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Offline Woody

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Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
« Reply #140 on: December 29, 2016, 11:47:53 AM »
This one died from cancer:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3173212/Newlywed-shuns-chemotherapy-CARROTS-vows-beat-cancer-alternative-therapies-trying-baby-doctors-warn-s-no-evidence-work.html

Is that evidence it does not work?

Where does it say that she died from cancer?

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So is it your belief all doctors and researchers involved with researching a cure are evil and hiding the truth?
The drug companies don't control what gets posted on the internet.

Search her name, sometimes it is easy to find the information sometimes it is not.  This time it was easy.  Just add "death" after her name.  I would also try that every time you see someone saying they have refused treatment. Not the ones after they claim they cured their cancer.

I did not simply dismiss claims about curing cancer with home remedies. I went beyond of just accepting what was being written. My father had cancer and I can tell you garlic, carrots and what ever else being pushed as natural cures did not work.  I spent a lot of time and effort researching and learning about cancer.  End result is he got treatment and died 18 years later due to heart failure.

If you or a loved one ever gets cancer I highly suggest you do not just push garlic or carrots.  Really review and research the people making the claims they have a cure.  At best many are honest and misguided.  At worst some know exactly what they are doing and selling books.  I have even seen one with a hotline that charged $75 an hour.

I have a sister-in-law that writes false testimonials for things.  Her reasoning is she is fighting the pharmaceutical companies and it is justified.  She believes she is right, so believes what she doing is right. I do not agree and she does not care for me much since I tell her I do not.

I can use you as an example of this behavior with the Bishop Experiment. Wrong distance which was finally fixed, the amazing telescope allowing you to see incredible detail at 23 miles, that telescope not being affected by disturbances in the atmosphere, claiming you could see that beach with the naked eye.  I guess the last one could be true depending on how you want to define,"seeing the beach". If seeing the higher ground behind the beach is seeing the beach then I guess it is alright.

TL:DR

Just research the people making the claims by going beyond only reading what they wrote.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
« Reply #141 on: December 29, 2016, 04:44:00 PM »
Search her name, sometimes it is easy to find the information sometimes it is not.  This time it was easy.  Just add "death" after her name.  I would also try that every time you see someone saying they have refused treatment. Not the ones after they claim they cured their cancer.

I searched for Alex Wynn death and got

Another unnecessary death in the making, thanks to cancer quackery ...

Young woman with cancer is killing herself via alternative treatment ...

None of these links say that she died. They give the opinion of someone who thinks that she is killing herself. Please provide further evidence for your assertion that she died.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
« Reply #142 on: December 29, 2016, 06:01:45 PM »
Tom you pushed a lot of "correlation equals causation" narratives in the last 2 pages. It doesn't hold together because it doesn't show that carrots/prayer/Chinese medicine could be the only cause of the change in people's condition.

The placebo effect and morale are well known to be effective but that is about patient belief in health and well-being and nothing to do with garlic/carrots/bullshit medicine.
FE'ism requires suspension of disbelief...

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
« Reply #143 on: December 30, 2016, 12:34:51 AM »
Tom you pushed a lot of "correlation equals causation" narratives in the last 2 pages. It doesn't hold together because it doesn't show that carrots/prayer/Chinese medicine could be the only cause of the change in people's condition.

The placebo effect and morale are well known to be effective but that is about patient belief in health and well-being and nothing to do with garlic/carrots/bullshit medicine.

If Garlic is complete BS, please explain the following:

http://truedemocracyparty.net/2013/11/garlic-the-natural-cure-8-scientific-studies-that-prove-garlic-kills-cancer-dead-dead-dead/

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In Dr. Earl Mindell’s Garlic: The Miracle Nutrient, a 1957 study in the journal Science reported that researchers incubated sarcoma tumor cells with the garlic compound Allinase and S-ethyl-L-cysteine sulfoxide, then injected the tumor cells into mice. Tumor growth was completely inhibited and the mice survived beyond the sixth month observation period according to researchers. Mice injected with the tumor cells only (without the garlic compound), survived only 2 months.

http://www.miracleofgarlic.com/cancer-and-garlic/

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The good news is research into garlic against cancer has shown positive results.  In laboratory tests with mice, garlic stabilized and actually shrunk tumors.  In mice injected with garlic extracts, tumor growth decreased by 30-50%.  In mice that were given dietary garlic, the growths decreased by 10-25%.

http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9707/21/nfm.garlic.cancer/index.html

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One study, at the Mercy Cancer Institute in Pittsburgh, shows that garlic can help slow the growth of tumors.

"We have shown that some of these compounds prevent cancer in animals, and we hope that's the case in humans," said Shivendra Singh of the institute.

