Airplanes lit from below
« on: August 16, 2017, 11:41:08 PM »
I live about 20 miles from the local airport, directly under a common flight path.  Because of this I constantly have airplanes fly over my house as they are coming in to land.  One thing that I have observed is that just after sunset, but before dark, if I look up in the sky at one of these planes, I can see them clearly as they are lit from the sun from below.  This fact is something that has been known since the dawn of military aviation as even the most stealthy of aircraft is visible clearly from the ground after the sun has set on the ground below but before the sun has set on the airplane.  This makes perfect sense from a RE perspective as the sun would actually be below the airplane at this point.  How does this phenomenon work from a FE perspective?  From what I understand the sun is a constant 3000 miles above the surface of the plane of the earth. How then does a flying aircraft become lit form underneath? Please explain.

Re: Airplanes lit from below
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2017, 12:32:17 AM »
Here is a pic I took just now of this phenomenon.  Sorry for the crappy android camera.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Airplanes lit from below
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2017, 03:23:06 AM »
It's not being lit from below, it's being lit from the side. The horizon line rises to the level of the eye and the sun disappears into it via perspective.

Re: Airplanes lit from below
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2017, 05:26:02 AM »
It's not being lit from below, it's being lit from the side. The horizon line rises to the level of the eye and the sun disappears into it via perspective.
Diagram please to explain. How can the horizon change?

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Airplanes lit from below
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2017, 08:33:30 AM »


In an editorial from the London Journal, July 18, 1857, one journalist describes the following from a hot-air balloon ascent:

Quote from: London Journal
The chief peculiarity of the view from a balloon at a considerable elevation was the altitude of the horizon, which remained practically on a level with the eye at an elevation of two miles, causing the surface of the earth to appear concave instead of convex, and to recede during the rapid ascent, whilst the horizon and the balloon seemed to be stationary.

During the rapid ascent in the balloon the author saw new and distant lands reveal themselves from the stationary horizon. The higher the balloon traveled in height, the further he saw. His perspective lines were constantly changing, revealing additional lands, while the balloon and the eye level horizon line remained stationary.

Re: Airplanes lit from below
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2017, 09:51:23 AM »


In an editorial from the London Journal, July 18, 1857, one journalist describes the following from a hot-air balloon ascent:

Quote from: London Journal
The chief peculiarity of the view from a balloon at a considerable elevation was the altitude of the horizon, which remained practically on a level with the eye at an elevation of two miles, causing the surface of the earth to appear concave instead of convex, and to recede during the rapid ascent, whilst the horizon and the balloon seemed to be stationary.

During the rapid ascent in the balloon the author saw new and distant lands reveal themselves from the stationary horizon. The higher the balloon traveled in height, the further he saw. His perspective lines were constantly changing, revealing additional lands, while the balloon and the eye level horizon line remained stationary.
Any recent explanations?

The further he rose the more he saw over the horizon of the round earth.

Still waiting to hear what equipment you need.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Airplanes lit from below
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2017, 10:40:26 AM »
Any recent explanations?

Why? Does truth have an expiration date?

Re: Airplanes lit from below
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2017, 11:33:52 AM »
Any recent explanations?

Why? Does truth have an expiration date?
Your usual unhelpful answer.  It was not true then or now and I am sure you know that.

Equipment list for determining the shape of the earth please.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Airplanes lit from below
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2017, 11:43:39 AM »
Your usual unhelpful answer.  It was not true then or now and I am sure you know that.

Why would the London Journal lie about this subject?

Quote
Equipment list for determining the shape of the earth please.

What are you talking about and what does it have to do with this thread?

Re: Airplanes lit from below
« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2017, 11:56:03 AM »
Your usual unhelpful answer.  It was not true then or n ow and I am sure you know that.

Why would the London Journal lie about this subject?

Quote
Equipment list for determining the shape of the earth please.

What are you talking about and what does it have to do with this thread?
The fake news of its time. Please concentrate on showing us answers that are recognised today, the sun is lower than the plane.

You have not answered the request elsewhere, why not, you are obligated so to do.

Offline StinkyOne

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Re: Airplanes lit from below
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2017, 12:38:53 PM »
It's not being lit from below, it's being lit from the side. The horizon line rises to the level of the eye and the sun disappears into it via perspective.

I see planes lit from the bottom all the time. Even more convincing is that fact that you can go out any morning/evening when their are some clouds in the sky and see they are lit from the bottom. Perspective cannot cause light to illuminate the underside of clouds if the light source is above the clouds. Your willingness to ignore evidence that you are clearly wrong, while basing your views on outdated material, is very odd.
I saw a video where a pilot was flying above the sun.
-Terry50

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Offline TomInAustin

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Re: Airplanes lit from below
« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2017, 02:27:06 PM »
Your usual unhelpful answer.  It was not true then or now and I am sure you know that.

Why would the London Journal lie about this subject?

Quote
Equipment list for determining the shape of the earth please.

What are you talking about and what does it have to do with this thread?

It has never been proven in a laboratory.  Please provide evidence.
Do you have a citation for this sweeping generalisation?

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Airplanes lit from below
« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2017, 10:53:51 PM »
It's not being lit from below, it's being lit from the side. The horizon line rises to the level of the eye and the sun disappears into it via perspective.

I see planes lit from the bottom all the time. Even more convincing is that fact that you can go out any morning/evening when their are some clouds in the sky and see they are lit from the bottom. Perspective cannot cause light to illuminate the underside of clouds if the light source is above the clouds. Your willingness to ignore evidence that you are clearly wrong, while basing your views on outdated material, is very odd.

The answer is that due to perspective, the sun is setting it near the eye level of the observer, and therefore its rays are coming at you from the side. The sun's rays are also hitting clouds from the side. The back end of the cloud is facing you, and the cloud is semi-transparent, so it appears as if the cloud is illuminated from the bottom.

