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Offline Beorn

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Re: Ice wall - the empirical evidence
« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2018, 03:04:53 PM »


Have you stood in both Chile and Sydney at the same time and checked that you looked in the same direction when looking south?

It is offensive to suggest that people living south of the equator are confused about the directions they go when they think they are heading south.  Two roads heading south get closer together the farther south you go, just like the need for correction lines in the north.  As I mentioned many times, the FE model works great if you ignore the fact that there are other people in other countries that matter a little bit.  You can distort the map of the southern hemisphere and believe it, so long as you ignore that people live in the areas that are wildly distorted and they do not have to travel great distances to get to their neighbors.  They are not all bumbling idiots.

Don't put words in my mouth!  >:( I have never in my life called anyone a bumbling idiot, and I resent the implication. Besides we have members all over the world and since they and I are not distorted, clearly the other hemispheres are also not distorted.
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Offline Science, bitch!

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Re: Ice wall - the empirical evidence
« Reply #21 on: March 21, 2018, 03:06:42 PM »


Have you stood in both Chile and Sydney at the same time and checked that you looked in the same direction when looking south?

It is offensive to suggest that people living south of the equator are confused about the directions they go when they think they are heading south.  Two roads heading south get closer together the farther south you go, just like the need for correction lines in the north.  As I mentioned many times, the FE model works great if you ignore the fact that there are other people in other countries that matter a little bit.  You can distort the map of the southern hemisphere and believe it, so long as you ignore that people live in the areas that are wildly distorted and they do not have to travel great distances to get to their neighbors.  They are not all bumbling idiots.

Don't put words in my mouth!  >:( I have never in my life called anyone a bumbling idiot, and I resent the implication. Besides we have members all over the world and since they and I are not distorted, clearly the other hemispheres are also not distorted.
And that's why no flat earth map works out.
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Offline Beorn

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Re: Ice wall - the empirical evidence
« Reply #22 on: March 21, 2018, 03:14:20 PM »
And that's why no flat earth map works out.

Because people are not distorted? That seems very strange evidence.
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Offline Science, bitch!

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Re: Ice wall - the empirical evidence
« Reply #23 on: March 21, 2018, 03:16:44 PM »
And that's why no flat earth map works out.

Because people are not distorted? That seems very strange evidence.

Their surroundings, obviously. On a globe, there's no distortion anywhere.
On any flat map, there is. You can't project a spherical surface onto a 2D map without significant distortion.
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Offline Beorn

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Re: Ice wall - the empirical evidence
« Reply #24 on: March 21, 2018, 03:18:51 PM »
And that's why no flat earth map works out.

Because people are not distorted? That seems very strange evidence.

Their surroundings, obviously. On a globe, there's no distortion anywhere.
On any flat map, there is. You can't project a spherical surface onto a 2D map without significant distortion.

 I never said there was any distortion. I asked if SpaceCadet has stood in both Chile and Sydney at the same time to see that he was looking the same way when looking south.
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Offline Science, bitch!

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Re: Ice wall - the empirical evidence
« Reply #25 on: March 21, 2018, 03:24:58 PM »
To quote the post you were answering to:


Have you stood in both Chile and Sydney at the same time and checked that you looked in the same direction when looking south?

It is offensive to suggest that people living south of the equator are confused about the directions they go when they think they are heading south.  Two roads heading south get closer together the farther south you go, just like the need for correction lines in the north.  As I mentioned many times, the FE model works great if you ignore the fact that there are other people in other countries that matter a little bit.  You can distort the map of the southern hemisphere and believe it, so long as you ignore that people live in the areas that are wildly distorted and they do not have to travel great distances to get to their neighbors.  They are not all bumbling idiots.

If earth was flat, it would be easy to just make a flat map of it. Without any distortion. Yet it isn't.

The other way round, if earth wasn't spheroid, you could not make a globe that represents all distances, angles and areas accurately without distortion. Yet you can.

Now guess why.
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Ice wall - the empirical evidence
« Reply #26 on: March 21, 2018, 05:21:59 PM »
Yet you can.

Any evidence of that? Have you measured the distances between all points on earth?

