Offline TriangularEarth

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Questions about the Flat Earth Theory and the Eclipses
« on: May 18, 2017, 08:45:25 PM »
Just found this gem of a video asking all the right questions on Youtube


Maybe the FES could answer a few.

Re: Questions about the Flat Earth Theory and the Eclipses
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2017, 09:14:20 PM »
do you expect any honest and or serious answers to this youtube video ? ... I've been trying and have got nothing but hostility towards my formatting .. good luck
according the FErs it is supposedly a gigantic black disc, made of some sort of non-transparent material that shadows the face of the Moon
Oh by the way ........ ... the Sun is resting on the flat plane of the earth ? ... it gotta be starting Forrest fires .. BLAH !!!
« Last Edit: May 18, 2017, 09:21:18 PM by Boodidlie »
The first wave of Matthew 24 end time signs is deception

Offline 3DGeek

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Re: Questions about the Flat Earth Theory and the Eclipses
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2017, 09:18:09 PM »
I'm not a card-carrying FE'er - but I don't think it's necessary to be rude - especially here, as guests on the website they've lovingly created and maintained.

I believe that the fair way to resolve these questions is to politely read the Wiki - and raise simple questions that it does not cover and steadfastly demand explanations and point out problems and inconsistencies with FE theory.

Eclipses are explained all over FET...albeit not to RE astronomy standards - but there are explanations.

The FE responses to the questions raised in the video aren't all that fancy.

1) Why no FE predictions of eclipses?  FE'ers can't predict eclipses because there aren't enough mathematicians, physicists and/or astronomers who believe in FET who are doing the math.  Laypersons without deep knowledge can't be expected to do that - so I think we have to be somewhat forgiving.  I regard myself as fairly educated - fluent in basic math, physics and astronomy - but I certainly couldn't predict an RE eclipse.   It's unreasonable to demand that similarly qualified FE'ers are able to do so.

2) Why do...predictions...correspond with the Earth being a spheroid?  Many predictions of RET are amazingly similar to FET predictions...this doesn't allow you to say that one or the other is more true.  This cuts both ways.

3) What exactly is the moon?  Well, according to FET, nobody has been there - they know it's 3,000 miles away and 32 miles across - that it glows with it's own light - some say from unknown sources (fair enough - admit what you don't know) - others say from luminous creatures that migrate over it's surface (!!).   From the diagrams in the Wiki, it's clear that it's a sphere...I don't see anything that says that it's transparent - seems to me like the sky glow can be in front of it just like it is in RET so no special arguments required there.

4) How does the transparent moon block light from the sun?  Well, FE'ers have already said that there is a shadow object that causes the solar eclipse and it's not the moon.  Even the guy who made the video seems to know this - so why is he asking that?

So, I'm not sure this video is a fair set of complaints - all of them have rational answers within the realms of FET.

Posting it here is offensive to our hosts and doesn't get us anywhere with resolving the deeper questions.

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Offline SexWarrior

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Re: Questions about the Flat Earth Theory and the Eclipses
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2017, 10:07:28 AM »
So, I'm not sure this video is a fair set of complaints - all of them have rational answers within the realms of FET.
CHL has already demonstrated his complete lack of understanding of FET in his "Testing Flattards" series. He has never even gone as far as to read the FAQ, and instead filled the gaps in his understanding with his opinion of what "must" happen if the Earth is flat.
<Parsifal> Jesus Christ
<Parsifal> Do I really have to write 6000-word sentences just to remove all ambiguity from everything I'm saying?

Where live, do the offer adult reading classes?

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Questions about the Flat Earth Theory and the Eclipses
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2017, 12:53:57 PM »
For the first question about eclipses, the eclipses are predicted by finding the patterns where they occur in the sky and predicting when the next pattern will occur. This is how it has been calculated for millennia. In fact, if we go to NASA's Lunar Eclipse Website -> Resources ->  Eclipses and the Soros we will find that NASA is using a method created by the Ancient Babylonians, a society of people who believed that the earth was flat. NASA is using a method created by Flat Earthers. This is the only method NASA describes for finding the eclipse on that website.

