Saddam Hussein

Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #2100 on: May 19, 2015, 04:31:17 AM »
No TES, you aren't cooler than Westeros or Middle-Earth. Both of those respective universes are filled with mysteries that differ depending on the reader, in fact Tolkien is quite famous for leaving many mysteries in his works. For example, the R+L=J theory in Westeros and Tom Bombadil in Middle-Earth.

I don't agree.  Most of the lore that Tolkien created is provided to the reader via omniscient narration (the appendices of LotR come to mind) or exposition by extremely reliable and knowledgeable characters, like Gandalf or Elrond.  There are a few Tom Bombadil-like elements in there, but they're very much the exception, not the rule.  ASOIAF does make use of unreliable narrators, but I don't think it embraces ambiguity as an end in itself (rather than being purely temporary) to the extent that TES does.  Like, the question of Jon's parentage is hardly an inherently unknowable aspect of the lore, it's just an as of yet unresolved plot detail.

Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #2101 on: May 19, 2015, 04:56:24 AM »
No TES, you aren't cooler than Westeros or Middle-Earth. Both of those respective universes are filled with mysteries that differ depending on the reader, in fact Tolkien is quite famous for leaving many mysteries in his works. For example, the R+L=J theory in Westeros and Tom Bombadil in Middle-Earth.

I don't agree.  Most of the lore that Tolkien created is provided to the reader via omniscient narration (the appendices of LotR come to mind) or exposition by extremely reliable and knowledgeable characters, like Gandalf or Elrond.  There are a few Tom Bombadil-like elements in there, but they're very much the exception, not the rule.  ASOIAF does make use of unreliable narrators, but I don't think it embraces ambiguity as an end in itself (rather than being purely temporary) to the extent that TES does.  Like, the question of Jon's parentage is hardly an inherently unknowable aspect of the lore, it's just an as of yet unresolved plot detail.

It is now, given everyone that knew the truth (besides 1 person that hasn't appeared in the story at all) is dead.

Saddam Hussein

Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #2102 on: May 19, 2015, 06:24:06 PM »
You don't know that.  There could easily be a witness or confidant to what happened that we simply haven't been introduced to yet, or there might even be documentation or other physical evidence explaining the mystery.  And if some of the "complementary" fan theories to R+L=J turn out to be true as well (like Jon becoming one of the dragon's heads), Jon will have to discover his true parentage one way or another.  So I don't think it's really comparable to ambiguous concepts from TES like Dragon Breaks, CHIM, the Towers, etc.

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Offline Pongo

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Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #2103 on: May 19, 2015, 08:08:25 PM »
Bran is going to discover that R+L=J is the truth by worg'ing into a godswood tree.  You heard it here first.

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Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #2104 on: June 05, 2015, 08:16:47 AM »
I just came across this open-source implementation of Morrowind:

https://openmw.org/en/

It still requires the original game data files, but it should allow me to play Morrowind without the use of Wine. I'll give it a spin at some point over the weekend and report back with my experience.
when you try to mock anyone while also running the flat earth society. Lol

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Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #2105 on: July 09, 2015, 03:15:08 AM »
Nice report!
Your mom is when your mom and you arent your mom.

Saddam Hussein

Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #2106 on: July 13, 2015, 02:48:05 AM »
I have completed Tribunal, the first expansion for Morrowind.  Ostensibly set chronologically after the events of the main quest (despite the fact that for some reason it begins automatically once it's installed, forcing many a new player to have to fight a Dark Brotherhood assassin far more powerful than they are), the plot is intended to tie up the loose ends of the game's story, particularly regarding the eponymous Tribunal.  How does it hold up?  Not very well, unfortunately.  The story is the biggest problem, and that's a real surprise, given that it's still Morrowind.  It sends you on a series of quests where the only way to advance the story is to idiotically work for some very obvious antagonists and blindly complete every awful task they set you, such as fetching them dangerous, cursed artifacts, coercing honest journalists, and most outrageously of all, using some Dwemer machinery to bombard Mournhold with a series of ash storms so that Almalexia can fool the population into thinking that she still has her divine power.  It's ridiculous.

The lore also disappoints, particularly with how the remaining two members of the Tribunal are represented.  Almalexia has none of the gravitas or eloquence of Vivec and Dagoth Ur; instead, she just comes across as vain, petty, and selfish, more like a spoiled diva than a goddess.  And poor Sotha Sil turns out to have been long since dead, preventing us from learning anything from the man (mer) himself.  However, I do really like the Clockwork City he built that you get to visit.  It's a unique, fun dungeon with an intriguing sci-fi vibe that incorporates mechanical gears and hydraulics.  Oh yeah, and you get to meet the ghost of a Dwemer.  They're not fucking dwarves.

