Recent Posts

1
Flat Earth Debate / Convince me.
« Last post by Linkandar Airimder on Today at 05:15:41 AM »
Hello, Flat Earthers!
I recently joined just to look around. Now, call me crazy, but I've always believed the Earth was round. I understood the theories involved, and it made sense with the Earth being round.
But-
I think my greatest attribute is that I have a very open mind. So I'm going to give this a few weeks.
Convince me, and I will join you.
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Flat Earth General / Re: Shaquille O'Neal believes that the earth is flat
« Last post by markjo on Today at 02:39:10 AM »
Do you mean like the part where he said that he isn't serious 80% of the time?  Or the part where he said [other stuff]
No. It would take a particularly unintelligent person to think that's what I meant, and I know you better than that, markjo.
Then please point out exactly which part(s) you do mean.
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Flat Earth Debate / Re: Where is the edge
« Last post by walt on Today at 02:22:56 AM »
Hi,

I'm one to examine the texts of ancient civilizations as to the nature of the earth. I think that governments in the recent centuries have hidden plenty of facts from us, and Antarctica is no different. Take a look at the Book of Enoch, and ancient Hebrew text. It's some interesting content.

Also, I read in an old newspaper article that there was a map found in a cave on Hawaii that shows a chain of islands surrounding the known world, islands which aren't depicted on any of our maps. Worth a glance at least :)

Cheers,
Walt
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Do you mean like the part where he said that he isn't serious 80% of the time?  Or the part where he said [other stuff]
No. It would take a particularly unintelligent person to think that's what I meant, and I know you better than that, markjo.
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The typical flat earth map is what is called a Polar Azimuthal Equidistant Projection.

[...]

The bipolar map is a Gott-Mugnolo Azimuthal projection
Both FES maps severely predate their use as "projections" of the hypothetical globe Earth. But hey, nice try!
Which FES maps?  What years?  The first writings about azimuthal project are before 1100 AD.

The first known globe was created 2100 years ago, and the oldest existent globe is from 1492.

On this page, it suggests that early Greek philosophers used trigonometry to project how the earth would look from space to create some early maps....so even they were working from the concept of a globe: https://www.wired.com/2014/11/get-to-know-a-projection-azimuthal-orthographic/

But clearly the maps on this website are taken from more recent globes as they show Australia and Anarctica discovered in 1606 and 1820 or thereabouts.

And none of this actually counters any of the flight data I have posted that is based on spherical earth calculations and confirmed by actual recorded flight times. Even if there are maps predating modern globes, do they have accurate distances between all points as calculated by spherical trigonometry, depicted on any modern globe, and measured by modern aircraft? Where are the flat earth maps that accomplish this relatively simple task given that they are supposed to represent a roughly two-dimensional surface? Why do globes accomplish this task when no flat map is able to do so without distortion?
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The typical flat earth map is what is called a Polar Azimuthal Equidistant Projection.

[...]

The bipolar map is a Gott-Mugnolo Azimuthal projection
Both FES maps severely predate their use as "projections" of the hypothetical globe Earth. But hey, nice try!
Which FES maps?  What years?  The first writings about azimuthal project are before 1100 AD.
8
The typical flat earth map is what is called a Polar Azimuthal Equidistant Projection.

[...]

The bipolar map is a Gott-Mugnolo Azimuthal projection
Both FES maps severely predate their use as "projections" of the hypothetical globe Earth. But hey, nice try!
9
Flat Earth General / Re: I'm looking for a volunteer, a true flat earth believer.
« Last post by Nirmala on March 29, 2017, 09:13:18 PM »
The typical flat earth map is what is called a Polar Azimuthal Equidistant Projection. As described on Wikipedia, "It has the useful properties that all points on the map are at proportionately correct distances from the center point, and that all points on the map are at the correct azimuth (direction) from the center point. A useful application for this type of projection is a polar projection which shows all meridians (lines of longitude) as straight, with distances from the pole represented correctly. The flag of the United Nations contains an example of a polar azimuthal equidistant projection. It is useful for showing airline distances from center point of projection and for seismic and radio work."