Re: Questions about the Flat Earth Theory and the Eclipses
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2017, 01:33:51 PM »
eclipses are predicted by finding the patterns where they occur in the sky and predicting when the next pattern will occur

inorder to "find the pattern" one must first find the "object" and track its path ....
what is this so-called "object" (if not the Earth) that casts its shadow across the face of the Moon ?
been waiting for some solid answers from the FErs .... so far none
btw: ..... if the Moon is self illuminated, then how can a shadow be cast across it ? .... you cannot cast a shadow across a light bulb nor the Sun ..... right ??
in a Lunar Eclipse we are not seeing an "object" .... we are seeing a SHADOW ........... Media hoax blah



btw: what took this photo ? pfft ! I could photoshop (shift/brush across the top) this
« Last Edit: May 19, 2017, 02:44:13 PM by Boodidlie »
The first wave of Matthew 24 end time signs is deception

Re: Questions about the Flat Earth Theory and the Eclipses
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2017, 03:16:06 PM »
Headlines 05-19-2017 = Russia’s ‘Killer Satellites’ Re-Awaken ....
OOppppss !!!! ... someone needs to inform the Russians that Satellites are nothing more than a NASA Media Hoax ..... right ??
« Last Edit: May 19, 2017, 03:44:31 PM by Boodidlie »
The first wave of Matthew 24 end time signs is deception

Offline 3DGeek

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Re: Questions about the Flat Earth Theory and the Eclipses
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2017, 03:45:30 PM »
inorder to "find the pattern" one must first find the "object" and track its path ....
what is this so-called "object" (if not the Earth) that casts its shadow across the face of the Moon ?
been waiting for some solid answers from the FErs .... so far none
Well, we're told there is a "shadow object" out there - a few miles across that causes eclipses by getting between us and the sun/moon.

btw: ..... if the Moon is self illuminated, then how can a shadow be cast across it ? .... you cannot cast a shadow across a light bulb nor the Sun ..... right ??
in a Lunar Eclipse we are not seeing an "object" .... we are seeing a SHADOW ........... Media hoax blah

Well...the only explanation I've *seen* (there may be other explanations) is frankly embarrassing to even mention - it seems that the moon's light is created by luminous "creatures" (fireflies maybe?!) that "migrate" around the moon over the course of a lunar month...thereby causing the phases of the moon.

I'm surprised that the FE'ers don't claim that the same "shadow object" that causes the eclipses doesn't also cause the moon phases...but I've not seen that claimed anywhere.

I think that anyone who's looked at the moon through maybe an 8" or better telescope (I have, on many occasions) and can see the shadows cast by mountains and crater rims on the moon - would rapidly realise that the "luminous creatures" explanation couldn't possibly explain what you can clearly see with your own eyes.  If the terrain were illuminated as explained - there could be no sharp shadows from a consistent direction.

So, unfortunately - I can't get a decent explanation from the FE folks for the moon being both "self illuminated" and having shadows visible upon it.

It will probably be claimed that this photo is photoshopped...but I've seen this kind of thing with my own eyes, through a simple Newtonian Reflector telescope with no fancy electronics or anything of that nature.  So I *KNOW* this to be a true representation:




Re: Questions about the Flat Earth Theory and the Eclipses
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2017, 03:57:52 PM »
If the terrain were illuminated as (FES) explained - there could be no sharp shadows from a consistent direction...

The FES I believe is more Religious than anything Scientific .... as I state in my signature ... deception/s will be the first wave
deceptions in Theology
deceptions in Politics and Ideologies
deceptions in Morality
deceptions in Science ... science falsely so called

Quote
1 Timothy 6:19-21
19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.
20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:
21 Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2017, 04:00:05 PM by Boodidlie »
The first wave of Matthew 24 end time signs is deception

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Offline junker

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Re: Questions about the Flat Earth Theory and the Eclipses
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2017, 04:00:54 PM »
Headlines 05-19-2017 = Russia’s ‘Killer Satellites’ Re-Awaken ....
OOppppss !!!! ... someone needs to inform the Russians that Satellites are nothing more than a NASA Media Hoax ..... right ??