In short, pretty crappy.  Kirkbride once said that he wished he had stayed at Bethesda to work on Tribunal, so that he could have developed Almalexia and Sotha Sil as much as he did Vivec.  That would have been a nice start at improving this.

On the notion of Skyrim's homogeneous religious beliefs:

https://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/1zw5p0/femininity_in_tamrielic_faith_part_1_mara/cfy3lu8

Quote from: MKirkbride
Look at the thread on the official forums (forget where). TESV: Skyrim's religion and religious practices were gutted during development for a more standardized Imperial view*.

Some of the ideas remain, but it was once going to be as rich and complex as TESIII: Morrowind's.

EDIT: I'm being generous here.

And on the notion of dumbing the series down.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2015, 06:40:23 PM by Saddam Hussein »

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Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #2107 on: July 13, 2015, 06:00:05 AM »
sadaam
The Mastery.

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Offline Rushy

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Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #2108 on: July 13, 2015, 10:27:33 PM »
you get to meet the ghost of a Dwemer.  They're not fucking dwarves.

Well, that depends on the Dwemer. Certainly if a Dwemer decided to bang another Dwemer, they would indeed be fucking a dwarf.

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Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #2109 on: July 13, 2015, 10:34:18 PM »
you get to meet the ghost of a Dwemer.  They're not fucking dwarves.

Well, that depends on the Dwemer. Certainly if a Dwemer decided to bang another Dwemer, they would indeed be fucking a dwarf.

Your mom is when your mom and you arent your mom.

Saddam Hussein

Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #2110 on: September 07, 2015, 12:25:51 AM »
<Saddam> Anastas: We were going to see Shor in Skyrim
<Saddam> He'd have been sitting on his throne in Sovngarde
<Anastas> Were we
<Saddam> But one of the devs felt uncomfortable with depicting a god, so they didn't put him in
<Saddam> Even though Tsun is a god too
<Saddam> Dumb uncomfortable people ruining things for the rest of us
<Saddam> If he had been there, it would have lent much support for my theory about Lorkhan's "true" form being shaped by popular belief depending on the region
<Anastas> What the fuck
<Anastas> You see gods all the time in that series
<Saddam> Yes
<Anastas> I hate BGS
<Anastas> They are dead to me
<Saddam> I bet F4 won't even be that good
<Pongo> Fracking BSG.
<Saddam> Every TES game from now on should feature Michael Kirkbride doing all the writing and art and Todd Howard doing all the voice-acting
<Anastas> Agread agread agread

Source.

...

It looks like Redguard and Battlespire are finally available to be bought legally:

http://www.gog.com/game/the_elder_scrolls_adventures_redguard

http://www.gog.com/game/an_elder_scrolls_legend_battlespire

This version of Redguard is hopefully less buggy than the one I played, but I'm not sure if anyone here would really have the patience to see it through.  It's very well-written (the great Kirkbride worked on it), the lore is intriguing, and the dungeons are probably the most unique of the series, being heavily influenced by Tomb Raider, but there's no denying that both graphically and in terms of gameplay, it's aged terribly.  I haven't played Battlespire, but that game introduced many of the series' science-fantasy elements.  For example, the Battlespire is apparently a spaceship that travels through Oblivion.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2015, 03:51:23 AM by Saddam Hussein »

Saddam Hussein

Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #2111 on: September 08, 2015, 03:57:00 AM »
I've completed Bloodmoon!  It was pretty good overall.  Solstheim is a neat setting (and the use of fog feels much more natural there than it does on Vvardenfell), the quests are immersive and atmospheric, and the lore is unique and well-written.  And on that last point, I'm still mad about what Bethesda did with so much of the Nord lore before Skyrim came out.  The Nords of the Skaal tribe are quite a bit different to the Nords of Skyrim, certainly - they're monotheistic, and they seem to be heavily inspired by the Inuit - but there are still a few hints with the dialogue and some of the creatures that you face that indicate what the religion and culture of Skyrim should have been like.  I'm worried about what's going to happen with the next TES game now.  Will it be set in Hammerfell, for example, and have all the Redguards just talk about the same old Imperial gods and not Ruptga, Tu'whacca, the HoonDing, etc.?