Re: Ice wall - the empirical evidence
« Reply #27 on: March 21, 2018, 05:40:26 PM »
Yet you can.

Any evidence of that? Have you measured the distances between all points on earth?
You don't need to do it personally when there is enough corroborating information. Comparisons of any published intercontinental flight times adhere the distances shown on the globe, weather patterns and forecasts relative to different locations, recorded relative position of the sun in the sky throughout the day from any location, predictable location of the stars at any point in time, fuel calculations used by airlines, navigation of international shipping, journey times for people who go on cruises across the Atlantic or Pacific. All these things perfectly align with the relative distances of locations on the globe. None of them align with any possible FE projections or visualization or whatever excuse for a map is being used. For all the enthusiasm you have for the dimensions of the Earth you show a surprising lack of interest in the geography of it.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Ice wall - the empirical evidence
« Reply #28 on: March 21, 2018, 06:08:03 PM »
Yet you can.

Any evidence of that? Have you measured the distances between all points on earth?
You don't need to do it personally when there is enough corroborating information. Comparisons of any published intercontinental flight times adhere the distances shown on the globe, weather patterns and forecasts relative to different locations, recorded relative position of the sun in the sky throughout the day from any location, predictable location of the stars at any point in time, fuel calculations used by airlines, navigation of international shipping, journey times for people who go on cruises across the Atlantic or Pacific. All these things perfectly align with the relative distances of locations on the globe. None of them align with any possible FE projections or visualization or whatever excuse for a map is being used. For all the enthusiasm you have for the dimensions of the Earth you show a surprising lack of interest in the geography of it.

Planes don't take all possible flight routes. Who is traveling between Australia and South America going the "long" way around the earth? No one is.

While I do not subscribe to the Monopole model, using flights as an argument is not conclusive.

Re: Ice wall - the empirical evidence
« Reply #29 on: March 21, 2018, 06:12:43 PM »
Yet you can.

Any evidence of that? Have you measured the distances between all points on earth?
You don't need to do it personally when there is enough corroborating information. Comparisons of any published intercontinental flight times adhere the distances shown on the globe, weather patterns and forecasts relative to different locations, recorded relative position of the sun in the sky throughout the day from any location, predictable location of the stars at any point in time, fuel calculations used by airlines, navigation of international shipping, journey times for people who go on cruises across the Atlantic or Pacific. All these things perfectly align with the relative distances of locations on the globe. None of them align with any possible FE projections or visualization or whatever excuse for a map is being used. For all the enthusiasm you have for the dimensions of the Earth you show a surprising lack of interest in the geography of it.

Planes don't take all possible flight routes. Who is traveling between Australia and South America going the "long" way around the earth? No one is.

While I do not subscribe to the Monopole model, using flights as an argument is not conclusive.
I see - so you take the rest as conclusive then. Cool. Or don't you?
« Last Edit: March 21, 2018, 06:14:55 PM by pablozablo »

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Offline xenotolerance

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Re: Ice wall - the empirical evidence
« Reply #30 on: March 21, 2018, 06:45:34 PM »
Tom is claiming that flight arguments are not conclusive simply in denial that they actually are. Look up 3DGeek and Rounder's posts from a few months ago on the subject.

Incidentally, I just looked up flights between Santiago and Sydney. They exist. I'm not sure what Tom means by the long way around, but there isn't reference to a long way in any previous argument that I'm aware of. Strikes me as a potential strawman

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Offline Science, bitch!

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Re: Ice wall - the empirical evidence
« Reply #31 on: March 21, 2018, 07:00:53 PM »
Yet you can.

Any evidence of that? Have you measured the distances between all points on earth?
You don't need to do it personally when there is enough corroborating information. Comparisons of any published intercontinental flight times adhere the distances shown on the globe, weather patterns and forecasts relative to different locations, recorded relative position of the sun in the sky throughout the day from any location, predictable location of the stars at any point in time, fuel calculations used by airlines, navigation of international shipping, journey times for people who go on cruises across the Atlantic or Pacific. All these things perfectly align with the relative distances of locations on the globe. None of them align with any possible FE projections or visualization or whatever excuse for a map is being used. For all the enthusiasm you have for the dimensions of the Earth you show a surprising lack of interest in the geography of it.

