New here
« on: May 17, 2017, 11:43:47 PM »
I have a few serious questions.

1.  I have read a quite a few threads and it seems no one will answer even the simplest of questions.  Why? 
2.  What is the reason for hiding the flat earth?  Who profits from hiding such a simple fact and to what end?
3. The Wiki says that NASA is not running a real space program... "The purpose of NASA is to fake the concept of space travel to further America's militaristic dominance of space. That was the purpose of NASA's creation from the very start: To put ICBMs and other weapons into space (or at least appear to)"  Since the Russians were first, they would have known before we did that space travel is not possible and they would have been the ones that we were trying to bluff.   Please explain this logic bust? 

Yes, I have searched and not found any answers.  All I saw were links to other threads that don't provide any answers.

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Offline Roundy

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Re: New here
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2017, 05:26:08 AM »
1. Because the simplest of questions are answered in the wiki.
2. It is not necessarily the case that the perpetrators of the Conspiracy are aware of the Earth's true shape.
3. My opinion is that what was important wasn't the reality of the situation so much as public perception. Clearly both sides were putting on a show in a crazy game of chicken; who would actually have the balls to say that we actually accomplished the seemingly impossible feat of putting a man on the moon first?
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Offline TriangularEarth

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Re: New here
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2017, 01:44:16 PM »
1. Because the simplest of questions are answered in the wiki.
2. It is not necessarily the case that the perpetrators of the Conspiracy are aware of the Earth's true shape.
3. My opinion is that what was important wasn't the reality of the situation so much as public perception. Clearly both sides were putting on a show in a crazy game of chicken; who would actually have the balls to say that we actually accomplished the seemingly impossible feat of putting a man on the moon first?

So the 'space race' between the USSR and USA was only a group of people in each government saying "Should we say we've reached the moon?", "Nah, let's give it another month."

There are so many questions that come from this like they were practically racing to get the next big achievement: get to space, get a man to space, visit the moon, etc. Sputnik 1, the first manmade satellite reached space in 1957. Apollo 11, the first manned landing on the moon, happened 12 years later in 1969. Why the long gap? They were trying to get there as fast as possible, so clearly either side would have waited a few months, launched a rocket and sad "We got there first". It doesn't make any sense!


Offline 3DGeek

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Re: New here
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2017, 02:10:34 PM »
I think the problem goes deeper.

The "space race" argument could possibly explain why the Soviet and American space agencies kept quiet about it - but now we have China and India launching stuff to Mars, the Moon and into orbit...what's stopping them from telling the truth?   Don't you think the Chinese would *LOVE* to embarrass the USA by revealing the FE truth to the world?

There is a deeper problem with the conspiracy idea.

The Germans who built the V2 rocket during WWII would have been the first to discover a problem...NASA didn't exist back then...if the Germans could have won the war by exploiting FE effects - they would have done so.  But the German scientists from that program went on to join either the NASA or Soviet space agencies.

If the Soviets were beaten in the race to the moon - why not simply reveal the flat-earth truth and show that the Americans faked it all?

It's worse even than that - the British were routinely sailing ships around the South Atlantic and the Pacific in the 1700's and 1800's - they would have noticed the discrepancy in distances between what their globes were telling them and the "FE truth" (if it is truth) - and ESPECIALLY because they used celestial navigation - they'd have had to rewritten their navigational handbooks to explain how the FE world works.

The conspiracy would have had to go back to the Spanish, Dutch and British fleets 300 years ago at least.   It's hard to believe that in all that time, nothing would have "leaked" out to reveal the conspiracy.

If you believe that the military could have kept a lid on the secret - what about the whalers?  They often hated the military ships - but they also hunted whales throughout the Southern hemisphere - they'd need the same FE version of celestial mechanics as the Navy - while still telling the world that in their experience, the world was round...so these secrets must have been available to them too.

What about the pirates in the 1600's and 1700's...they'd need to navigate by the stars also...surely those people would not have aligned themselves with the navies of the world to keep this quiet?

It's hard to comprehend how such a conspiracy could have covered such an insanely large number of people for so long.

I'm flying to Australia in a few weeks on a business trip.   I'm going to take a long, hard look at the motion of the stars while I'm there.  First hand information.


