[Buran]

I have worked in extremely remote areas using GPS to find my way. No towers of any kind, even cell phone towers, exist in the areas I was in. The GPS system that I used showed me the locations of the satellites and even the names of the satellites that were tracking me. I could find any point from a map, plug the coordinates into the GPS, and get to within 1 meter of it.

If the earth really is flat, then my GPS system must have been programmed to fool me, since knowledge of satellite locations was important to the use of this system.

Is it reasonable to believe that this conspiracy goes so deep as to affect a device I only needed when I was moving from one location to the next?

[Tom Bishop]

A number of possibilities could be happening. Youtube and the rest of the internet discuss much more about the space hoax than we do. As a curious mind I encourage you to delve into the matter.

[inquisitive]

A number of possibilities could be happening. Youtube and the rest of the internet discuss much more about the space hoax than we do. As a curious mind I encourage you to delve into the matter.

GPS is well documented and proven.  There are a number of systems in, or soon to be in, operation and it is used by millions of people and systems for navigation and timing.

Tom is unable to provide any details that prove otherwise.  Unless he provides some links and proof.

[JohnAdams1145]

Tom,

Your explanation of eLORAN as a substitute for GPS does not work as GPS receivers are designed to receive signals from the sky, time them, and trilaterate. This is confirmed by the fact that there is a working open-source project that implements the software side (calculation) of the receiver http://gnss-sdr.org/. You literally cannot assert that GPS works by any other way if the calculations (1) work and (2) assume that the satellites are in particular orbits. Note that it's very hard for the GPS satellites to know where the receiver is, since it's the receiver that does the calculations. I'd suggest you, as an "intellectually curious" one, actually look up how GPS works. It's a really long story.

[Buran]

Thanks Tom i appreciate the reply. I will look into it and reply after I have a better understanding of the hoax.

To everyone else, I understand how GPS works in a round earth.If I wanted a better explanation for that topic I would have just asked google. I want some insight into the flat earth mode of thought.

[juner]

To everyone else, I understand how GPS works in a round earth.If I wanted a better explanation for that topic I would have just asked google. I want some insight into the flat earth mode of thought.

This is an excellent approach to take. I hope you enjoy your stay.

[Trolltrolls]

Thanks Tom i appreciate the reply. I will look into it and reply after I have a better understanding of the hoax.

To everyone else, I understand how GPS works in a round earth.If I wanted a better explanation for that topic I would have just asked google. I want some insight into the flat earth mode of thought.

I'm sure you got lots of insight from someone who essentially suggested 'google it'.

[AATW]

A number of possibilities could be happening. Youtube and the rest of the internet discuss much more about the space hoax than we do. As a curious mind I encourage you to delve into the matter.

It's interesting that you discount the possibility that the earth is actually spherical and satellites are orbiting it and GPS works exactly as all the people who know what they're talking about say it does.

When I was young we didn't have satellite TV or GPS, we had 3 TV channels (much excitement when the 4th started in the UK when I was 8 ) and maps. People weren't marching in the street because of the lack of entertainment or devices which could tell you exactly where you are at any point. How exactly do you think satellite TV came about? Do you think the satellite TV people called NASA and conversation went something like:

NASA: "Hello?"
Sky: "Hello, is that NASA?"
NASA: "Yes"
Sky: "I understand you can put things into orbit?"
NASA: "Er...yes. Yes we can. Piece of cake *stifles giggle*"
Sky: "Great! 'Cos we have this idea for beaming TV into people's homes from a satellite."
NASA: "Right..."
Sky: "So...can you help us with that? We just need a few satellites putting up to beam signals which people will receive via aerials attached to their houses"
NASA: "Umm...we're a bit busy right now..."
Sky: "We're willing to pay Shouldn't be too difficult for you clever chaps, right?"
NASA: "Er...we'll have to get back to you"

And presumably after the phonecall a somewhat panicked conversation took place internally in NASA about how they're going to fake TV signals from "space". As I said in another thread, my TV stopped working when my neighbour put some scaffolding up and blocked the signal. So it IS pointing at something. What do you think that is?

Same with GPS. It demonstrably works. It's crazy what mental backflips you do to try and explain how it can without satellites.

Meanwhile you blindly accept Rowbotham's "proofs" which generally amount to little more than him stating something and then claiming that it is proven because it matches his own observations. Case closed! As I will keep reminding you, we're talking about a man who claimed it was "proven" that the moon is translucent. There is a school of thought which says that this should cast some suspicion on his other "proofs"...

[Buran]

So I did some digging and found a lot of different explanations (I even read 5 pages of jman trying to prove radar is the same as gps). There doesn't seem to be any consensus or hard evidence to support these positions, which I can accept considering most of us here aren't in a position to be conducting experiments to prove one way or the other.

But none of the FE models really work for the situation I posted above.

So, getting away from exact models of GPS, is there any proof of a hoax? Not scientific evidence, but documented evidence that the governent and private companies are purposely misleading us to believe GPS uses satellites instead of other methods? Are the satellites that I saw on my device just made up?

It seems to me that using the zetetic method and looking at GPS as a stand alone issue, I don't see the reason why GPS doesn't work in the way described by the manufacturers of these devices. Some additional inight would be appreciated.

[juner]

I'm sure you got lots of insight from someone who essentially suggested 'google it'.

