Re: Trump
« Reply #140 on: January 11, 2017, 04:54:42 PM »
I'm making the point that his defense is "Russia said so" instead of something more definitive.
Explain to me: How would he dismiss these unverifiable claims, then?

Let's say I told you that Blanko has Parsifal's nudes and is just twitching to post them on FES. Blanko comes here and says "wtf, that's not true". Parsifal comes here and says "wtf, that's not true". What other defence can they put up? Surely it's down to me to prove my allegation?
I'm not saying there IS a defense nor that it's his to defend, but in your example, if Parsifal said "That's not True!  Just trust Blanko, whose is very untrustworthy." it just sounds weird.  I mean, you can't point to the person who is accused of having the compromising material and say "Trust what they say."

Just give up. Stop. Please. Please make it stop.

*

Offline SexWarrior

  • e
  • *
  • Posts: 5041
  • (◕‿◕✿)
    • View Profile
    • The Flat Earth Society
Re: Trump
« Reply #141 on: January 11, 2017, 04:55:08 PM »
I guess, but because fake news rules America right now, he has to go up there and say something. It's probably difficult to come up with a good answer to a question which cannot be answered, especially under pressure.
<Parsifal> Jesus Christ
<Parsifal> Do I really have to write 6000-word sentences just to remove all ambiguity from everything I'm saying?

Where live, do the offer adult reading classes?

Re: Trump
« Reply #142 on: January 11, 2017, 05:08:06 PM »
I guess, but because fake news rules America right now, he has to go up there and say something. It's probably difficult to come up with a good answer to a question which cannot be answered, especially under pressure.

Agreed.  But I think a simple "It's not true" is really kinda sufficient.  He really doesn't need to throw up poor arguments as defense.

But I'm watching his press conference and he has answered no questions.  He's doing his campaign stuff: talking about the topic but not answering the question.  His tax lawyer was the most informative part thus far. 

Re: Trump
« Reply #143 on: January 11, 2017, 05:16:19 PM »
Plus side:
Trump has confirmed, Russia hacked the DNC.  Which is what Wikileaks said is false.

*

Offline junker

  • Planar Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 4671
  • Boom
    • View Profile
Trump
« Reply #144 on: January 11, 2017, 05:20:05 PM »
Let's say I told you that Blanko has Parsifal's nudes and is just twitching to post them on FES. Blanko comes here and says "wtf, that's not true". Parsifal comes here and says "wtf, that's not true". What other defence can they put up? Surely it's down to me to prove my allegation?


We both know it's a well-known fact that Blanko has Parsifal nudes...
Please make sure to check out these resources to ensure that your time at tfes.org is enjoyable and productive.

1. The Rules

2. The FAQ

3. The Wiki

You're doing God's work, junker.

Re: Trump
« Reply #145 on: January 11, 2017, 05:59:02 PM »
Anyone else watch his press conference?

Re: Trump
« Reply #146 on: January 11, 2017, 08:33:55 PM »
It seems kind of ridiculous for Trump to claim that he has "NOTHING TO DO WITH RUSSIA - NO DEALS, NO LOANS, NO NOTHING!"

Like, what, are we expected to believe the Trump Organization had no dealings in Russia? No deals or loans that exist currently? This wasn't the case in 2008 at least:

Quote
Most notably, Trump’s son Donald Trump Jr. made that very claim at a real estate conference in New York in 2008, saying “Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets.” Donald Trump Jr. added, “we see a lot of money pouring in from Russia.”

and I very much doubt that in 8 years Russia went from a disproportionate source of money for the Trump organization to completely disassociated from it. It's not only a source of possible ethics violations, which could be avoided, but also further discredits his Tweets as being a good source of information, which isn't great when that's the primary way he talks to the American people.

*

Offline SexWarrior

  • e
  • *
  • Posts: 5041
  • (◕‿◕✿)
    • View Profile
    • The Flat Earth Society
Re: Trump
« Reply #147 on: January 11, 2017, 09:20:52 PM »
jesus christ what is it with people taking twitter seriously

It's fucking Twitter.
<Parsifal> Jesus Christ
<Parsifal> Do I really have to write 6000-word sentences just to remove all ambiguity from everything I'm saying?

