[Yaakov ben Avraham]

An interesting observation I've made is praying according to the rites of all major Faiths. In the Church of England, the principle Daily Prayers are Morning & Evening Prayer. Many also use Noon & Night Prayer. Among Muslims, the custom is to pray 5 times a day. We Jews pray 3 times a day. On Sabbath a 4th is added, & on Yom Kippur a 5th is added. In the C of E, on Sunday, Divine Service is added, & also is during the week in some churches. The interesting thing about all this is that all 3 traditions feel the need to mark time throughout the day. Christian services are, of course, noticeably derived from the much older synagogue services, particularly as re: the singing of the Psalter. Muslim prayers are independent of the synagogue in structure. I should be curious to know if the non-Abrahamic faiths mark time in this way. Any thoughts on this?

[spank86]

I think maybe you should all get together and give god a day off once in a while.

I also think too many people use prayers as a request not a thankyou.


Lastly I think the reason being is that the inventors of these religions were clever enough to know that a big bad ass god is only a good control of people if its in the front of people's minds and this is a good way to keep it there.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

Re: your 2nd point, the prayer books tend to agree. I think it is assumed that people's informal prayer is going to mostly be 'O shit, help!'. So, the formal prayers are mostly prayers of thanksgiving & praise.

[Lemon]

I don't think it has any significant relevance, to be honest. They pray at different times of the day because different times of the day, don't you think?

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

Lemon, I think there's more to it. Go back to an age before wristwatches & inexpensive timepieces. For many people, the only way to keep time was through direct observation of a sundial, or some similar method. & in a world of MUCH greater religiosity, people would want to mark the day w/ prayer. This was also a less secure, more fearful age. People tend to pray more regularly when when they're scared shitless on a regular basis, don't you think?

[Lemon]

How exactly does what you just said go against what I said? Sure, you can pray more when scared out of your wits all the damn time, but that doesn't mean you'll necessarily pray at any specific time. I think they pray at those times simply because. Good points of progress throughout the day.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

Ok. I could accept that as an axiom for the Abrahamic traditions, but what about the East? I don't even know if they have the practice.

[Tintagel]

I know basically nothing of any of this, as I've never been associated with any faith that had a rigid schedule of prayer.  I was raised baptist (which is honestly just racism and homophobia with a bible), so I've always been a few drinks shy of atheism at the core.

I am interested, though, as I find these sorts of ritualistic faiths fascinating.

[jroa]

Not to derail this thread, but I find it really odd that all three faiths believe that God is so vein, he requires them to praise him at regular intervals throughout the day.  After a while, I would think that all this praise just becomes mechanical and does not really mean anything.  Sort of like when you tell the same person you love him/her several times per day for 20 years.  At first, you might really mean it.  Eventually, you do it because you feel obliged to do so, even if you do not feel as passionate about saying it anymore. 

[Tau]

Yas, God is vein.

Ok. I could accept that as an axiom for the Abrahamic traditions, but what about the East? I don't even know if they have the practice.

Eastern religions are usually more about the individual than the gods themselves. For example, in Hinduism devotion to the gods is just another way of achieving true happiness, and there are other paths to Nirvana that have little if anything to do with the gods. You don't have to jump through hoops to prove your devotion to your gods of choice, because they don't give a shit and you're mostly doing it for your own sake.

[rooster]

Yas, God is vein.

Ok. I could accept that as an axiom for the Abrahamic traditions, but what about the East? I don't even know if they have the practice.

Eastern religions are usually more about the individual than the gods themselves. For example, in Hinduism devotion to the gods is just another way of achieving true happiness, and there are other paths to Nirvana that have little if anything to do with the gods. You don't have to jump through hoops to prove your devotion to your gods of choice, because they don't give a shit and you're mostly doing it for your own sake.

Everyday I'm believing less and less that Yaakov is a historian. To get a BA in history you have to take world, ancient, European, and American history courses so he should have basic knowledge of most cultures/histories.