"We know how these garlic compounds are inhibiting cancer, but whether or not they have some kind of specificity for certain types of tumors, that remains to be seen," he said.

Other studies, some of them at West Virginia University, have found that garlic can inhibit the growth of breast cancer.

Also, says Dr. Donald Lamm of West Virginia University, "garlic very significantly reduced the growth of bladder tumors in mice."

Researchers at the university think garlic may help boost the immune system in laboratory mice, thereby reducing the growth of cancerous cells.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2016, 01:21:23 AM by Tom Bishop »

Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
« Reply #144 on: December 30, 2016, 09:05:32 AM »
Tom, all these studies show that garlic MIGHT reduce the risk of cancer, or slow cancer growth, or maybe even kill cancer cells under certain conditions. Many of the studies were only done on MICE, not humans. Also, most of the articles you provided don't even source the studies they are talking about. Here is an article that actually provides sources for the studies it references: https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/diet/garlic-fact-sheet.

Remember, you are claiming that curing cancer is trivial with garlic and peppers. None of these studies even come close to supporting your claim.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
« Reply #145 on: December 30, 2016, 01:01:00 PM »
Tom, all these studies show that garlic MIGHT reduce the risk of cancer, or slow cancer growth, or maybe even kill cancer cells under certain conditions. Many of the studies were only done on MICE, not humans. Also, most of the articles you provided don't even source the studies they are talking about. Here is an article that actually provides sources for the studies it references: https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/diet/garlic-fact-sheet.

Remember, you are claiming that curing cancer is trivial with garlic and peppers. None of these studies even come close to supporting your claim.

Actually the studies show that garlic DOES reverse cancer. The fact that it was done to mice in laboratory conditions, with control groups, pretty much demonstrates the effect to a certainty. You can't claim that the cancer was really cured by the mouses paleo diet or whatever.

So garlic just "happens" to reverse cancer in mice, but is non-effective in humans? And there just "happens" to be a ton of people who claim that garlic reversed their cancer? And garlic really does nothing? Are you even listening to yourself?
« Last Edit: December 30, 2016, 01:04:38 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
« Reply #146 on: December 30, 2016, 01:15:53 PM »
The source you linked provides additional evidence that garlic fights cancer:

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Several population studies show an association between increased intake of garlic and reduced risk of certain cancers, including cancers of the stomach, colon, esophagus, pancreas, and breast. Population studies are multidisciplinary studies of population groups that investigate the cause, incidence, or spread of a disease or examine the effect of health-related interventions, dietary and nutritional intakes, or environmental exposures. An analysis of data from seven population studies showed that the higher the amount of raw and cooked garlic consumed, the lower the risk of stomach and colorectal cancer (5).

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The results of a small, nonrandomized study indicate that the application of garlic extracts to some skin tumors may be beneficial. In the study, which involved 21 persons with basal cell carcinoma, the application of ajoene (a sulfurous chemical found in garlic) to the skin for 1 month markedly decreased the size of 17 tumors, increased tumor size in 3 patients, and resulted in no change in 1 other patient (16). Changes in tumor size ranged from an 88 percent reduction to a 69 percent increase, with an overall median reduction of 47 percent.

Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
« Reply #147 on: December 30, 2016, 09:28:19 PM »
Tom, all these studies show that garlic MIGHT reduce the risk of cancer, or slow cancer growth, or maybe even kill cancer cells under certain conditions. Many of the studies were only done on MICE, not humans. Also, most of the articles you provided don't even source the studies they are talking about. Here is an article that actually provides sources for the studies it references: https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/diet/garlic-fact-sheet.

Remember, you are claiming that curing cancer is trivial with garlic and peppers. None of these studies even come close to supporting your claim.

Actually the studies show that garlic DOES reverse cancer. The fact that it was done to mice in laboratory conditions, with control groups, pretty much demonstrates the effect to a certainty. You can't claim that the cancer was really cured by the mouses paleo diet or whatever.

You think those studies "demonstrate the effect to a certainty"? Lol. You seem determined to exaggerate any tiny bit of evidence that garlic MIGHT have some limited effect on cancer, into a full-blown miracle cure.

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So garlic just "happens" to reverse cancer in mice, but is non-effective in humans? And there just "happens" to be a ton of people who claim that garlic reversed their cancer? And garlic really does nothing? Are you even listening to yourself?

You are arguing with a straw-man. I didn't claim garlic does nothing. I claimed that you have no evidence that garlic makes cancer trivially easy to cure. There is a huge difference.