Where live, do the offer adult reading classes?

Re: Trump
« Reply #148 on: January 11, 2017, 09:44:25 PM »
jesus christ what is it with people taking twitter seriously

It's fucking Twitter.
Why does the medium matter?
Angry Ranting version:
Yes, it's fucking twitter.  But so what?  The god damn president elect of the USA thinks its the best god damn way to deliver his message without the media fucking it up.

Plus, plenty of god damn serious officials tweet.  Get your head out of your biased ass and realize that it's not the fucking medium of communication that sucks, it's the shit posting you read.

Wow, that's angry ranting right there.


Here's the more polite version:
Twitter is a viable and well established means of communication on a global scale.  Despite it's early usage of spamming and shitposting, many high ranking officials, celebrities, and organizations use twitter to spread competent, important, and informative messages, data, or articles.  While it is more often used by the common masses to post things of little to no social value, one can not discredit all messages in a medium simply because of the majority that use it.  Especially when that medium is reasonably unbiased in the content it allows to be posted by users.

*

Offline SexWarrior

  • e
  • *
  • Posts: 5041
  • (◕‿◕✿)
    • View Profile
    • The Flat Earth Society
Re: Trump
« Reply #149 on: January 11, 2017, 09:52:14 PM »
Angry Ranting version
bro join me: https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=5658.0

Twitter is a viable and well established means of communication on a global scale.  Despite it's early usage of spamming and shitposting, many high ranking officials, celebrities, and organizations use twitter to spread competent, important, and informative messages, data, or articles.
Taking Trump's Twitter ramblings as official statements from the campaign is nuts. He's trolling the shit out of everyone, and people giving it legitimacy means he can use it as a distraction tactic.

Especially when that medium is reasonably unbiased in the content it allows to be posted by users.
Oh Lord no, Twitter will ban you if you look at @jack funny. They're anything but unbiased.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2017, 09:54:29 PM by SexWarrior »
<Parsifal> Jesus Christ
<Parsifal> Do I really have to write 6000-word sentences just to remove all ambiguity from everything I'm saying?

Where live, do the offer adult reading classes?

Re: Trump
« Reply #150 on: January 11, 2017, 09:54:43 PM »
jesus christ what is it with people taking twitter seriously

It's fucking Twitter.

I mean he said the same thing during his press conference today,

Quote
I have no deals that could happen in Russia, because we’ve stayed away. And I have no loans with Russia.
and Twitter is the main way Trump communicates to the American people. He says it's a "modern form of communication" and that he can "get it out much faster than a press release." "I get it out much more honestly than dealing with dishonest reporters because so many reporters are dishonest."

And it's not unprecedented for the president to have an official twitter, either. I don't see why we have to ignore his tweets by virtue of them being tweets. They exist, and they should be assumed to reflect his views unless he says otherwise, despite them being embarrassing at times.

*

Offline SexWarrior

  • e
  • *
  • Posts: 5041
  • (◕‿◕✿)
    • View Profile
    • The Flat Earth Society
Re: Trump
« Reply #151 on: January 11, 2017, 10:00:03 PM »
I mean he said the same thing during his press conference today
That's not what I'm criticising you for. I'm attacking you over "[it] further discredits his Tweets as being a good source of information". His tweets never were, are not, and never will be a good source of information. Some idiots (probably CNN) decided to pretend that it is, and we're all paying the price.

and Twitter is the main way Trump communicates to the American people. He says it's a "modern form of communication" and that he can "get it out much faster than a press release." "I get it out much more honestly than dealing with dishonest reporters because so many reporters are dishonest."
Breaking news: professional troll wants readers to get trolled. We'll bring more of this story to you as it develops here at No Shit Sherlock.

And it's not unprecedented for the president to have an official twitter, either.
That's great.

I don't see why we have to ignore his tweets by virtue of them being tweets.
We don't, but taking Twitter seriously by default means you're deliberately misinforming yourself. Kind of like taking infowars.com seriously. In the 21st century, you really need to develop an ability to tell apart good sources of information from bad. Trump's shitposts fall into the latter category.

