SteelyBob

Re: Having a Brain Blank... Trust traditional compass, yes or no?
« Reply #160 on: August 16, 2023, 01:03:33 PM »
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I TEND to agree with you HERE, so how am I wrong? I already told you I don't have a model to defend/offer. He, on the other hand, does.

Since you are constantly demanding that I provide a complete FE model & accompanying explanations for you to criticize and compare to your globe model, I gave you his model so that you can go to his channel and complain there.

That said, he is much closer to truth than you are, and I'm pretty sure that he has refined his model since.

You said ‘none of this is a problem for FE’, and then offered up his video. Now you’re saying it is, actually, a problem.

Thanks for your honesty.

Dual1ty

Re: Having a Brain Blank... Trust traditional compass, yes or no?
« Reply #161 on: August 16, 2023, 01:10:47 PM »
[

I TEND to agree with you HERE, so how am I wrong? I already told you I don't have a model to defend/offer. He, on the other hand, does.

Since you are constantly demanding that I provide a complete FE model & accompanying explanations for you to criticize and compare to your globe model, I gave you his model so that you can go to his channel and complain there.

That said, he is much closer to truth than you are, and I'm pretty sure that he has refined his model since.

You said ‘none of this is a problem for FE’, and then offered up his video. Now you’re saying it is, actually, a problem.

Thanks for your honesty.

Unlike you, I am nothing but honest.

It's a problem if your model is wrong. Obviously it's not a problem for FE because we live on FE and all natural phenomena is a result of this.

So you could say that not knowing what's going on is the real problem. The difference is that flat-earthers want to find out what's going on, while globe-earthers just assume things based on explanations from their heliocentric religion. This is why you hold on to your heliocentric belief, because it explains the Universe for you and you don't want to let go of that sense of security.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2023, 01:12:25 PM by Dual1ty »

SteelyBob

Re: Having a Brain Blank... Trust traditional compass, yes or no?
« Reply #162 on: August 16, 2023, 01:20:40 PM »
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Unlike you, I am nothing but honest.

It's a problem if your model is wrong. Obviously it's not a problem for FE because we live on FE and all natural phenomena is a result of this.

So you could say that not knowing what's going on is the real problem. The difference is that flat-earthers want to find out what's going on, while globe-earthers just assume things based on explanations from their heliocentric religion. This is why you hold on to your heliocentric belief, because it explains the Universe for you and you don't want to let go of that sense of security.

But you haven’t offered up any observable issues with the globe model. Everything works and looks exactly as one would expect it to work and look.

There are lots of issues with assuming the earth is flat. There is no ‘model’ because every time somebody proposes one, it gets torn to shreds because it doesn’t work, or doesn’t conform to our observed reality - just like the video you just showed.

So if there’s nothing wrong with the globe model, and you don’t have a credible model of your own, then all you have is a belief.

Dual1ty

Re: Having a Brain Blank... Trust traditional compass, yes or no?
« Reply #163 on: August 16, 2023, 01:26:37 PM »
[
Unlike you, I am nothing but honest.

It's a problem if your model is wrong. Obviously it's not a problem for FE because we live on FE and all natural phenomena is a result of this.

So you could say that not knowing what's going on is the real problem. The difference is that flat-earthers want to find out what's going on, while globe-earthers just assume things based on explanations from their heliocentric religion. This is why you hold on to your heliocentric belief, because it explains the Universe for you and you don't want to let go of that sense of security.

But you haven’t offered up any observable issues with the globe model. Everything works and looks exactly as one would expect it to work and look.

There are lots of issues with assuming the earth is flat. There is no ‘model’ because every time somebody proposes one, it gets torn to shreds because it doesn’t work, or doesn’t conform to our observed reality - just like the video you just showed.

So if there’s nothing wrong with the globe model, and you don’t have a credible model of your own, then all you have is a belief.

You are lying again. I have offered several things that are wrong with the globe model. My latest one, which you dimissed, is that there are no experiments involving someone using a gyrocompass and a gyrocompass ONLY to reach the North Pole.

Reality needs no models - you think that reality is a competition of models and it is not. Reality could not care less about models. There are plenty of things wrong with your preferred globe model - you just ignore them. Meanwhile, I get closer to truth each day with no models. Just truth.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2023, 01:30:31 PM by Dual1ty »

SteelyBob

Re: Having a Brain Blank... Trust traditional compass, yes or no?
« Reply #164 on: August 16, 2023, 01:33:52 PM »


You are lying again. I have offered plenty of things that are wrong with the globe model. My latest one, which you dimissed, is that there are no experiments involving someone using a gyrocompass and a gyrocompass ONLY to reach the North Pole.

Reality needs no models - you think that reality is a competition of models and it is not. Reality could not care less about models. There are plenty of things wrong with your preferred globe model - you just ignore them. Meanwhile, I get closer to truth each day with no models. Just truth.

