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Ghost of V

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Bechdel test
« on: December 18, 2014, 11:08:21 PM »
http://bechdeltest.com

I just learned about this. I'm not sure if this is a well known thing or what. Apparently some people judge the quality of a movie based on this test. It seems highly inaccurate.

Here's some famous films that failed the test: the entire Star Wars original trilogy, The Lord of the Rings trilogy, Pacific Rim, Avatar, every Pixar movie except A Bug's Life, Brave, The Incredibles, and Toy Story 3, and many many more.

Just wanted to see if anyone else knew about this and what they think about it.

For the record, I think it's fucking stupid.
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Offline Snupes

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Re: Bechdel test
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2014, 11:14:42 PM »
Uhh, it doesn't judge the quality of a movie, it's just something that points out that women in movies tend to be there just to add to the male characters and that movies don't really have well-written, well-developed female characters.
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Ghost of V

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Re: Bechdel test
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2014, 11:16:48 PM »
Quote from: Snupes on December 18, 2014, 11:14:42 PM
Uhh, it doesn't judge the quality of a movie, it's just something that points out that women in movies tend to be there just to add to the male characters and that movies don't really have well-written, well-developed female characters.

That seems related to quality. Some people do judge the quality of a movie by this test. At least from a feminist perspective.
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Offline Snupes

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Re: Bechdel test
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2014, 11:17:52 PM »
øk
Quote from: Thork on April 19, 2015, 10:53:35 AM
There are cigarettes in joints. You don't smoke it by itself.

Saddam Hussein

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Re: Bechdel test
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2014, 11:24:02 PM »
It's a very well-known thing, although I've never heard of anyone judging the overall quality of a movie based solely on this.  Anyway, it's not a bad place to start when looking at gender bias or feminist themes in film, although it's not perfect by any means, and there are too many exceptions to consider it a hard-and-fast rule.  Pulp Fiction (just barely) passes it, Gravity fails it, etc.
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Offline Particle Person

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Re: Bechdel test
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2014, 11:35:03 PM »
Quote from: Vauxhall on December 18, 2014, 11:16:48 PM
Quote from: Snupes on December 18, 2014, 11:14:42 PM
Uhh, it doesn't judge the quality of a movie, it's just something that points out that women in movies tend to be there just to add to the male characters and that movies don't really have well-written, well-developed female characters.

That seems related to quality. Some people do judge the quality of a movie by this test. At least from a feminist perspective.

Why wouldn't they?
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Ghost of V

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Re: Bechdel test
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2014, 12:52:56 AM »
I'm not sure I understand the question, PP2.

Just watched Labyrinth and I'm pretty sure it fails the test.
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Offline rooster

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Re: Bechdel test
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2014, 01:28:48 AM »
I don't think it does. The girl and her mother talk and they're not talking about a man.

Ghost of V

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Re: Bechdel test
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2014, 01:31:29 AM »
They're talking about dating and babysitting.
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Offline Tau

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Re: Bechdel test
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2014, 01:34:14 AM »
Quote from: Vauxhall on December 19, 2014, 01:31:29 AM
They're talking about dating and babysitting.

Does that count? I know Baby Got Back passes the Bechdel test for the conversation in the beginning about a third girl's butt.
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Offline rooster

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Re: Bechdel test
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2014, 01:51:15 AM »
Babysitting definitely doesn't count. And they're only talking about dating because the stepmom wants her to have plans rather than be antisocial.

Ghost of V

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Re: Bechdel test
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2014, 01:51:44 AM »
From Labyrinth:


MOTHER: SARAH, YOU'RE AN HOUR LATE.
SARAH: I SAID I'M SORRY.
MOTHER: YOUR FATHER AND I GO OUT VERY RARELY.
SARAH: YOU GO OUT EVERY WEEKEND!
MOTHER: I ASK YOU TO BABY-SIT
MOTHER: ONLY IF IT WON'T INTERFERE WITH YOUR PLANS.
SARAH: YOU DON'T EVEN ASK WHAT MY PLANS ARE.
MOTHER: I ASSUME YOU'D TELL ME IF YOU HAD A DATE.
MOTHER: YOU SHOULD HAVE DATES AT YOUR AGE.
FATHER: WE WERE WORRIED ABOUT YOU.
SARAH: I CAN'T DO ANYTHING RIGHT!


The baby in question is a boy. Then they are arguing about dating. Presumably dating boys her age, but it is ambiguous. Also, I forget, does the mother have a name?

I'm not sure if this counts. It's debatable, which is one of the reasons this test is flawed.
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Offline rooster

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Re: Bechdel test
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2014, 01:53:03 AM »
The dad doesn't even have a name. Parents don't matter in movies about teens.

And the gender of the baby is irrelevant.

Ghost of V

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Re: Bechdel test
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2014, 02:17:17 AM »
But one of the requirements is that they have to be named, right?
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Offline Rushy

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Re: Bechdel test
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2014, 02:23:28 AM »
On the notion of shitposting.
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Offline Particle Person

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Re: Bechdel test
« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2014, 02:25:26 AM »
Quote from: Irushwithscvs on December 19, 2014, 02:23:28 AM
On the notion of shitposting.

How meta of you.
Quote from: Excelsior John on June 08, 2015, 04:47:25 PM
Your mom is when your mom and you arent your mom.
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Offline Rushy

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Re: Bechdel test
« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2014, 02:26:16 AM »
Quote from: Particle Person on December 19, 2014, 02:25:26 AM
Quote from: Irushwithscvs on December 19, 2014, 02:23:28 AM
On the notion of shitposting.

How meta of you.

Is this what you're going to do now?
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Offline rooster

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Re: Bechdel test
« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2014, 02:27:58 AM »
Quote from: Vauxhall on December 19, 2014, 02:17:17 AM
But one of the requirements is that they have to be named, right?
Did you even read the 3 requirements in the link you posted?

Ghost of V

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Re: Bechdel test
« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2014, 02:35:23 AM »
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bechdel_test


The requirement that the two women must be named is sometimes added.


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Saddam Hussein

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Re: Bechdel test
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2014, 02:39:32 AM »
Dating is not a man.  Babysitting is not a man.  Therefore, it passes the test.  There are some variants to the test, like adding that the two characters have to be named, or that the conversation needs to last a certain length of time, but I don't like those.  The main reason why the test works so well in highlighting gender bias is its incredible simplicity, the fact that it's setting the bar very, very low - and yet so many films fail it anyway.  By throwing on little qualifiers and making it more complex, the test becomes less incredibly easy, and so the impact of failing such a test is lessened somewhat.
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