Re: New here
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2017, 05:47:27 PM »
1. Because the simplest of questions are answered in the wiki.
2. It is not necessarily the case that the perpetrators of the Conspiracy are aware of the Earth's true shape.
3. My opinion is that what was important wasn't the reality of the situation so much as public perception. Clearly both sides were putting on a show in a crazy game of chicken; who would actually have the balls to say that we actually accomplished the seemingly impossible feat of putting a man on the moon first?

1.  The simplest questions is "why?".  I have yet to see a reason behind millions of people hiding this knowledge and to what gain?  I do not see that in the Wiki or the FAQ
2.  The southern hemisphere long haul argument is a perfect example of how huge the conspiracy would have to be.  Every pilot flying from Sydney to the cape of Africa or South America would know right then that the globe was wrong.
3.  The earth was accepted to be a globe long before anyone tried to shoot a rock into space.  Why the deception?

These are serious points and I would hope for serious answers. Not the standard "look at the wiki".

Why hide it and who gains from this?
« Last Edit: May 18, 2017, 05:49:51 PM by TomInAustin »

Offline 3DGeek

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Re: New here
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2017, 07:47:20 PM »
Certainly some questions are addressed adequately on the Wiki...but others really are not.

I think I've now carefully read all of the pages there...and there is a LOT that's missing.

I'd REALLY like to see an FE star map.  Where are all of the familiar southern constellations on the FE map of the stars?  How do people in the southern hemisphere see the stars when they look toward the south?  Something very odd must be happening.

I'd like some idea of how FE accounts for the fact that there are two tides each day - one when the moon is overhead and the other about 12 hours later.

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Offline Roundy

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Re: New here
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2017, 05:04:59 PM »
If a question isn't covered in the wiki it has a much better chance of being answered. That's why we so strongly encourage checking the wiki before asking the question. Often the proper approach leads to an interesting discussion which is what most of us are really interested in.
Electro-Theologist, Poet, Philosopher, Musician, Etymologist, Egyptologist, Astro-Theologist, Geocentrist, Flat Earther, and Collector of Rare Books.

Re: New here
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2017, 06:49:39 PM »
I have a few serious questions.

1.  I have read a quite a few threads and it seems no one will answer even the simplest of questions.  Why? 
2.  What is the reason for hiding the flat earth?  Who profits from hiding such a simple fact and to what end?
3. The Wiki says that NASA is not running a real space program... "The purpose of NASA is to fake the concept of space travel to further America's militaristic dominance of space. That was the purpose of NASA's creation from the very start: To put ICBMs and other weapons into space (or at least appear to)"  Since the Russians were first, they would have known before we did that space travel is not possible and they would have been the ones that we were trying to bluff.   Please explain this logic bust? 

Yes, I have searched and not found any answers.  All I saw were links to other threads that don't provide any answers.
The answer is simply : The earth is a globe.
This website is for how things would have to be if the earth was flat.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2017, 06:51:42 PM by geckothegeek »
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And You All may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

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Just look out your windows,
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Offline junker

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Re: New here
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2017, 08:02:10 PM »
This website is for how things would have to be if the earth was flat.

No, it isn't. No matter how many times you repeat this, it doesn't change the literal, actual fact that this site is not for that.
Please make sure to check out these resources to ensure that your time at tfes.org is enjoyable and productive.

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Re: New here
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2017, 11:18:25 PM »
This website is for how things would have to be if the earth was flat.

No, it isn't. No matter how many times you repeat this, it doesn't change the literal, actual fact that this site is not for that.

No matter how many times you may say it, you can not change the simple fact that the earth is not some flat disc but it is an "oblate spheroid" or the globe. And this been known for quite some time, so it must be assumed that this website is a repository on how things would have to be if the earth was flat. If you're going to face reality.

But the flat earth ideas do make interesting reading, especially to those who work in the real world.

The old "sinking ship" flat earth idea is one of the most obvious flat earth idea fallacies for just one example. Just ask any one in any Navy if they have ever "restored to view with a telescope a ship which has passed out of view, over and beyond the horizon."

The whole flat earth idea seems to be a denial of reality.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2017, 11:37:14 PM by geckothegeek »
Stick close to your P.C's and never go to sea
And You All may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Yes, Never, Never, Never go to sea
Just look out your windows,
Flat ! Flat ! Flat !
Is all that you shall see !