Whether or not somebody has navigated to the North Pole solely using a gyrocompass is not a problem with a model. I have no idea whether it’s been done - I would speculate that the early submarines that did it probably used gyrocompasses, but they may have had other tech as well - I don’t know. Had I found something, would you have changed your views or would you have dismissed it as being military, perhaps, and therefore suspect / part of the conspiracy?

When I say observable problems with the model I mean something that you can see or detect that isn’t what you would expect it to be given the proposed globe shape of the earth. I don’t recall you offering up any such thing, although I’m very happy to discuss one should you produce it.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2023, 01:43:35 PM by SteelyBob »

Dual1ty

Re: Having a Brain Blank... Trust traditional compass, yes or no?
« Reply #165 on: August 16, 2023, 01:38:46 PM »
Whether or not somebody has navigated to the North Pole solely using a gyrocompass is not a problem with a model. I have no idea whether it’s been done - I would speculate that the early submarines that did it probably used gyrocompasses, but they may have had other tech as well - I don’t know. Had I found something, would you have changed your views or would you have dismissed it as being military, perhaps, and therefore suspect / part of the conspiracy?

When I say observable problems with the model I mean something that you can see or detect that isn’t what you would expect it to be given the proposed globe shape of the earth. I don’t recall you offering up any such thing, although I’m very happy to discuss one should you produce it.

How is it NOT a huge problem for your model? If you claim that you can get to the North Pole with it but there is no evidence of that.

Next you're going to say that the fact there are no tangible measurements of the globe is not a problem for the globe model??

Don't do that...

SteelyBob

Re: Having a Brain Blank... Trust traditional compass, yes or no?
« Reply #166 on: August 16, 2023, 01:48:05 PM »
Whether or not somebody has navigated to the North Pole solely using a gyrocompass is not a problem with a model. I have no idea whether it’s been done - I would speculate that the early submarines that did it probably used gyrocompasses, but they may have had other tech as well - I don’t know. Had I found something, would you have changed your views or would you have dismissed it as being military, perhaps, and therefore suspect / part of the conspiracy?

When I say observable problems with the model I mean something that you can see or detect that isn’t what you would expect it to be given the proposed globe shape of the earth. I don’t recall you offering up any such thing, although I’m very happy to discuss one should you produce it.

How is it NOT a huge problem for your model? If you claim that you can get to the North Pole with it but there is no evidence of that.

Next you're going to say that the fact there are no tangible measurements of the globe is not a problem for the globe model??

Don't do that...

It's not a problem for the same reason it's not a problem that nobody has circumnavigated the equator wearing a luminous balaclava whilst riding a unicycle, or travelled to the centre of the earth's core in a horse-drawn ambulance. The only difference is that they might have actually done it, I just can't verify it, or rather I'm not going to expend energy doing so as I believe, for good reason, that you will dismiss anything I find anyway - just as you did with the various expeditions to the magnetic north pole.

It shouldn't matter though - you mentioned 'several things' wrong with the globe - do you have some more observations that contradict the model?

Dual1ty

Re: Having a Brain Blank... Trust traditional compass, yes or no?
« Reply #167 on: August 16, 2023, 02:05:23 PM »
Whether or not somebody has navigated to the North Pole solely using a gyrocompass is not a problem with a model. I have no idea whether it’s been done - I would speculate that the early submarines that did it probably used gyrocompasses, but they may have had other tech as well - I don’t know. Had I found something, would you have changed your views or would you have dismissed it as being military, perhaps, and therefore suspect / part of the conspiracy?

When I say observable problems with the model I mean something that you can see or detect that isn’t what you would expect it to be given the proposed globe shape of the earth. I don’t recall you offering up any such thing, although I’m very happy to discuss one should you produce it.

How is it NOT a huge problem for your model? If you claim that you can get to the North Pole with it but there is no evidence of that.

Next you're going to say that the fact there are no tangible measurements of the globe is not a problem for the globe model??

Don't do that...

It's not a problem for the same reason it's not a problem that nobody has circumnavigated the equator wearing a luminous balaclava whilst riding a unicycle, or travelled to the centre of the earth's core in a horse-drawn ambulance. The only difference is that they might have actually done it, I just can't verify it, or rather I'm not going to expend energy doing so as I believe, for good reason, that you will dismiss anything I find anyway - just as you did with the various expeditions to the magnetic north pole.

It shouldn't matter though - you mentioned 'several things' wrong with the globe - do you have some more observations that contradict the model?

Hahahaha! From globe teacher to globe politician, and now globe comedian!! ;D Marvelous!

Don't lie, I didn't dismiss the magnetic NP expeditions, I told you they are BS because they are. You didn't even know what you were sending, you just ASSUMED! I told you we need to explore that area I highlighted, DON'T flip that on me when you're the one dismissing Arctic exploration and the best your cult can come up with for an excuse is that no exploration goes on because it's pointless or dangerous.

