Inside a Chinese iPhone factory
« on: April 12, 2017, 09:54:50 AM »
http://www.businessinsider.com/qa-with-an-iphone-factory-worker-at-pegatron-changshuo-in-shanghai-2017-4?r=US&IR=T&IR=T

A nifty interview with an NYU student who spent 6 months at a factory in China.  Kinda throws out the whole "bring jobs back to America" thing.  I mean, $450 a month salary to put a single screw into a phone.  Not only is that never going to be acceptable in America but it would be done by a machine anyway since a machine is cheaper than American labor.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Inside a Chinese iPhone factory
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2017, 02:12:28 PM »
How much is $450 a month compared to the local economy?

Re: Inside a Chinese iPhone factory
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2017, 03:14:25 PM »
How much is $450 a month compared to the local economy?
$450 is about 3,100 yuan.
Poor cafeteria food is 10 yuan.
At 10 yuan a day x3 a day its about 900 yuan a month or almost 1/3 their income.




But here.
https://www.priceoftravel.com/92/china/shanghai-prices?1492009971




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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Inside a Chinese iPhone factory
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2017, 03:58:44 PM »
How much is $450 a month compared to the local economy?
$450 is about 3,100 yuan.
Poor cafeteria food is 10 yuan.
At 10 yuan a day x3 a day its about 900 yuan a month or almost 1/3 their income.

But here.
https://www.priceoftravel.com/92/china/shanghai-prices?1492009971

In the article it says that there were two meals in the cafeteria, 5 yaun and 8 yaun meals. So living on the cheap, 5 yaun meals 3x a day, food would be 450 yaun a month, which is less than 1/6th --closer to 1/7th-- of their 3100 yaun income.

This site recommends budgeting 14% of your income to food. So it seems spot on.

It doesn't appear that those factories are charging for housing (which you should budget 25% - 30% for), and there are no transportation costs (12%). It might be that those people are doing pretty well living there, and actually have 37 - 42% more discretionary income than other unskilled labor jobs in China which pay a similar wage.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2017, 06:02:14 PM by Tom Bishop »

Re: Inside a Chinese iPhone factory
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2017, 04:09:45 PM »
How much is $450 a month compared to the local economy?
$450 is about 3,100 yuan.
Poor cafeteria food is 10 yuan.
At 10 yuan a day x3 a day its about 900 yuan a month or almost 1/3 their income.

But here.
https://www.priceoftravel.com/92/china/shanghai-prices?1492009971

In the article it says that there were two meals in the cafeteria, 5 yaun and 8 yaun meals. So living on the cheap, 5 yaun meals 3x a day, food would be 450 yaun a month, which is less than 1/6th --closer to 1/7th-- of their 3100 yaun income.

This site recommends budgeting 14% of your income to food. So it seems spot on.

It doesn't appear that those factories are charging for housing (which you should budget 25% - 30% for), and there are no transportation costs (12%). It might be that those people are doing pretty well living there, and actually have 37 - 42% more discretionary income than other unskilled labor jobs in China which pay a similar 3100 yaun a month.
Yeah.  No housing costs is nice and yes, cheap food.  And you're right, I forgot about the 5 yuan meals in the article.
Regardless, the food outside of that cafeteria is more expensive.  A big Mac at McDonalds is like 14 Yuan, I think.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Inside a Chinese iPhone factory
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2017, 05:56:04 PM »
Yeah.  No housing costs is nice and yes, cheap food.  And you're right, I forgot about the 5 yuan meals in the article.
Regardless, the food outside of that cafeteria is more expensive.  A big Mac at McDonalds is like 14 Yuan, I think.

I wish that I had 40% more discretionary income.

Live in a factory during the week, and live like a king on the weekends.  I don't see where the problem is.

Re: Inside a Chinese iPhone factory
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2017, 08:20:54 PM »
Yeah.  No housing costs is nice and yes, cheap food.  And you're right, I forgot about the 5 yuan meals in the article.
Regardless, the food outside of that cafeteria is more expensive.  A big Mac at McDonalds is like 14 Yuan, I think.

I wish that I had 40% more discretionary income.

Live in a factory during the week, and live like a king on the weekends.  I don't see where the problem is.

Live like a king?
Did you read the article?

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Inside a Chinese iPhone factory
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2017, 09:49:26 PM »
Yeah.  No housing costs is nice and yes, cheap food.  And you're right, I forgot about the 5 yuan meals in the article.
Regardless, the food outside of that cafeteria is more expensive.  A big Mac at McDonalds is like 14 Yuan, I think.

I wish that I had 40% more discretionary income.

Live in a factory during the week, and live like a king on the weekends.  I don't see where the problem is.

Live like a king?
Did you read the article?

Yes.

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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Inside a Chinese iPhone factory
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2017, 11:58:40 PM »
Oh. This was supposed to be an anti-Trump thread. I thought that you cared about the iPhone sweatshop workers. My mistake.

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Offline junker

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Inside a Chinese iPhone factory
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2017, 12:46:49 AM »
Oh. This was supposed to be an anti-Trump thread. I thought that you cared about the iPhone sweatshop workers. My mistake.

Tom, you know no one here actually cares about high volume electronics manufacturer grunt workers. You also know they won't let a good headline sneak past the narrative.

Nothing has changed with Foxconn or Pegatron since the last time something like this was posted. You and I disagree on a lot of social topics, but occasionally find common ground. In this particular instance, I think we mostly agree. Many workers are unhappy with the conditions in these Chinese electronics manufacturing plants. Many of them also acknowledge it is one of the best opportunities available. I suggest the knee jerkers do a bit of research and see what opportunities are afforded to those who grind it out in these types of places. Of course it is terrible to American standards, but who are we to judge how others make their way?

