[markjo]

Maybe Parsifal and Pizaaplanet can put this matter to rest once and for all by stopping by the University of Edinburgh to check Rowbotham's academic credentials during their upcoming road trip this coming fall.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

Now, that would be interesting, since I doubt they'd find any more than I did.

[juner]

Now, that would be interesting, since I doubt they'd find any more than I did.

Except that you didn't actually find anything, nor did you attempt to.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

Yes, in fact, I did. But, believe what you wish. That is your issue. In fact, its been done twice now. Someone else here did it as well, as I do recall.

[juner]

Yes, in fact, I did. But, believe what you wish. That is your issue. In fact, its been done twice now. Someone else here did it as well, as I do recall.

Belief is irrelevant in this particular matter. I do not have to prove a negative. The burden of proof is on you to provide evidence that you did the research you claim to have done.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

No, I don't. In order to do that, I would have to go back a year to find e-mails in one of four of my e-mail accounts, emails that I may not even have kept. I don't give a shit if you don't believe me. The fact is that your beloved hero was a liar and a thief, who bilked simple people of their money and convinced them of something that wasn't true.

If you want to prove me wrong, you show me something more than a newspaper article. Until you do that, let's face it. He was a fraud.

[Mostlyharmless]

Now, that would be interesting, since I doubt they'd find any more than I did.

Except that you didn't actually find anything, nor did you attempt to.

He did find something: nothing. I.e.nothing. He found that there were no records.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

Now, that would be interesting, since I doubt they'd find any more than I did.

Except that you didn't actually find anything, nor did you attempt to.

He did find something: nothing. I.e.nothing. He found that there were no records.

BINGO.

[juner]

He made a claim that he did this research, yet he cannot produce anything to prove that. I am calling BS, sorry.

[Rushy]

Now, that would be interesting, since I doubt they'd find any more than I did.

Except that you didn't actually find anything, nor did you attempt to.

He did find something: nothing. I.e.nothing. He found that there were no records.

It would be pretty simple to post where he looked and how he looked, so that we could also do the same and verify he actually checked. Instead all we have is him saying he checked it, which may or may not be entirely made up.

[Rama Set]

It would be pretty simple to post where he looked and how he looked, so that we could also do the same and verify he actually checked. Instead all we have is him saying he checked it, which may or may not be entirely made up.

I'm going to help you out Yaakov:

-Where did you look for his university qualifications and/or record of his claimed degrees?
-Where did you look for his emigration records?

Depending on the quality of your sources, answering those questions could go a long way to supporting your position.

A. The University of Edinburgh matriculation records and graduation records, via e-mail communications with their registrar.

B. Review of applications to the British Government for emigration permission for one Samuel Birley, and Samuel Birley Rowbotham, and Samuel Rowbotham, during the years he was NOT parading the country or writing books. I was not certain of when he was on the commune, so I backdated it a bit as well. This was done through the Government of the UK via e-mail.

The Government actually required payment of small fees, but it was worth it.

[Rushy]

That isn't where or how. That's a vague statement that could easily be manufactured. I could say I've been to Mars and checked to see if alien life was there. You would apparently have to believe me since you're so willing to just take people's word for it.

He said he used email. Where is it? What address was used? Who did he correspond with? He hasn't given any real details.

[Rama Set]

That isn't where or how. That's a vague statement that could easily be manufactured. I could say I've been to Mars and checked to see if alien life was there. You would apparently have to believe me since you're so willing to just take people's word for it.

He said he used email. Where is it? What address was used? Who did he correspond with? He hasn't given any real details.

You asked where he looked, the answer was: U of E graduation records and matriculation records via the office of the registrar for the first case; and review of the emigration requests for a relevant time period (that needs a bit more clarification) via the UK government.  You also asked how, and in both cases, the answer is email.

Of course the statements could be manufactured, but then so could something more complex, so what?  The whole point of you asking was so that someone could follow the same avenue of investigation.

I also never said I believe him. 