Back to the add-on, I basically have two big criticisms with it.  One is how brutally difficult it is.  The enemies here are ball-crushingly tough, and there are a ton of them.  The final quest in particular is a nightmare to get through.  Also, much like Morrowind's main quest, it suffers from a lack of decent setup and context.  The option to go to Solstheim is available from the beginning of the game, but there's no good reason to go from an in-game perspective, as every single character whom you can mention Solstheim to (virtually everyone, with only a couple of exceptions) will just repeat the "terrible place" line.  And when you do get there and start completing quests, you're given very little information about what's going on and why the things you're doing are relevant to saving the day.  It's back to the old "This is very important but u donut even no it and I walnut tell u y."  The significance of the Bloodmoon Prophecy and what Hircine is up to aren't explained to you until the beginning of the very last quest.  I don't understand why they felt the need to keep all this a secret.  Sometimes withholding information from the player can add to the mystery or suspense, but they still need to be told enough about the overall storyline to understand what they're doing and what their overall goal is.

That's really only an issue with the main quest, though.  There are plenty of fun and interesting sidequests, and I really liked the new guild, the East Empire Company, where you help Raven Rock develop into a prosperous mining colony over time.

...

https://www.reddit.com/r/teslore/comments/3k1b96/on_the_nords_totemic_religion/

What a strange coincidence, given my recent rants about Skyrim's failure to give us a distinctive, unique religion.  They were indeed originally planning to give us a complex and interesting religion of the Nords, one that fit in with the existing lore while expanding it greatly.  We got the plain old Imperial pantheon instead.  It's sad to have been let down so badly.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2016, 05:50:25 AM by Saddam Hussein »

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Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #2112 on: September 08, 2015, 06:37:59 AM »
lore lore lore
The Mastery.

Saddam Hussein

Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #2113 on: September 22, 2015, 05:34:41 PM »
Their technology isn't so bad. They constructed automotons that we would have difficulty recreating with today's technology.

We could make a lot cooler shit if soul power was a thing. I'm pretty sure Hitler would have made Jew-powered missiles or something. Given what the Dwemer have available, their technology blows. Every single one of their ruins has open-air mechanically driven steam pipes. That's awful, just awful, and it's even worse knowing they are from the future.

Dwemer technology was built in such a way that it would almost never rust or break down, still be operational after thousands of years with literally no maintenance or oversight, and run perpetually despite there being no apparent source of energy producing the steam.  You don't think that's advanced?  And let's not forget the Numidium, an achievement so remarkable that its construction broke all the laws of physics and erased the Dwemer from the face of Nirn.  And speaking of which - I know I said I wouldn't bump old posts in this thread anymore, but this is relevant, and it needs to be addressed:

Funny, history isn't my specialty, but I can't quite recall Mesopotamians having steampunk architecture and technology.

They also didn't become part of the golden skin of a giant robot or create animunculi. As I said, the connection is superficial, but it's more significant than the connection to Dorfs.

Outside of Kirkbride's vicarious Vivec (Vivecarious?) fanfics, the idea that the Dwemer were literally transformed into Numidium's skin is probably his weakest OOG addition to lore.  It's far too superficial, too mundane, too physical a solution to a mystery that's supposed to be steeped in the strange metaphysics of the universe.  I don't think the mystery of exactly what happened to the Dwemer will ever be properly answered in the games, nor do I think it ever should be, but that theory is just too dumb to merit serious consideration.

After some further research, I've realized that I made a mistake here.  The idea of the Dwemer literally becoming Numidium's skin didn't come from Kirkbride, but instead, some random guy's very poorly-written fanfic.  I'll grant that the Skeleton Man interview he cites does hint at the idea as well, but the wording there is a lot more ambiguous and open to interpretation, and the specific character probably isn't the most reliable source.  But now I've seen a lot of lore-minded fans point to this as if it's the canonical truth and shout down anyone who points out that it's nothing more than one fan's speculation.  These two threads in particular are very annoying:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/615803-the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/65624436

http://www.gamesas.com/dwemer-t173141.html

I suspect that this might be some of the Morrowind fanbase elitism that I mentioned earlier in the thread.  Certain Morrowang fanboys see people who were only introduced to the Dwemer through Skyrim or TESO talking about them and how mysterious they were, and feel the need to assert how much more enlightened they are than them.  "Ha!  Look at these noobs, they don't even know what happened to the Dwemer!  It's so good to be one of the wise few who played through Morrowind (and read a few OOG speculations based on the game); we aren't troubled by these paltry concerns."  No.  Morrowind does provide a lot more information on the Dwemer than any other game, but that does not include the definitive answer to their ultimate fate.  If all the wise scholars the Nerevarine spoke to about the subject couldn't confidently say what happened - and they couldn't - then neither can you.