Planes don't take all possible flight routes. Who is traveling between Australia and South America going the "long" way around the earth? No one is.

While I do not subscribe to the Monopole model, using flights as an argument is not conclusive.

Except people that are. Quantas nonstop Sydney to Santiago de Chile, Boeing 747, 12:35 hours.

So there's a pretty conclusive argument against the monopole map since that 747's not going supersonic.
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Ice wall - the empirical evidence
« Reply #32 on: March 21, 2018, 07:05:26 PM »
Except people that are. Quantas nonstop Sydney to Santiago de Chile, Boeing 747, 12:35 hours.

So there's a pretty conclusive argument against the monopole map since that 747's not going supersonic.

That might tell the monopole map creator (whoever that is) something about how to make his visualization. But what about the flight time going the other long way around the earth between those points?
« Last Edit: March 21, 2018, 07:16:27 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Science, bitch!

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Re: Ice wall - the empirical evidence
« Reply #33 on: March 21, 2018, 07:07:43 PM »
Except people that are. Quantas nonstop Sydney to Santiago de Chile, Boeing 747, 12:35 hours.

So there's a pretty conclusive argument against the monopole map since that 747's not going supersonic.

And what is the flight time going the "long" way around the earth?

What do you mean by "going the 'long' way around the earth"?
That would be around the earth on that flat monopole model, but on a globe that's the direct way.
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Ice wall - the empirical evidence
« Reply #34 on: March 21, 2018, 07:08:30 PM »
What do you mean by "going the 'long' way around the earth"?
That would be around the earth on that flat monopole model, but on a globe that's the direct way.

When you travel between Los Angeles and New York does the plane go over the continental US or the long way over China?

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Offline Science, bitch!

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Re: Ice wall - the empirical evidence
« Reply #35 on: March 21, 2018, 07:08:44 PM »
Continental US, I suppose? Will look it up.

EDIT: Well, obviously that's the way. Why should they go over china? That makes absolutely no sense on a globe, so on which flat earth model would it?
« Last Edit: March 21, 2018, 07:12:39 PM by Science, bitch! »
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Ice wall - the empirical evidence
« Reply #36 on: March 21, 2018, 07:14:28 PM »
Continental US, I suppose? Will look it up.

EDIT: Well, obviously that's the way. Why should they go over china? That makes absolutely no sense on a globe, so on which flat earth model would it?

The point is that it would make no sense for the planes to fly the "long way" around the earth between those two southern points. We only have data for that route.

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Offline Science, bitch!

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Re: Ice wall - the empirical evidence
« Reply #37 on: March 21, 2018, 07:16:00 PM »
Continental US, I suppose? Will look it up.

EDIT: Well, obviously that's the way. Why should they go over china? That makes absolutely no sense on a globe, so on which flat earth model would it?

The point is that it would make no sense for the planes to fly the "long way" around the earth between those two southern points. We only have data for that route.

I don't quite see what you're getting at. Please elaborate.
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Re: Ice wall - the empirical evidence
« Reply #38 on: March 21, 2018, 07:54:42 PM »
Continental US, I suppose? Will look it up.

EDIT: Well, obviously that's the way. Why should they go over china? That makes absolutely no sense on a globe, so on which flat earth model would it?

The point is that it would make no sense for the planes to fly the "long way" around the earth between those two southern points. We only have data for that route.
But we do have data for LA to China, and China to Europe, and Europe to New York, and New York to LA, and guess what the data for the long way round corroborates?.... I think Tom is making a great case for the globe.

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Offline xenotolerance

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Re: Ice wall - the empirical evidence
« Reply #39 on: March 21, 2018, 08:19:34 PM »
This is a terrible argument from Tom. We do have data for going 'the long way around,' and you get it by connecting flights together like pz says. In another current case, Santiago to Cape Town to Sydney. It doesn't help his cause at all; again, the work has been done and it is a complete debunk of flat Earth belief. He's starting you all on a wild goose chase to retread an argument he already lost. Don't fall for it.