Thork

Werner Von Braun's grave stone
« on: April 27, 2016, 05:59:35 PM »


That is the genuine grave stone. You can google image search for his grave to double check.

Note the reference psalms 19:1

When you look up that reference you find the flat earth reference
Quote from: https://www.bible.com/en-GB/bible/1/psa.19.1.kjv
1The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.

Offline 3DGeek

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Re: Werner Von Braun's grave stone
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2017, 06:16:56 PM »
Psalms 19:1 in King James' says: "The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork."
More modern translations say "The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands."

Doesn't seem to support either RET or FET as far as I can see.

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Offline Dither

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Re: Werner Von Braun's grave stone
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2017, 05:04:59 AM »
He became a Christian later in life, its a good quote for a Rocket Scientist.

I do believe he also left it as a clue, anything more might have gotten his family into trouble.
Once you learn certain secrets about the world, there's no way to unlearn them.   

Just like the Neil Armstrong quote below, a little hint to ease the conscience perhaps.

QUOTE:
"Wilbur Wright once noted that the only bird that could talk was the parrot, and he didn't fly very well."
 
 

 
A lie will make it around the world before the truth has time to put on it’s shoes.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Werner Von Braun's grave stone
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2017, 07:06:17 PM »
Psalms 19:1 in King James' says: "The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork."
More modern translations say "The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands."

Doesn't seem to support either RET or FET as far as I can see.

Why do we need a modern translation? Was translation not possible in the past?

Offline 3DGeek

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Re: Werner Von Braun's grave stone
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2017, 02:55:33 PM »
Psalms 19:1 in King James' says: "The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork."
More modern translations say "The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands."

Doesn't seem to support either RET or FET as far as I can see.

Why do we need a modern translation? Was translation not possible in the past?

Of course it was possible - but modern scholars have more sources (such as the Dead Sea Scrolls) to work with - and more contemporaneous material with which to compare language use from those times.   So modern translations tend to be more reliable.

For example - many people who read old translations of the Koran believe that if they die a martyr, they'll be rewarded with 72 virgins - which is clearly a great incitement for suicide bombers and the like.   Unfortunately, a more careful modern translation reveals that the word for "virgin" was in fact mistranslated and they're actually being promised either 72 raisins (unlikely) or 72 "crystal clarities"...which could either be explanations for the way the world really is or perhaps 72 people with clarity of thinking.

In that case, they discovered that the original work was written in a dialect of Arabic called "Syriac" that has a slightly different set of words from modern Arabic - and the word for "virgin" means "someone who has crystal clarity of mind/spirit".

So clearly, having an accurate translation matters!

Anyway no matter which translation you pick, Thork's claim that this bible passage is "a flat earth reference" is one hell of a stretch.

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Offline Dither

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Re: Werner Von Braun's grave stone
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2017, 04:38:18 AM »
Of course it was possible - but modern scholars have more sources (such as the Dead Sea Scrolls) to work with - and more contemporaneous material with which to compare language use from those times.   So modern translations tend to be more reliable.

Taking into account more sources is not always a good idea, majority does not equal accuracy.
This is a big discussion but there is a reasonable argument towards preferencing Received text over Majority text.
Personally, I prefer Geneva over KJV and I regularly use NASB which is Majority Text but yes KJV is accurate.

 

A lie will make it around the world before the truth has time to put on it’s shoes.

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Offline ErnestV1

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Re: Werner Von Braun's grave stone
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2017, 03:49:51 PM »
Of course it was possible - but modern scholars have more sources (such as the Dead Sea Scrolls) to work with - and more contemporaneous material with which to compare language use from those times.   So modern translations tend to be more reliable.

Taking into account more sources is not always a good idea, majority does not equal accuracy.
This is a big discussion but there is a reasonable argument towards preferencing Received text over Majority text.
Personally, I prefer Geneva over KJV and I regularly use NASB which is Majority Text but yes KJV is accurate.
I use NASB as well as doing word studies in the original language. Frankly I think the Jews had their celestial science wrong (or we are reading too much into poetic verse) bit their Spirituality was exceptional. Therefore, to me, the reference on von Braun's head stone was a touching and poetic spiritual summation for a brilliant scientific mind. I fail to see any hidden meaning therein.
I love how the sun shines on the bottom of the clouds and sunrise and sunset!