Alright, I'm off my soapbox. Apple is still looking to move iPhone manufacturing to the states, although it will certainly even more automated than in China. I'm actually not sure what the purpose of this thread was.
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Re: Inside a Chinese iPhone factory
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2017, 04:56:28 AM »
The purpose of this thread was...


Cause I read an article I liked and shared it.


That's all.

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Re: Inside a Chinese iPhone factory
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2017, 07:55:03 PM »
The easiest way to bring jobs back to America is the following: Pass a law that says you are welcome to make your product wherever you like. But, if the owner of the company lives in say, San Diego, he required to pay EVERY employee the minimum wage and benefits that the State of California and County of San Diego require by law. If the company goes public, then the same applies with the majority stockholders. If they attempt to move out of the USA, their citizenship is permanently revoked, and the requirement maintained. Simple solution. It would cost these people so much money to pay their employees and ship the product back here that no one would be able to pay for it,  given the price they would have to charge for it. They would start making stuff here just to be able to sell it at a price people could afford.

Re: Inside a Chinese iPhone factory
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2017, 07:02:05 AM »
The easiest way to bring jobs back to America is the following: Pass a law that says you are welcome to make your product wherever you like. But, if the owner of the company lives in say, San Diego, he required to pay EVERY employee the minimum wage and benefits that the State of California and County of San Diego require by law. If the company goes public, then the same applies with the majority stockholders. If they attempt to move out of the USA, their citizenship is permanently revoked, and the requirement maintained. Simple solution. It would cost these people so much money to pay their employees and ship the product back here that no one would be able to pay for it,  given the price they would have to charge for it. They would start making stuff here just to be able to sell it at a price people could afford.
And they'd have robots do it so the actual jobs would be trivial.

Re: Inside a Chinese iPhone factory
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2017, 05:39:10 PM »
The easiest way to bring jobs back to America is the following: Pass a law that says you are welcome to make your product wherever you like. But, if the owner of the company lives in say, San Diego, he required to pay EVERY employee the minimum wage and benefits that the State of California and County of San Diego require by law. If the company goes public, then the same applies with the majority stockholders. If they attempt to move out of the USA, their citizenship is permanently revoked, and the requirement maintained. Simple solution. It would cost these people so much money to pay their employees and ship the product back here that no one would be able to pay for it,  given the price they would have to charge for it. They would start making stuff here just to be able to sell it at a price people could afford.

Wouldn't this just make people move away from the US then? Don't do business in the US because of their restrictive outsourcing laws?

Poseidon

Re: Inside a Chinese iPhone factory
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2017, 06:25:45 PM »
The easiest way to bring jobs back to America is the following: Pass a law that says you are welcome to make your product wherever you like. But, if the owner of the company lives in say, San Diego, he required to pay EVERY employee the minimum wage and benefits that the State of California and County of San Diego require by law. If the company goes public, then the same applies with the majority stockholders. If they attempt to move out of the USA, their citizenship is permanently revoked, and the requirement maintained. Simple solution. It would cost these people so much money to pay their employees and ship the product back here that no one would be able to pay for it,  given the price they would have to charge for it. They would start making stuff here just to be able to sell it at a price people could afford.

Wouldn't this just make people move away from the US then? Don't do business in the US because of their restrictive outsourcing laws?

They can do that if they want to lose their citizenship and never be permitted to return or sell their product here.

Re: Inside a Chinese iPhone factory
« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2017, 06:37:41 PM »
They can do that if they want to lose their citizenship and never be permitted to return or sell their product here.

Does this mean that there would be no importing at all? Or is it rather that people who move away from the US can never sell to this market ever again? How would you even enforce that?

Poseidon

Re: Inside a Chinese iPhone factory
« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2017, 06:42:41 PM »
They can do that if they want to lose their citizenship and never be permitted to return or sell their product here.

Does this mean that there would be no importing at all? Or is it rather that people who move away from the US can never sell to this market ever again? How would you even enforce that?

It would mean the latter. And enforcing it would be fairly easy. I have no problem with importing things. I have a problem with AMERICANS making us import AMERICAN products.

Re: Inside a Chinese iPhone factory
« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2017, 07:23:22 PM »
They can do that if they want to lose their citizenship and never be permitted to return or sell their product here.

Does this mean that there would be no importing at all? Or is it rather that people who move away from the US can never sell to this market ever again? How would you even enforce that?

It would mean the latter. And enforcing it would be fairly easy. I have no problem with importing things. I have a problem with AMERICANS making us import AMERICAN products.
If it's an import, it's not an American product.
You can't import something your country made.


Simple solution.
They sell the company, move out of the country, then buy it back again.  Or don't bother to start a company in the US in the first place.  I know I wouldn't.

Also, you seem to forget a lot of important facts.
1. Not all locations have enough people to do said jobs.  Let's say you manufacture CPUs so you need people who are skilled and can work in a clean room.  Where do you find enough skilled labor to do those jobs?  If you setup a factory in Oklahoma, you need enough people to fill it and just because you have no job, doesn't mean you can or will do THAT job.  You seem to think that Americans will just jump at any job within a 100 mile radius.  But that's not how it works.  An accountant can't become a construction worker just because it's available.

2. Money is not a 1:1 conversion.  Cost of living is radically different.  Hell, even per state.  Even INSIDE a state.  NYC cost of living is vastly higher than upstate New York.  Which is higher than North Carolina.  So pay varies.  Taxes vary.  The same occurs for other nations.  So you can't just say "minimum wage here vs there" because they don't equate.  Sometimes it'll be too little, so you're making said country happy to lower their cost.  Other times it's the kind of money you make a year, not in an hour.

3. Supply doesn't work so well.  Raw materials still need to be imported.