And most importantly of all, that fanfic I linked to makes for some painful reading.  A whiny, arrogant tone, several jumbled run-on sentences...it's just bad.  At least Kirkbride's form is competent, whatever one might think of his content.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2015, 09:10:55 PM by Saddam Hussein »

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Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #2114 on: September 22, 2015, 07:30:50 PM »
They became the foreskin of the Numidium.
The Mastery.

Saddam Hussein

Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #2115 on: September 27, 2015, 01:24:08 PM »


This is from the recent Imperial City add-on to TESO.  It's obviously a not-so-subtle poke at Kirkbride's theory of Ayrenn being KINMUNE.  lore lore lore

George

Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #2116 on: November 05, 2016, 02:20:57 AM »
I did it!  I beat Daggerfall!  Uh, what to say about it...well, for one thing, it's way too big.  It is kind of refreshing at first to see the world presented in a more realistic size than it has been in other TES games, but there's no actual benefit to it as far as the gameplay goes, and it wears out its welcome very soon.  Just shuffling around the layouts of these settlements doesn't make them unique enough to merit a visit.  They're all still full of the same people dispensing the same generic quests and offering the same generic thoughts when spoken to.  And speaking of generic locations repeated thousands of times, fuck these dungeons.  I don't think I can express strongly enough how horrendous they are.  Every single one of them is a labyrinthian nightmare full of dead ends, multiple floors, hidden switches, hidden teleporters, hidden doors, locked doors, hidden locked doors, and swarms of enemies attacking you at all times.  Literally every single one.  There are no easy dungeons, and there are no short ones.  They all turn on beast mode and demand that you spend several frustrating hours trying to navigate each one, unless you do what I eventually did and use cheats to skip to the quest-relevant locations once inside.

It's also full of bugs and glitches, even after twenty years and numerous official and unofficial patches.  Especially for quests involving those fucking dungeons.  My favorite bug was one that happened during an optional part of the main quest, where a villainous noble tries to have you murdered.  The quest ends when you confront one of the participants in the scheme, who sheepishly admits that he was paid to have you killed and gives you some money as a form of apology.  The kicker is that this accomplice was supposed to be a random generic NPC, similar to most quests in the game, but due to some issue or another, the NPC always ends up being the king of the fledgling Orc kingdom.  Basically, the last person in the world who'd be helping a corrupt Breton noble murder an enemy for petty cash.  Well done, Bethesda.  Anyway, make sure you save frequently if you play this, which also helps because of how easy it is to fuck up quests, including the main quest, due to human error.  If you accidentally sell a quest item, you can't buy it back, so you're completely fucked.  Most quests also have a pretty tough time limit, which is no saving.

On the notion of the story and lore.  I like how the setup avoids immediately placing the world in great peril and declaring you the only true hero of destiny who can put an end to the chaos.  Really doing that, too, not just pretending to the way Morrowind did.  The Lysandus subplot isn't all that interesting - lift the curse, avenge his death, blah blah generic fantasy - but the other subplot, with the letter and the Totem, was really cool.  The twist involving the letter's contents was genuinely surprising, but also made perfect narrative sense, and I especially loved the little touch of everyone sending you letters making their offers for the Totem.  It was also interesting to see the lore of the series prior to its revamping with Redguard and the PGE.  It's been improved dramatically since then, needless to say, although some of the books are pretty neat in their own right.  My favorite was King Edward, which unfortunately makes fuck-all sense in terms of lore, even simply as a work of historical fiction.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2016, 03:37:13 PM by George »

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Offline Fortuna

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Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #2117 on: November 07, 2016, 09:31:40 PM »
Should I get Skyrim Remastered? 

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Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #2118 on: November 08, 2016, 12:48:38 AM »
Not if you haven't already gotten it for free on steam. Also, it's not a remaster, it's a 64-bit port. The word "remastered" isn't even in the name.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2016, 12:50:42 AM by beardo »
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Re: The Elder Scrolls Online/General Elder Scrolls Discussion
« Reply #2119 on: November 08, 2016, 05:55:26 AM »
Well, it is a remaster. The game has been graphically overhauled.
Your mom is when your mom and you arent your mom.