[Rushy]

You asked where he looked, the answer was: U of E graduation records and matriculation records via the office of the registrar for the first case; and review of the emigration requests for a relevant time period (that needs a bit more clarification) via the UK government.  You also asked how, and in both cases, the answer is email.

Of course the statements could be manufactured, but then so could something more complex, so what?  The whole point of you asking was so that someone could follow the same avenue of investigation.

I also never said I believe him.

I guess we'll just have to disagree on what qualifies as 'where and how'. Regardless, Yaakov's evidence is lacking. I could simply state the polar opposite: "I checked with them via email a year ago and they said it was there" and leave it at that. The debate would now be at a standstill because we both have the same amount of evidence.

[Rama Set]

You asked where he looked, the answer was: U of E graduation records and matriculation records via the office of the registrar for the first case; and review of the emigration requests for a relevant time period (that needs a bit more clarification) via the UK government.  You also asked how, and in both cases, the answer is email.

Of course the statements could be manufactured, but then so could something more complex, so what?  The whole point of you asking was so that someone could follow the same avenue of investigation.

I also never said I believe him.

I guess we'll just have to disagree on what qualifies as 'where and how'. Regardless, Yaakov's evidence is lacking. I could simply state the polar opposite: "I checked with them via email a year ago and they said it was there" and leave it at that. The debate would now be at a standstill because we both have the same amount of evidence.

Yeah, and it is weird that Yaakov can go through all of that, but then does not want to use the search function on his email.  I still think a visit to U of E is in order for the FES Scotland trip.  It would be good to either get a repro of Rowbotham's graduation records, or know for sure that he never did graduate.

[Rushy]

Yeah, and it is weird that Yaakov can go through all of that, but then does not want to use the search function on his email.  I still think a visit to U of E is in order for the FES Scotland trip.  It would be good to either get a repro of Rowbotham's graduation records, or know for sure that he never did graduate.

That's a good idea, actually. Edinburgh might be on their roadmap.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

just have a minute. The e-mail of the registrar is a matter of public record. I don't recall what it is. The emigration offices can also be found. I have done a partial review of my e-mail accounts, and have not found those e-mails. As I indicated, I don't know which of four accounts they were in, or for that matter, if I even kept them. I have reasons for keeping four accounts, and for not holding e-mail beyond six months, and this was over a year ago.

Ultimately, whether you believe me or not is beside the point. You are free to check yourselves. I am certain you will find the same data (or rather, the lack of it) that I did. So, fire ahead. Go for it. I look forward to hearing your results.

[juner]

just have a minute. The e-mail of the registrar is a matter of public record. I don't recall what it is. The emigration offices can also be found. I have done a partial review of my e-mail accounts, and have not found those e-mails. As I indicated, I don't know which of four accounts they were in, or for that matter, if I even kept them. I have reasons for keeping four accounts, and for not holding e-mail beyond six months, and this was over a year ago.

Ultimately, whether you believe me or not is beside the point. You are free to check yourselves. I am certain you will find the same data (or rather, the lack of it) that I did. So, fire ahead. Go for it. I look forward to hearing your results.

So, you create a new thread making wild, baseless claims. Then, you insist that you personally validated the claims you made but cannot provide evidence to prove that. Finally, you attempt to shift the burden to everyone else by saying "check for yourselves, I don't care if you believe me." Sorry, but you have failed here. Following your own logic in the OP:

But since he lied on both his qualifications, what is to stop him from lying on every other thing he said?

Does this mean it is safe to assume you lie about everything else you claim?

[markjo]

So, you create a new thread making wild, baseless claims.

If you don't believe him, then why don't you just check out this thread from the other site for the 24 pages of academic credential search drama?
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=61409.0#.VTf4DtLBzGc

[juner]

So, you create a new thread making wild, baseless claims.

If you don't believe him, then why don't you just check out this thread from the other site for the 24 pages of academic credential search drama?
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=61409.0#.VTf4DtLBzGc

I read the first page and it's much of the same I'm seeing in this thread. Was there something you wanted to point to, or an original thought you wanted to add?