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Offline junker

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Re: New here
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2017, 06:16:45 AM »
No matter how many times you may say it, you can not change the simple fact that the earth is not some flat disc but it is an "oblate spheroid" or the globe.
Do you have any evidence to support your outlandish claim?

And this been known for quite some time, so it must be assumed that this website is a repository on how things would have to be if the earth was flat.
This is literally a non-sequitur. I am sorry if you don't understand that, but it doesn't change the fact that you are simply wrong about the purpose of this site.

Just ask any one in any Navy if they have ever "restored to view with a telescope a ship which has passed out of view, over and beyond the horizon."
If I ever meet someone from the Navy, I will be sure to ask them. I am not sure how that is remotely relevant, however. Do people in the navy regularly use telescopes?
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Offline SexWarrior

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Re: New here
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2017, 10:27:57 AM »
Hey, look, another thread where gecko uses a lot of words to say "I don't like FE :( :( :("

Does this not fall under low-content posting, bearing in mind the sheer volume of his posts to the exact same effect? Surely his "message" has already been heard, and repeating the same lies over and over does not introduce anything to the site?
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Re: New here
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2017, 05:34:17 PM »
No matter how many times you may say it, you can not change the simple fact that the earth is not some flat disc but it is an "oblate spheroid" or the globe.
Do you have any evidence to support your outlandish claim?

And this been known for quite some time, so it must be assumed that this website is a repository on how things would have to be if the earth was flat.
This is literally a non-sequitur. I am sorry if you don't understand that, but it doesn't change the fact that you are simply wrong about the purpose of this site.

Just ask any one in any Navy if they have ever "restored to view with a telescope a ship which has passed out of view, over and beyond the horizon."
If I ever meet someone from the Navy, I will be sure to ask them. I am not sure how that is remotely relevant, however. Do people in the navy regularly use telescopes?

See  the posts from "SilentService" regarding the use of telescopes in in the Navy. I would suggest you contact a commissioned officer or some petty officer involved in navigation for your questions. "SilentService" would be a good source.

And I served in the Navy and know that the "restoring a ship to view with a telescope" is perhaps one of the greatest fallacy of the flat earth fallacies. If a ship has passed so far that it is no longer visible to the naked eye, you can restore it to view, but only if it has not passed over, or beyond the horizon. Once it has passed over the horizon, it is impossible to restore it to view, This is due to the curvature of the earth. Be sure to ask a specialist. The Navy is highly specialized, especially in the ranks of "specialty ratings " of the petty officers. A "QMC" (QuarterMaster, Chief Petty Officer)  would be the best person in the Navy for you to meet.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2017, 05:49:58 PM by geckothegeek »
Stick close to your P.C's and never go to sea
And You All may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Yes, Never, Never, Never go to sea
Just look out your windows,
Flat ! Flat ! Flat !
Is all that you shall see !

Re: New here
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2017, 05:52:59 PM »
Certainly some questions are addressed adequately on the Wiki...but others really are not.

I think I've now carefully read all of the pages there...and there is a LOT that's missing.

I'd REALLY like to see an FE star map.  Where are all of the familiar southern constellations on the FE map of the stars?  How do people in the southern hemisphere see the stars when they look toward the south?  Something very odd must be happening.

I'd like some idea of how FE accounts for the fact that there are two tides each day - one when the moon is overhead and the other about 12 hours later.

I would really like to see an FE Map, too.
Stick close to your P.C's and never go to sea
And You All may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Yes, Never, Never, Never go to sea
Just look out your windows,
Flat ! Flat ! Flat !
Is all that you shall see !

Offline Oami

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Re: New here
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2017, 06:32:59 PM »
I would really like to see an FE Map, too.

I have seen two flat maps on an another forum. Unfortunately, the two were not alike each other and still they were provided by the very same persion (or a group of persons, that is, the admins of that forum) so I'm not quite aware how it is. Obviously, it is quite hard to even start arguing when you don't even know against what you are arguing.

The clearest difference is in the size and shape of Australia. In both maps, the meridians are straight lines radiating from the north pole with equal angles between them, and the latitudes are perfect equidistant circles with a common centre point (that is, the north pole). It is possible to transform globe coordinates to flat earth coordinates like one to one (and that's how it is done on one map), but when doing so, Australia looks squashed (when compared to globe maps).