Refrain from low-content posting in the upper fora. Warned.

[JohnAdams1145]

There is conclusive proof that GPS works the way the manufacturers say it works. There's an open source software suite http://gnss-sdr.org/ that helps with implementing GPS trilateration (processing the various signals). The code also works. Therefore it stands to say that we can actually find the correct signals by pointing at certain places in the sky. It's actually a very complicated process, complicated by the fact there are still legacy signals as well as newer signals being transmitted. Sometimes people just download the almanac over the internet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Positioning_System

Whoever thinks it's radar is clearly clueless about how radar works; it shows a lack of even the most basic research skills. I wouldn't consider him/her to be a reputable source for anything, including how much oranges cost at the local supermarket.

EDIT:

This is not meant to start a debate about whether the Earth is flat or not. I just want FE people to flesh their beliefs out a bit more, rather than just saying "there's a lot of explanations on YouTube" or "it's <insert X navigation system here>";

[Buran]

There is conclusive proof that GPS works the way the manufacturers say it works. There's an open source software suite http://gnss-sdr.org/ that helps with implementing GPS trilateration (processing the various signals). The code also works. Therefore it stands to say that we can actually find the correct signals by pointing at certain places in the sky. It's actually a very complicated process, complicated by the fact there are still legacy signals as well as newer signals being transmitted. Sometimes people just download the almanac over the internet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Positioning_System

Whoever thinks it's radar is clearly clueless about how radar works; it shows a lack of even the most basic research skills. I wouldn't consider him/her to be a reputable source for anything, including how much oranges cost at the local supermarket.

I already stated I am looking for the flat earth perspective. Please stay on topic.

[OrigamiBoy]

You can make all the excuses you want to debunk GPS but in no way can you justify satellite phones without satellites. Sailers commonly use these far out in the middle of the Pacific and Atlantic oceans where eLORAN would not even reach, and even if it did it wouldn't matter since eLORAN is one way, and the eLORAN towers don't have receivers. Please note that one of the biggest satellites that manage most of the calls is called the Iridium. Iridium is NOT owned by NASA and is owned by a private company called SpaceX. You cannot just say satellite phones don't work because they do. Read the reviews on Amazon, most of them are good. If they did not work there would be great outrage and SpaceX would likely get sued.

[inquisitive]

A number of possibilities could be happening. Youtube and the rest of the internet discuss much more about the space hoax than we do. As a curious mind I encourage you to delve into the matter.

Low content posting!

Please describe your tested opinion.  This is not about the 'space hoax', it's about how a system used by millions every day works virtually everywhere.

[juner]

A number of possibilities could be happening. Youtube and the rest of the internet discuss much more about the space hoax than we do. As a curious mind I encourage you to delve into the matter.

Low content posting

You aren't a moderator. If you have an issue with a post, there is the report button. Member moderating ("membrating") is considered low-content. Warned.

[Buran]

You can make all the excuses you want to debunk GPS but in no way can you justify satellite phones without satellites. Sailers commonly use these far out in the middle of the Pacific and Atlantic oceans where eLORAN would not even reach, and even if it did it wouldn't matter since eLORAN is one way, and the eLORAN towers don't have receivers. Please note that one of the biggest satellites that manage most of the calls is called the Iridium. Iridium is NOT owned by NASA and is owned by a private company called SpaceX. You cannot just say satellite phones don't work because they do. Read the reviews on Amazon, most of them are good. If they did not work there would be great outrage and SpaceX would likely get sued.

SpaceX does not own Iridium. SpaceX only launches the satellites. Iridium is its own company and manages the network.

[J-Man]

Over the horizon radar is known to work upwards of 4,000 miles. Think about that. There is your satellite covering the entire flat earth and it's skies with a few locations. People need to wake up to the fraud of the rotating ball.

[Buran]

Over the horizon radar is known to work upwards of 4,000 miles. Think about that. There is your satellite covering the entire flat earth and it's skies with a few locations. People need to wake up to the fraud of the rotating ball.

It's already been stated that radar is not the same as GPS. But assuming it is the same, or could be used in the same manner, do you have any documentation proving that GPS manufacturers and programmer are deliberately fooling us? Have you looked at the code to show that the calculations that are actually used are different from what is commonly accepted?

I would appreciate a response, tho it seems hard to get those from the believers on this forum.

[HorstFue]

Over the horizon radar is known to work upwards of 4,000 miles. Think about that. There is your satellite covering the entire flat earth and it's skies with a few locations.

Sorry, You forgot to mention, that the spacial resolution of this OTH radar is very, very limited. You never get an accuracy, that comes in any way near to GPS resolution.

[JohnAdams1145]

Over the horizon radar is known to work upwards of 4,000 miles. Think about that. There is your satellite covering the entire flat earth and it's skies with a few locations.

Sorry, You forgot to mention, that the spacial resolution of this OTH radar is very, very limited. You never get an accuracy, that comes in any way near to GPS resolution.

I think you've hit it exactly. The spatial resolution of OTH radar is on the order of kilometers.

Of course, there's a much larger problem than that. How would a radar separate something as small as a non-moving mobile phone from all of the ground clutter? How would this work in a forest, where the trees would reflect much more than a mobile phone? As I said before, J-Man clearly doesn't understand how radar separates clutter from actual targets or even how radar works on a most fundamental level.