Like Tausami said Eastern religions are more about the individual than paying homage to a god. Buddhism, for example, is about achieving Nirvana through meditation and releasing yourself from all physical and earthly desires. Buddha himself is not even a god as we know them. If you consider meditation prayer than they tend to do that in the morning and at night and for as long as they wish.

Other Eastern religions allow for small shrines for a house/family protector. Since it's not monotheistic they pray to whichever god that's relevant to their situation but there's no strict rule that I'm aware of.
In ancient Chinese religions your ancestors would be your gods/protectors and that is who you would have prayed to with state "religions" being more social/political institutions like Confucianism.

[Yaakov ben Avraham]

I was aware of what you explained regarding Eastern religion. What I was NOT aware of was whether or not they had a practice of praying three or four times daily. Or meditating three or four times daily, for that matter. Now that I think about it, it is only logical that a religion that doesn't have emphasis on one deity would probably not have much interest in stable prayer as such. And meditation can be done any time or any where.

[rooster]

Well meditation for monks can last about 2 hours so I doubt they do that 4x a day unless they're trying to skip out on chores.

[Thork]

We Jews pray 3 times a day. On Sabbath a 4th is added, & on Yom Kippur a 5th is added.

Since you were a child you have been conditioned to take time out of your day to contemplate someone's vision of how you should live 3times a day. Prayer is reinforcement of political ideals.

If you were to start think how much better iPhones are than other phones 3 times a day from the age of 4, and gave thanks and praise to Apple, would you buy a Samsung? Prayer is brain washing for the masses. Hymns, prayers, readings. It's repetitive reinforcement of religious ideals. Massively effective. Incredibly powerful. Your religious leaders are literally in your head all day every day.

On a slightly unrelated note, do you really think a supreme deity needs you to thank it 3 times a day everyday? That's a pretty insecure God.
Leave God alone! 
Bloody god-botherers.

[Alchemist21]

The Bible actually quotes God as calling Himself jealous, so yeah, there's an insecurity with the Fundamental idea of God.

[Tau]

The Bible actually quotes God as calling Himself jealous, so yeah, there's an insecurity with the Fundamental idea of God.

Which doesn't really follow the idea of a perfect God, does it? Isn't jealousy supposed to be a sin?

[Alchemist21]

In the Bible a lot of acts listed as sins are done by God himself at some point.  I believe in the Biblical God, but I think the people who wrote the Bible made up a lot of stuff about him.

[Tintagel]

In the Bible a lot of acts listed as sins are done by God himself at some point.  I believe in the Biblical God, but I think the people who wrote the Bible made up a lot of stuff about him.

This seems contradictory.  You say you believe in a god as depicted in the bible, but admit that everything written about said god was written by humans, and is therefore unreliable.  Does this not also call the very existence of that god into question?  This is the hurdle I was never able to get over with religion.

It's like if I wrote a guide for hunting a creature no one had ever actually seen (and may not even exist), and still scores of hunters buy the book and take to the wilderness in search of the beast.

Now that I read that again, that could probably actually happen.  BRB, writing a book on hunting the rare midwestern slitherbeast.

[Alchemist21]

I just believe he exists.  I believe he's the only God, and that a personal element can still exist, but as I said before, divine intervention is probably rare in life.

It's like Beowulf or Gilgamesh. They probably did exist as great kings, but people made up stories about them when writing their legends.  Just because the stories are faked doesn't mean the people they were written about never existed.

[Tintagel]

I just believe he exists.  I believe he's the only God, and that a personal element can still exist, but as I said before, divine intervention is probably rare in life.

It's like Beowulf or Gilgamesh. They probably did exist as great kings, but people made up stories about them when writing their legends.  Just because the stories are faked doesn't mean the people they were written about never existed.

It's possible, and Arthur as well, but the fiction about them is arguably so far removed from reality that it's impossible to ascribe any accuracy to them at all, when it comes to describing the actual person they're about.

I believe that something moved first, but I don't believe the mover is worthy of the title "god". 

That said, we can always find common ground.  For instance, both you and I quoted Blanko in our sigs.  I'm pretty sure that discredits both of our opinions.