I am really trying to be patient here. Please refrain from off-topic posting. It derails the thread. Normally, you would get a 3-day ban as you have already been warned twice. I will give you one more opportunity to refrain from low-content and/or off-topic posts.
Please make sure to check out these resources to ensure that your time at tfes.org is enjoyable and productive.

1. The Rules

2. The FAQ

3. The Wiki

You're doing God's work, junker.

Re: Questions about the Flat Earth Theory and the Eclipses
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2017, 04:04:53 PM »
Headlines 05-19-2017 = Russia’s ‘Killer Satellites’ Re-Awaken ....
OOppppss !!!! ... someone needs to inform the Russians that Satellites are nothing more than a NASA Media Hoax ..... right ??

I am really trying to be patient here. Please refrain from off-topic posting. It derails the thread. Normally, you would get a 3-day ban as you have already been warned twice. I will give you one more opportunity to refrain from low-content and/or off-topic posts.

I believe no solid answers from the FES derails the thread .... we're really trying to be patient here
The first wave of Matthew 24 end time signs is deception

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Offline junker

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Re: Questions about the Flat Earth Theory and the Eclipses
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2017, 04:10:46 PM »
Headlines 05-19-2017 = Russia’s ‘Killer Satellites’ Re-Awaken ....
OOppppss !!!! ... someone needs to inform the Russians that Satellites are nothing more than a NASA Media Hoax ..... right ??

I am really trying to be patient here. Please refrain from off-topic posting. It derails the thread. Normally, you would get a 3-day ban as you have already been warned twice. I will give you one more opportunity to refrain from low-content and/or off-topic posts.

I believe no solid answers from the FES derails the thread .... we're really trying to be patient here

Alright, have a few days off to review the rules.
Please make sure to check out these resources to ensure that your time at tfes.org is enjoyable and productive.

1. The Rules

2. The FAQ

3. The Wiki

You're doing God's work, junker.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Questions about the Flat Earth Theory and the Eclipses
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2017, 04:28:28 PM »
inorder to "find the pattern" one must first find the "object" and track its path ....

The Lunar Eclipse is a phenomenon which comes in patterns. By studying historical tables of past eclipses it is possible to predict when the next one will occur. This is how Aristotle and the other ancients were able to predict the Lunar Eclipse thousands of years into the future. It is a method of prediction independent of any particular world model or eclipse mechanism.

Offline simba

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Re: Questions about the Flat Earth Theory and the Eclipses
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2017, 07:50:34 PM »
For the first question about eclipses, the eclipses are predicted by finding the patterns where they occur in the sky and predicting when the next pattern will occur. This is how it has been calculated for millennia. In fact, if we go to NASA's Lunar Eclipse Website -> Resources ->  Eclipses and the Soros we will find that NASA is using a method created by the Ancient Babylonians, a society of people who believed that the earth was flat. NASA is using a method created by Flat Earthers. This is the only method NASA describes for finding the eclipse on that website.

Sure, you can predict the "when" part thanks to the babylonians, but what about the "where"?

Offline Oami

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Re: Questions about the Flat Earth Theory and the Eclipses
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2017, 05:05:51 PM »
The movements of the moon and the sun also have patterns. We can analyse those and predict their movement in the future.

Now, wouldn't it be interesting if those patterns actually showed that they are going to collide with each other...