They exist, and they should be assumed to reflect his views unless he says otherwise, despite them being embarrassing at times.
Why? Many people who post here (or on Twitter, the same concept applies) don't believe half the shit they say. Why would you assume that they do?
« Last Edit: January 11, 2017, 10:11:18 PM by SexWarrior »
<Parsifal> Jesus Christ
<Parsifal> Do I really have to write 6000-word sentences just to remove all ambiguity from everything I'm saying?

Where live, do the offer adult reading classes?

Re: Trump
« Reply #152 on: January 11, 2017, 10:30:38 PM »
Why would I assume that the president-elect of the United States means what he says he means on his main platform of communication? A legitimate platform of communication, despite this weird insistence that it's nothing but trolls?

But whatever, I don't want to get caught up on Twitter. The point is Trump is denying having anything to do with Russia currently.

Re: Trump
« Reply #153 on: January 11, 2017, 10:55:12 PM »
Angry Ranting version
bro join me: https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=5658.0

Twitter is a viable and well established means of communication on a global scale.  Despite it's early usage of spamming and shitposting, many high ranking officials, celebrities, and organizations use twitter to spread competent, important, and informative messages, data, or articles.
Taking Trump's Twitter ramblings as official statements from the campaign is nuts. He's trolling the shit out of everyone, and people giving it legitimacy means he can use it as a distraction tactic.
It's nuts until you realize he's telling people that they are official statements.
Maybe he is trolling us all but if he is, then how can you take anything he says seriously?  And if you can't take what the president of the USA says seriously, then how can anyone react to his messages?  We MUST assume everything he says is purely serious and not trolling, because otherwise we risk ignoring something he says he'll do, then does. 

Look, if you can't trust what the President of the United States says as being his accurate views, then what's the point of having him?  And from what we've seen, ignoring him just pisses him off.  Just like any other troll.  And again, a pissed off president can do shit a normal internet troll can't, like crash the stock market, have people killed, and go to war.

Quote
Especially when that medium is reasonably unbiased in the content it allows to be posted by users.
Oh Lord no, Twitter will ban you if you look at @jack funny. They're anything but unbiased.
Reasonably unbaised.  I know not what @jack funny is but generally speaking they let you type out any viewpoint you want without deleting tweets cause it's against the viewpoint of someone.

Re: Trump
« Reply #154 on: January 11, 2017, 11:29:54 PM »
SexWarrior, even if one were to perceive Trump's twitter as pure shitposting with zero basis in truth, isn't it kind of bad that the President-Elect regularly shitposts, especially about political issues? I don't want a shitposter for president. If, once in office, he got an official POTUS twitter and tweeted serious stuff from there and continued to shitpost on his own account, I wouldn't be that worried. But right now, yeah, they're at least a little bit worrisome.

Re: Trump
« Reply #155 on: January 12, 2017, 01:20:00 AM »
SexWarrior's argument of "lol it's Twitter, don't take it seriously" fails on several points.

1. Twitter, like any sort of medium, can be used both for shitposting and for serious communication. The White House uses Twitter seriously, and Trump can too.

2. Say some of what Trump posts is shitposting nonsense, which yea, it probably is. But by his own admission, he also uses Twitter for serious communication to supporters and the public alike, so it is best to assume what he says there is serious unless shown otherwise precisely because he is the president. If he says something serious, and we assume its shitposting, he has power other trolls do not to enact his intentions on a global scale.

3. Say everything on Trump's twitter feed is shitposting nonsense. Even if everything there is 100% bullcrap, he is still posting it for a reason, yes? I can't believe SexWarrior would be naïve enough to think Trump is posting "for the lulz". It is pretty obvious that he tweets to control media narratives or misdirect attention away from other things, and as such it is important to pay attention to his tweets even when they are shitposts.

4. And finally, let's say everything Trump posts is inane shitposts for literally no reason. You still shouldn't ignore it, because he's the goddamn president, and his words have consequences on the global stage. Trump tweets about Boeing building Air Force One, and Boeing's stock falls $2 per share. And that's not even the most effective thing he could do. Trump's twitter feed literally has the power to cause a diplomatic incident. Other trolls do not have this power. So it is still important to pay attention to what he tweets.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2017, 01:22:08 AM by trekky0623 »

*

Offline Parsifal

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3539
    • View Profile
Re: Trump
« Reply #156 on: January 12, 2017, 02:27:07 AM »


Trump shuts down CNN at a press conference, and it is glorious.
There is free speech and there is being an annoying twat. This user is exercising his right to the latter.