So it shows fairly accurate distances for north/south airline flights in the Northern Hemisphere including all great circle flights that go near the north pole, as those flights would travel generally north and then generally south, such as Los Angeles to Dubai. And if you plot these flights on this kind of map, distances and the path flown are pretty close to being accurate. Flights due east or west would be less accurate and more so as you move further away from the pole. Once you reach the Southern Hemisphere, then east /west distances are all messed up. This is why continents in the Northern Hemisphere look pretty porportional to their actual shape. Then as you approach and cross the equator to the south, things get more and more messed up which is why South America and Australia look so disproportional to the shape they would be if you measured them from the air (you can use the flight tracker linked to above to check this, and Sydney to Perth is the easiest example to check).

Just for fun, below is a Polar Azimuthal Equidistant Projection using the South Pole as the center point.

And guess what? Now everything stated above is still true if you simply swap the words North and South. Continents and flight paths in the Southern Hemisphere suddenly look relatively correct and the continents and flight paths in the North are all messed up....and I mean really messed up!!

I am not surprised that  no one has argued for a flat earth with the south pole at the center! And this is true, even though many other aspects of the flat earth model would work almost as well such as the path of the sun and moon in the sky. Luckily for flat earth proponents, most of the earth's population lives in the Northern Hemisphere, so the gross discrepancies in their map do not jump out at people who are north-centric in their worldview.

It is also ironic that the main map used by flat earth proponents is actually created by projecting the earth as it appears on a globe onto a flat surface. Their own map is based on a globe! The bipolar map is a Gott-Mugnolo Azimuthal projection which is a similar projection taken with a point on the equator as the center, and while it does correct some distances, it also has distortions and also is a projection taken from a globe!!

Can't the flat earthers come up with their own map without cheating off of the globe?
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Flat Earth General / Re: I'm looking for a volunteer, a true flat earth believer.
« Last post by Nirmala on March 29, 2017, 06:58:29 PM »
I thought you were finished here.  ???

I couldn't help myself from coming back, and thanks for making me feel so welcome here  :'(

In general, I am moving on. However, if anyone does respond to this discussion, just send me a PM to alert me if you want me to consider your ideas. I would be very open to it if any flat earther could show me a world map that does work with the air travel data in the links I shared. But it seems pretty obvious that this would have already happened if the earth were truly flat. It is a bit mind boggling to think that in this day and age someone could suggest that no one is able to draw an accurate map of the surface of our planet, when it has been traversed so many millions of times. I found a source online that suggests that 102,465 commercial airline flights occur each and every day covering 49,871 regularly scheduled routes. In 2014 that worked out to 37.4 million flights, which does not even include private aircraft and military flights. How is it possible that all of those pilots seem to be arriving at their destinations according to the flight paths worked out using spherical geometry? And really, why would there not be detailed maps at least of all of the most populated areas and major air routes over the ocean that could be pieced together into a relatively accurate map of this supposed flat earth, if in fact those millions of flights were over a relatively flat earth? Are all commercial, military and private pilots in on this grand conspiracy to deceive the rest of us into believing that the earth is round?

And wouldn't a lot of passengers have complained by now if all of the flights in the southern hemisphere took much longer than the airlines say they should take and are actually being flown each and every day? I saw a youtube video where someone claimed that these flights are scheduled but never actually happen. Don't you think thousands of travelers would have complained by now that they are unable to book regularly scheduled flights listed on multiple airlines and flight booking sites? I personally have flown from Sydney to Perth, and it took about 5 hours. Where are all of the other stymied travelers who are not getting where they want to go, or who are landing hours and hours later than they were promised?

Discussing things on this site can feel like talking to empty space, or I am asked why I have not left yet :-\ To his credit, at least Tom Bishop tried to respond, albeit briefly and at times nonsensically, to my questions. Anyone else want to take a shot?