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Offline Rounder

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Re: Questions about the Flat Earth Theory and the Eclipses
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2017, 05:05:24 PM »
For the first question about eclipses, the eclipses are predicted by finding the patterns where they occur in the sky and predicting when the next pattern will occur. This is how it has been calculated for millennia. In fact, if we go to NASA's Lunar Eclipse Website -> Resources ->  Eclipses and the Soros we will find that NASA is using a method created by the Ancient Babylonians, a society of people who believed that the earth was flat. NASA is using a method created by Flat Earthers. This is the only method NASA describes for finding the eclipse on that website.
Lots of things wrong here.
  • You say "...the Ancient Babylonians, a society of people who believed that the earth was flat" but Wikipedia says the opposite: "The only surviving planetary model from among the Chaldean astronomers is that of Seleucus of Seleucia (b. 190 BC), who supported Aristarchus of Samos' heliocentric model."  It may be possible that the uneducated common person of the time believed in a flat earth (if they bothered to think about it at all) but the people who discovered the Saros cycle were not among them.
  • You say "we will find that NASA is using (the Saros cycle) method", but we don't find that they "use" that method to calculate eclipses at all.  There is a lot more going on that merely counting the days from one eclipse in a given Saros cycle to the next.  There is mention of ascending and descending nodes, whether the umbra is passing below the earth, crossing the earth, or passing above the earth, ellipticity of orbits giving different numbers of eclipses for different Saros cycles (all of the above being completely meaningless on a flat earth) plus the distance between moon and earth; all of this requires a whole lot more than just counting the days as the Babylonians would have done.
  • The Saros cycle was discovered by observing the LUNAR eclipse.  It wasn't known to apply to SOLAR eclipses at the time it was discovered.  This is because lunar eclipses are observable for more of the planet's surface than solar eclipses are, so the Babylonians had more data points.
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Offline Rounder

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Re: Questions about the Flat Earth Theory and the Eclipses
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2017, 02:35:38 PM »
Continuing refutation of Tom's "they're using the Babylonian method" idea.  I took from their website the data for all 19th, 20th, and 21st century eclipses and isolated the data for the Saros cycle of the upcoming August 2017 eclipse.  Here is that data:



Notice the 4th column, which gives the difference between consecutive eclipses in this Saros cycle.  If NASA were truly calculating it by simply adding 8 years, 11 days, and 8 hours, then that column would all have the same number in it.  The reason it does not: the Saros cycle is a convenient way to categorize eclipses and to ESTIMATE their timing.  To get timing accurate to the second, and a corresponding geographic accuracy, one must calculate by understanding the orbital ephemeris of the bodies involved.
Proud member of İntikam's "Ignore List"
Ok. You proven you are unworthy to unignored. You proven it was a bad idea to unignore you. and it was for me a disgusting experience...Now you are going to place where you deserved and accustomed.
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You accuse {FE} people of malice where incompetence suffice

Re: Questions about the Flat Earth Theory and the Eclipses
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2017, 03:38:03 PM »
no.  i won't watch something that starts with flattards.
i understand gravity and you don't.
it is simple.
1.  gravitational attraction is simple.
2.  a spinning ball is simple.
3.  beLIEving that gravity can hold air and water on a spinning ball is nonsense.
NO ONE CAN MAKE SENSE OF THESE 2 SIMPLE AND KNOWN FACTS!  So, they say gravity is a mystery.  LOL.

Offline 3DGeek

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Re: Questions about the Flat Earth Theory and the Eclipses
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2017, 04:37:28 PM »
no.  i won't watch something that starts with flattards.

I truly don't blame you - it's unnecessarily insulting.

i understand gravity and you don't.
it is simple.

So could you enlighten us?   I've seen at least three different descriptions of how this phenomena works in FE here - and so far I don't see one that explains the phenomena that are present in the real world.

(Maybe this is the wrong thread for that).

Offline TomInAustin

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Re: Questions about the Flat Earth Theory and the Eclipses
« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2017, 05:57:37 PM »
So, I'm not sure this video is a fair set of complaints - all of them have rational answers within the realms of FET.
CHL has already demonstrated his complete lack of understanding of FET in his "Testing Flattards" series. He has never even gone as far as to read the FAQ, and instead filled the gaps in his understanding with his opinion of what "must" happen if the Earth is flat.

While the man in needlessly insulting, he does make many valid points using geometry in his videos, none of which are discussed in the FAQ.  I would bet he has read it, it only takes a few minutes since it is so lacking in information.  Why is it not updated with questions that are frequently asked?  Who updates it?