I have mentioned more things that are wrong with your beloved cartoon globe model, you can look at my previous posts. And there are of course many more. Since I'm not here to please you and that's not the topic, I will ignore your request. But I already told you the big one, which is that there are no tangible measurements of the globe - and I will repeat this until the day I "die" because it is a fact.

Ultimately the globe model does generally work because it is derived from reality. But it is nothing except MATHEMATICAL MODELS and EXPLANATIONS, which AREN'T reality. There's a reason why we aren't allowed to explore Arctic and Antarctic freely, on a mass scale - It would debunk your model very quickly (not that it hasn't been debunked already in multiple different ways).
« Last Edit: August 16, 2023, 02:40:39 PM by Dual1ty »

SteelyBob

Re: Having a Brain Blank... Trust traditional compass, yes or no?
« Reply #168 on: August 16, 2023, 02:42:22 PM »

Hahahaha! From globe teacher to globe politician, and now globe comedian!! ;D Marvelous!

I aim to please.

Don't lie, I didn't dismiss the magnetic NP expeditions, I told you they are BS because they are.
That's an utterly brilliant sentence - thank you.

You didn't even know what you were sending, you just ASSUMED! I told you we need to explore that area I highlighted, DON'T flip that on me when you're the one dismissing Arctic exploration and the best your cult can come up with for an excuse is that no exploration goes on because it's pointless or dangerous.

I have mentioned more things that are wrong with your beloved cartoon globe model, you can look at my previous posts. And there are of course many more. Since I'm not here to please you and that's not the topic, I will ignore your request.
Well, people reading this will probably interpret that as you not actually having anything decent to offer. Your call.

But I already told you the big one, which is that there are no tangible measurements of the globe - and I will repeat this until the day I "die" because it is a fact.
What evidence do you have to support that claim? There are people navigating all over the world using globe earth measurements, with flawless precision. Civil engineers build large-scale structures, pipelines, cables etc, all with the same precision using the same measurements. You can track aircraft and ships flying / sailing all over the world and their travel times correspond perfectly with the globe expected distances. If there were discrepancies, that would be a perfect observed flaw in the model for you to raise - the problem you have is that there just aren't any. 

Ultimately the globe model does generally work because it is derived from reality.
Well, yes it does, and yes it is indeed derived from reality.

But it is nothing except MATHEMATICAL MODELS and EXPLANATIONS, which AREN'T reality.
Nobody is saying that a model is reality. What we are saying is that we can build useful mathematical / computer models of the earth, and indeed physical processes, that we can use to help us understand and predict the world around us. A map is ultimately a model - it will have certain limitations, but as long as it's accurate to a certain level then it will be useful. For simple work we can model the earth as sphere. That might be helpful for some analysis, but it might be overly simplistic for more precise use cases - for that we need to include its slight 'bulge' around the middle - it is an oblate spheroid, not a sphere. Likewise, we say it rotates once every 24 hours. It actually doesn't - it's a tiny bit less than that, and that difference might matter in some situations. There are numerous examples of this kind of thing - models will always have some simplification involved, it's just a question of what level of fidelity we need.

There's a reason why we aren't allowed to explore Arctic and Antarctic freely, on a mass scale. It would debunk your model very quickly (not that it hasn't been debunked already).

Your obsession with the Arctic and Antarctic is odd. They are both extremely inhospitable places, which means that not many people get to go there, but they still can and still do. It's similar to the bottom of the oceans - not easy places to be. But there is plenty of evidence available to you without needing to go there. Why not start at home?

Re: Having a Brain Blank... Trust traditional compass, yes or no?
« Reply #169 on: August 16, 2023, 05:38:08 PM »
...
But I already told you the big one, which is that there are no tangible measurements of the globe - and I will repeat this until the day I "die" because it is a fact.
...
Why do not the last couple of thousand years of all the various sorts of travel (time*speed=distance) plus explicit surveying plus of course https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eratosthenes in 200 BC or so not constitute "tangible measurements"?   Even more so now with GPS the earth has been extensively measured.
The contents of the GPS NAV message is the time of transmission and the orbital location of the transmitter at that time. If the transmitters are not where they claim to be GPS would not work.  Since it does work the transmitters must in fact be in orbit, which means the earth is round.

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Offline markjo

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Re: Having a Brain Blank... Trust traditional compass, yes or no?
« Reply #170 on: August 16, 2023, 09:06:15 PM »
What you call Coriolis effect is in fact an effect from toroidal deflation (deflating flow towards the center point). Earth is not a ball and it does not rotate.

Any questions?
Yes.  What is "toroidal deflation"?  What is deflating and what experiments have been performed to confirm this the existence phenomenon?
Abandon hope all ye who press enter here.

Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. -- Charles Darwin

If you can't demonstrate it, then you shouldn't believe it.