on: March 13, 2016, 10:07:21 PM »
I havent seen any legitimate evidence the world is round on this thread yey

Offline AMann

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Re: How do we know the Earth is spherical?
« Reply #154 on: March 15, 2016, 08:56:24 AM »
I havent seen any legitimate evidence the world is round on this thread yey

Then you failed to even watch the original video posted. It is simple enough for even those of sub-par IQ scores to understand.

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Offline rabinoz

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Re: How do we know the Earth is spherical?
« Reply #155 on: March 15, 2016, 12:42:14 PM »
I havent seen any legitimate evidence the world is round on this thread yey
One of the simpler points that comes indirectly from Geodetic Surveyors work is that shape of the earth simply will not fit on a plane surface!
In other words the earth is not flat.
I had thought that Flat Earth proponents might be even slightly interested, but no! All contrary evidence must bt definition be a lie, or so it seems

Have a look at http://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=4557.msg88728#msg88728.
Tom Bishop asks for evidence. The only measurements I used were:
distance from the equator to the north pole is (close to) 10,000 km and that the
equatorial circumference of the earth is (close to) 40,000 km.
These are well accepted approximations and fit with a degree of latitude or longitude at the equator each being 111.1 km.

Re: How do we know the Earth is spherical?
« Reply #156 on: March 15, 2016, 03:57:07 PM »
I havent seen any legitimate evidence the world is round on this thread yey

Then you failed to even watch the original video posted. It is simple enough for even those of sub-par IQ scores to understand.

Simple enough that simple people can wholesale believe. It even has playful sketches in bright colors to keep you interested. At least 7 of those points of those points have no indication whatsoever about the shape of the earth.

And I love how his doodle of Chicago over lake Michigan laughingly puts every building below the round horizon, yet ironically we DO see Chicago over Lake Michigan, there's no excuse to why you should be able to see any of it given the accepted value of the curvature of the earth. Brain fart on the doodle artists end in my opinion.

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Offline rabinoz

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Re: How do we know the Earth is spherical?
« Reply #157 on: March 15, 2016, 08:24:21 PM »

The earth IS NOT FLAT!

Fiddling with Chicago peering over Lake Michigan all like will not change facts!
« Last Edit: March 16, 2016, 03:06:39 AM by rabinoz »