We may disagree on many things, but I will always try to respect everyone and thereby reflect the love of Christ.

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Offline Dither

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Re: Werner Von Braun's grave stone
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2017, 10:06:21 AM »
I fail to see any hidden meaning therein.

You are choosing not to see it because it suits your current worldview.

The Hebrews were correct, the cosmology also appears in other ancient cultures in different degrees.
Its very similar to how the deluge mythology is mirrored, it points to the truth.
You have stated that you are open minded, if this is true keep investigating NASA.




A lie will make it around the world before the truth has time to put on it’s shoes.

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Offline ErnestV1

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Re: Werner Von Braun's grave stone
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2017, 01:02:48 AM »
I fail to see any hidden meaning therein.

You are choosing not to see it because it suits your current worldview.

The Hebrews were correct, the cosmology also appears in other ancient cultures in different degrees.
Its very similar to how the deluge mythology is mirrored, it points to the truth.
You have stated that you are open minded, if this is true keep investigating NASA.
I am choosing...? No doubt you are also choosing to see things based upon your own world view? I acknowledge I have bias, though I do at least try to see other people's point of view. Do you acknowledge your own bias? Can you see my point of view?

If von Braun had chosen that quote, perhaps we might investigate and discover more subtle hints that he was working for a fraudulent cause and wanted the world to know about it?

I have been watching the videos that supposedly reveal NASA as fraudulent with an open mind... honestly, my trust in them has been reaffirmed as I have done so. There is one particular video of an astronaut giving an extended tour of the ISS. It is fascinating to me how many spaces they went through without any cuts. I have two children who have been studying theater so I am well aware of how difficult it is to run a cut-less scene, especially through multiple spaces. Also, the microgravity was throughout the entire 30 minutes of cut-less footage, so that fully eliminated the possibility of filming on a jet in free fall on two counts: microgravity durarion with zero aparent wires and size of the 'set'. Here is the link if you wish to check my findings. I look forward to hearing your take on it...

But maybe that would be best in the debate forum? Look for me to start a thread there... OR message me if you want to discuss it in private.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2017, 01:34:40 AM by ErnestV1 »
I love how the sun shines on the bottom of the clouds and sunrise and sunset!

We may disagree on many things, but I will always try to respect everyone and thereby reflect the love of Christ.

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Offline Dither

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Re: Werner Von Braun's grave stone
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2017, 08:59:43 AM »
I have been watching the videos that supposedly reveal NASA as fraudulent with an open mind...
honestly, my trust in them has been reaffirmed as I have done so.

What is the rough age of the Earth in your opinion?
A lie will make it around the world before the truth has time to put on it’s shoes.

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Offline ErnestV1

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Re: Werner Von Braun's grave stone
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2017, 09:32:38 PM »
I have been watching the videos that supposedly reveal NASA as fraudulent with an open mind...
honestly, my trust in them has been reaffirmed as I have done so.

What is the rough age of the Earth in your opinion?

How does this relate to the topic?
I love how the sun shines on the bottom of the clouds and sunrise and sunset!

We may disagree on many things, but I will always try to respect everyone and thereby reflect the love of Christ.

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Offline Boots

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Re: Werner Von Braun's grave stone
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2017, 02:25:44 AM »
That verse on his tombstone says nothing about what he believed regarding the earths shape. Unless there is more reliable information somewhere, all that tells us is that someone, for some reason decided to have that engraved on his tombstone. Even if it was engraved on there because it was his favorite passage, it in no way indicates what shape he believed the earth to be.

Furthermore, let's see some proof that the picture is genuine and that it is actually Werner Von Braun who is buried under that tombstone. I refuse to believe it until I see proof for such an outlandish claim.
Where the senses fail us, reason must step in. - Galileo Galilei

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Offline Dither

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Re: Werner Von Braun's grave stone
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2017, 12:20:10 PM »
That verse on his tombstone says nothing about what he believed regarding the earths shape.

Some believe the verse has to do with Operation Fishbowl.
A lie will make it around the world before the truth has time to put on it’s shoes.