On the other map, Australia looks just like it looks on a globe. This however means that its coordinates are not the same: it reaches over less meridians or more latitudes. (Or both, I don't remember exactly.)

I assume that the flat community has a certain system to define meridians and latitudes (otherwise they wouldn't use them in the first place), and maybe that system could be applied to the extreme points of Australia to determine its coordinates. Also, Australia has a network of public roads going through it west to east as well as south to north, so there should be a way to determine, which map is correct (or at least less wrong).
« Last Edit: May 20, 2017, 06:39:58 PM by Oami »

Offline 3DGeek

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Re: New here
« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2017, 09:35:56 PM »
I would really like to see an FE Map, too.

There are plenty of FE land/ocean maps (they don't all agree - but they exist).

What I'm asking for specifically is a map of the stars...with all of the constellations drawn out onto it.

It seems that since polaris would have to be vertically above the North pole of the FE, the constellations in the southern hemisphere would be visible in the northern hemisphere - and you'd be able to see polaris quite easily in (say) Australia.

Clearly that isn't the case - so getting an FE star map would answer a lot of questions...or at least point the way to other questions that should be answered.

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Offline Rounder

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Re: New here
« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2017, 06:43:14 PM »
Just ask any one in any Navy if they have ever "restored to view with a telescope a ship which has passed out of view, over and beyond the horizon."
If I ever meet someone from the Navy, I will be sure to ask them. I am not sure how that is remotely relevant, however. Do people in the navy regularly use telescopes?
Ooh, pick me!  Pick me!

Yes we do, in fact! 

There is a device called a telescopic alidade that is a navigational tool.  As the name implies, it contains a telescope used for picking up landmarks, and a prism in the eyepiece displays the relative bearing (or sometimes the compass heading) to that object across the bottom of the user's field of view.

Here's an example from a ship still in active service, lest you think it's a technique from the past and not the present:

A more obvious telescope: lookouts posted on a high deck use a dual telescope (an instrument known as the "big eyes" to any sailor) all the time.  Big Eyes are a pair of alt-az mounted binoculars with properties better than entry level telescopes.

US Navy example, again from a ship sailing today:


Canadian Navy example:


Civilians do this too. Here's a researcher from NOAA:
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Offline SexWarrior

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Re: New here
« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2017, 08:42:24 PM »
Ooh, pick me!  Pick me!
Hey, look, it's another guy who claims to be in the navy because it suits him in the conversation. We get those so rarely, it's refreshing!
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Re: New here
« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2017, 09:25:51 PM »
Just ask any one in any Navy if they have ever "restored to view with a telescope a ship which has passed out of view, over and beyond the horizon."
If I ever meet someone from the Navy, I will be sure to ask them. I am not sure how that is remotely relevant, however. Do people in the navy regularly use telescopes?
Ooh, pick me!  Pick me!

Yes we do, in fact! 

There is a device called a telescopic alidade that is a navigational tool.  As the name implies, it contains a telescope used for picking up landmarks, and a prism in the eyepiece displays the relative bearing (or sometimes the compass heading) to that object across the bottom of the user's field of view.

Here's an example from a ship still in active service, lest you think it's a technique from the past and not the present:

A more obvious telescope: lookouts posted on a high deck use a dual telescope (an instrument known as the "big eyes" to any sailor) all the time.  Big Eyes are a pair of alt-az mounted binoculars with properties better than entry level telescopes.

US Navy example, again from a ship sailing today:


Canadian Navy example:


Civilians do this too. Here's a researcher from NOAA:


Well....You DID ask a question and you DID get some answers. LOL

Next , ask those sailors if they can do this with those telescopes (Quote) "Restore to view a ship which has passed out of sight and become invisible after it has passed over and beyond the horizon."

Join the Navy and get an education !
Stick close to your P.C's and never go to sea
And You All may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Yes, Never, Never, Never go to sea
Just look out your windows,
Flat ! Flat ! Flat !
Is all that you shall see !

Re: New here
« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2017, 01:52:11 AM »
If a question isn't covered in the wiki it has a much better chance of being answered. That's why we so strongly encourage checking the wiki before asking the question. Often the proper approach leads to an interesting discussion which is what most of us are really interested in.

I read the wiki and it did not answer the question of "why would anyone cover up the fact that the earth is flat and who gains".   If it other than Nasa, I missed it.  Please be so kind as to provide a quote.