*

Offline honk

  • *
  • Posts: 18
    • View Profile
Re: Trump
« Reply #157 on: January 12, 2017, 02:46:26 AM »


^^^ If anyone wants to see what happened without narration from a lunatic like Mark Dice.

3. Say everything on Trump's twitter feed is shitposting nonsense. Even if everything there is 100% bullcrap, he is still posting it for a reason, yes? I can't believe SexWarrior would be naïve enough to think Trump is posting "for the lulz". It is pretty obvious that he tweets to control media narratives or misdirect attention away from other things, and as such it is important to pay attention to his tweets even when they are shitposts.

4. And finally, let's say everything Trump posts is inane shitposts for literally no reason. You still shouldn't ignore it, because he's the goddamn president, and his words have consequences on the global stage. Trump tweets about Boeing building Air Force One, and Boeing's stock falls $2 per share. And that's not even the most effective thing he could do. Trump's twitter feed literally has the power to cause a diplomatic incident. Other trolls do not have this power. So it is still important to pay attention to what he tweets.

That sounds like all the more reason why Trump's shitposting on Twitter should be ignored.

*

Offline SexWarrior

  • e
  • *
  • Posts: 5041
  • (◕‿◕✿)
    • View Profile
    • The Flat Earth Society
Re: Trump
« Reply #158 on: January 12, 2017, 02:52:32 AM »
isn't it kind of bad that the President-Elect regularly shitposts, especially about political issues? I don't want a shitposter for president.
To be perfectly honest with you, I can't answer that question impartially. Personally, I hugely enjoy shitposting. I enjoy it so much that I've incorporated it in my professional life. Those who know me professionally know that I'm perfectly capable to start shit for the sake of starting shit. They tolerate me because my competence otherwise massively outweighs the inconvenience. As such, I have a clear bias for Trump. I find it amusing that Trump is trolling people.

Is it bad? Tbh from my perspective it's a personality trait like any other. Some people are always serious, others aren't. Nobody held it against Reagan when he made jokes about the Soviet Union. I think it's more an issue of some people failing to keep up with the times than an issue of Trump being a decent troll. But I'm completely ready to admit that personal bias might be blinding me in this case.

If, once in office, he got an official POTUS twitter and tweeted serious stuff from there and continued to shitpost on his own account, I wouldn't be that worried. But right now, yeah, they're at least a little bit worrisome.
I more or less agree. If he trolls people from an official account, that's bad. If he chooses to troll people from a personal account, honestly I'd be a hypocrite if I held it against him.
<Parsifal> Jesus Christ
<Parsifal> Do I really have to write 6000-word sentences just to remove all ambiguity from everything I'm saying?

Where live, do the offer adult reading classes?

Re: Trump
« Reply #159 on: January 12, 2017, 03:03:36 AM »
3. Say everything on Trump's twitter feed is shitposting nonsense. Even if everything there is 100% bullcrap, he is still posting it for a reason, yes? I can't believe SexWarrior would be naïve enough to think Trump is posting "for the lulz". It is pretty obvious that he tweets to control media narratives or misdirect attention away from other things, and as such it is important to pay attention to his tweets even when they are shitposts.

4. And finally, let's say everything Trump posts is inane shitposts for literally no reason. You still shouldn't ignore it, because he's the goddamn president, and his words have consequences on the global stage. Trump tweets about Boeing building Air Force One, and Boeing's stock falls $2 per share. And that's not even the most effective thing he could do. Trump's twitter feed literally has the power to cause a diplomatic incident. Other trolls do not have this power. So it is still important to pay attention to what he tweets.

That sounds like all the more reason why Trump's shitposting on Twitter should be ignored.

That'd work if you could convince everyone to ignore his twitter, but you can't, so I'd rather know why Trump is shitposting and what effects it will have than try to ignore the most powerful person on the planet.