Re: Airplanes lit from below
« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2017, 07:04:39 AM »
It's not being lit from below, it's being lit from the side. The horizon line rises to the level of the eye and the sun disappears into it via perspective.

I see planes lit from the bottom all the time. Even more convincing is that fact that you can go out any morning/evening when their are some clouds in the sky and see they are lit from the bottom. Perspective cannot cause light to illuminate the underside of clouds if the light source is above the clouds. Your willingness to ignore evidence that you are clearly wrong, while basing your views on outdated material, is very odd.

The answer is that due to perspective, the sun is setting it near the eye level of the observer, and therefore its rays are coming at you from the side. The sun's rays are also hitting clouds from the side. The back end of the cloud is facing you, and the cloud is semi-transparent, so it appears as if the cloud is illuminated from the bottom.
An aircraft is not transparent and the sun is lower than it hence illuminates the bottom.  It is very simple.

Why do you continually use the word perspective when it has no meaning related to the subject?

Re: Airplanes lit from below
« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2017, 12:35:56 PM »
It's not being lit from below, it's being lit from the side. The horizon line rises to the level of the eye and the sun disappears into it via perspective.

I see planes lit from the bottom all the time. Even more convincing is that fact that you can go out any morning/evening when their are some clouds in the sky and see they are lit from the bottom. Perspective cannot cause light to illuminate the underside of clouds if the light source is above the clouds. Your willingness to ignore evidence that you are clearly wrong, while basing your views on outdated material, is very odd.

The answer is that due to perspective, the sun is setting it near the eye level of the observer, and therefore its rays are coming at you from the side. The sun's rays are also hitting clouds from the side. The back end of the cloud is facing you, and the cloud is semi-transparent, so it appears as if the cloud is illuminated from the bottom.
This doesn't explain the plane, and perspective wouldn't change where the light is actually coming from. Just because you see a light touching the horizon due to your perspective, doesn't make the light begin to come from there unless the rays of light are curving. Are they curving Tom? Because science says they don't.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Airplanes lit from below
« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2017, 12:53:49 PM »
The plane is lit from the side.

Yes, the light is coming from the side. The sun is 90 degrees from zenith at sunset. Therefore the light is intersecting you horizontally from the side.

Offline StinkyOne

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Re: Airplanes lit from below
« Reply #16 on: August 18, 2017, 08:24:33 PM »
The plane is lit from the side.

Yes, the light is coming from the side. The sun is 90 degrees from zenith at sunset. Therefore the light is intersecting you horizontally from the side.

If it is 90 degrees from zenith, then it is one the horizon. Earth is round. Perspective, and please read this carefully, does NOT change positions of objects. The sun, according to FET NEVER GETS LOWER TO THE GROUND. (at least substantially since I guess the sun and moon magically bob around up there) Light travels in a straight line and will never illuminate the bottoms of clouds, etc, yet you can see this every day. You misuse perspective to huge extent and you know it.
I saw a video where a pilot was flying above the sun.
-Terry50

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Airplanes lit from below
« Reply #17 on: August 18, 2017, 09:04:11 PM »
The plane is lit from the side.

Yes, the light is coming from the side. The sun is 90 degrees from zenith at sunset. Therefore the light is intersecting you horizontally from the side.

If it is 90 degrees from zenith, then it is one the horizon. Earth is round. Perspective, and please read this carefully, does NOT change positions of objects. The sun, according to FET NEVER GETS LOWER TO THE GROUND. (at least substantially since I guess the sun and moon magically bob around up there) Light travels in a straight line and will never illuminate the bottoms of clouds, etc, yet you can see this every day. You misuse perspective to huge extent and you know it.

In a railroad perspective scene the tracks of a railroad can ascend in height to your eye level. Why can't the sun descend to your eye level?

Re: Airplanes lit from below
« Reply #18 on: August 18, 2017, 09:12:53 PM »
The plane is lit from the side.

Yes, the light is coming from the side. The sun is 90 degrees from zenith at sunset. Therefore the light is intersecting you horizontally from the side.

If it is 90 degrees from zenith, then it is one the horizon. Earth is round. Perspective, and please read this carefully, does NOT change positions of objects. The sun, according to FET NEVER GETS LOWER TO THE GROUND. (at least substantially since I guess the sun and moon magically bob around up there) Light travels in a straight line and will never illuminate the bottoms of clouds, etc, yet you can see this every day. You misuse perspective to huge extent and you know it.

In a railroad perspective scene the tracks of a railroad can ascend in height to your eye level. Why can't the sun descend to your eye level?
But that doesn't make them physically at the height of your eye, any more than the sun doing it would. If the sun setting is a trick of perspective, sunlight shouldn't be hitting clouds from the side at much of an angle, unless you're claiming light is bending/curving.

Re: Airplanes lit from below
« Reply #19 on: August 18, 2017, 09:37:09 PM »
The plane is lit from the side.

Yes, the light is coming from the side. The sun is 90 degrees from zenith at sunset. Therefore the light is intersecting you horizontally from the side.

If it is 90 degrees from zenith, then it is one the horizon. Earth is round. Perspective, and please read this carefully, does NOT change positions of objects. The sun, according to FET NEVER GETS LOWER TO THE GROUND. (at least substantially since I guess the sun and moon magically bob around up there) Light travels in a straight line and will never illuminate the bottoms of clouds, etc, yet you can see this every day. You misuse perspective to huge extent and you know it.

In a railroad perspective scene the tracks of a railroad can ascend in height to your eye level. Why can't the sun descend to your eye level?
We are discussing actual measurable facts.  When I see the sun set in the west it appears higher in the sky for someone 500 miles to the west of me.