Also, there are plenty of studies that show positive results for mice but never succeed with humans. In case you didn't notice, mice and humans are ever so slightly different.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
« Reply #148 on: December 31, 2016, 02:21:46 AM »
Is your narrative now that garlic happens to cure cancer in mice, and only mice, but all the human people who claim that garlic has helped their cancers are liars? Come on now. That is just incredulous.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
« Reply #149 on: December 31, 2016, 03:16:34 AM »
Is your narrative now that garlic happens to cure cancer in mice, and only mice, but all the human people who claim that garlic has helped their cancers are liars? Come on now. That is just incredulous.

Don't be so dramatic.  People can simply be mistaken that it was the garlic that cured them and it is entirely possible that a treatment can work on an animal of a different species and not on humans. 
FE'ism requires suspension of disbelief...

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
« Reply #150 on: December 31, 2016, 03:47:16 AM »
People were saying that garlic cured cancer long before those animal studies. The Ancient Greek physician Hippocrates recommended his patients to eat large amounts of crushed garlic to cure their cancer.

What is the likelihood that this cancer marvel totally does not work on humans, but that it happens to cure cancer in mice?

I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall here.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
« Reply #151 on: December 31, 2016, 03:49:46 AM »
People were saying that garlic cured cancer long before those animal studies. The ancient greek Hippocrates recommended his patients eat large amounts of crushed garlic to cure their cancer.

Good for Hippocrates.  Is this supposed to prove something?  Lots of people claim that acupuncture can perform all sorts of miracles too, yet when double blind, placebo controlled studies are done, almost all of the claims about acupuncture prove to be invisible.  People can be, and often are, just wrong about what they perceive as the operating agent in their health turnarounds.

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What is the likelihood that this cancer marvel totally does not work on humans, but that it happens to cure cancer in mice?

I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall here.

I don't particularly care if you feel that way, you are making bad arguments.  Neither you nor I has any idea what the likelihood is, and to guess at it is an exercise in futility.  However, as Totes pointed out, the studies you cited say that garlic might contribute to curing patients, not that it definitely is an outright cure.
FE'ism requires suspension of disbelief...

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
« Reply #152 on: December 31, 2016, 03:57:23 AM »
There are countless types of of flowers and grasses and barks in the world, but Hippocrates happened to tell people to cure their cancer with something that actually does cure cancer in animal studies. The evidence it there, it is strong and plentiful, and to ignore it is plain denial.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
« Reply #153 on: December 31, 2016, 04:33:19 AM »
There are countless types of of flowers and grasses and barks in the world, but Hippocrates happened to tell people to cure their cancer with something that actually does cure cancer in animal studies.

He prescribed it, but where is your evidence that his course of treatment actually worked?

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The evidence it there, it is strong and plentiful, and to ignore it is plain denial.

The evidence is there, it just doesn't say what you want it to say.

FE'ism requires suspension of disbelief...

Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
« Reply #154 on: December 31, 2016, 07:38:09 PM »
Is your narrative now that garlic happens to cure cancer in mice, and only mice, but all the human people who claim that garlic has helped their cancers are liars? Come on now. That is just incredulous.

First of all, I don't think you know what incredulous means.

Second of all, no, that is not my narrative. You are still making straw-man arguments. I did not claim those people are liars, nor did I claim garlic cures cancer in mice, nor did I claim garlic isn't potentially useful in fighting cancer in humans or mice. My "narrative" is that your claim that garlic is some kind of miracle cure is baseless.

Third of all, the articles don't claim that garlic cures cancer EVEN IN MICE. These two articles that you provided claim that studies show that garlic can help prevent and shrink certain types of tumors in mice. Nowhere did they claim that the mice were cured of cancer. There is a difference. Slowing, shrinking, or preventing tumors is not the same as curing. It's definitely a step in the right direction, and potentially very useful, but it is not the same thing. Once again, those articles do not source the studies they reference, so take them with a grain of salt.

This article DOES source the studies it uses, and it shows mixed results for studies on humans. Some of the studies showed promising results, some did not. None showed that it was a perfect cure.

None of the articles you have provided reference any study that claims garlic cures cancer in either mice or men. If garlic is really the miracle cure that you think it is, why are there so many studies that only show a limited or no effect? Wouldn't those studies report a near 100% success rate if your claim was true?
« Last Edit: December 31, 2016, 07:42:33 PM by TotesNotReptilian »

Re: Cancer is easily cured with common grocery store items
« Reply #155 on: January 19, 2017, 10:28:37 PM »
So, I should take this sort of advice from a TFES forum poster, a guy who wrote a clickbait-syle titled book, and ancient medical practices over the modern medical community, with their decades of scientifically validated research and so much more?

No thanks.