Religion on Flat Earth
« on: April 03, 2017, 04:07:50 PM »
I was amazed. I was never thinking of Earth being flat. I was never thinking of an existing God. I never thought that we all do have a purpose on this planet... but one night it hit me. I got struck by the willingness to find out more about life and more about everything. I wasn't going to accept the idea that after my death.. i just shall not exist anymore. I searched all religions and whatever i was coming across, would be in conflict with the science which I have learnt in school. I came across those verses in the Bible : 1 Chronicles 16:30: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable.”
Psalm 93:1: “Thou hast fixed the earth immovable and firm ...”
Psalm 96:10: “He has fixed the earth firm, immovable ...”
Psalm 104:5: “Thou didst fix the earth on its foundation so that it never can be shaken.”
Isaiah 45:18: “...who made the earth and fashioned it, and himself fixed it fast...”   
and those verses in the Quran : Qur'an 15:19: And the earth We have spread out (like a carpet); set thereon mountains firm and immovable; and produced therein all kinds of things in due balance.

Qur'an 20:53: He Who has, made for you the earth like a carpet spread out; has enabled you to go about therein by roads (and channels); and has sent down water from the sky." With it have We produced diverse pairs of plants each separate from the others.

Qur'an 43:10: (Yea, the same that) has made for you the earth (like a carpet) spread out, and has made for you roads (and channels) therein, in order that ye may find guidance (on the way)

Qur'an 50:7: And the earth- We have spread it out, and set thereon mountains standing firm, and produced therein every kind of beautiful growth (in pairs)-

Qur'an 51:48: And We have spread out the (spacious) earth: How excellently We do spread out!

Qur'an 71:19: And Allah has made the earth for you as a carpet (spread out),

Qur'an 78:6: Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse,

Qur'an 79:30: Literal: And the earth/Planet Earth after that He blew and stretched/spread it.

Qur'an 88:20: and at the Earth, how it is spread out?

Qur'an 91:6: By the Earth and its (wide) expanse

Qur'an 2:22: Who has made the earth your couch, and the heavens your canopy; and sent down rain from the heavens; and brought forth therewith Fruits for your sustenance; then set not up rivals unto Allah when ye know (the truth).

Qur'an 18:86: Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness."

Qur'an 18:47: One Day We shall remove the mountains, and thou wilt see the earth as a level stretch, and We shall gather them, all together, nor shall We leave out any one of them.

Qur'an 2:144: We have seen the turning of thy face to heaven (for guidance, O Muhammad). And now verily We shall make thee turn (in prayer) toward a qiblah which is dear to thee. So turn thy face toward the Inviolable Place of Worship, and ye (O Muslims), wheresoever ye may be, turn your faces (when ye pray) toward it. Lo! Those who have received the Scripture know that (this revelation) is the Truth from their Lord. And Allah is not unaware of what they do.

Qur'an 55:17: (He is) Lord of the two Easts and Lord of the two Wests


Which were against the Globe Earth... And realized that all verses of those religious books make a lot more sense when you think about Earth as being flat... not Globe... And thought to myself... why would they hide this... why would the 1% who control the governments... hide the truth. I made the connection that by hiding God, they indeed would remain in power... they do have to make us feel worthless and like a grain of sand in a universal desert... by doing so... we don't need to seek any truth (the existence of a Creator) because.. if everyone has a God... The government wouldn't work the same as now... Everything would go down for them. Nevertheless that is another topic not to go through now.

Where I want to get to is the question whether "flat-earth automatically calls for believing in God as the creator or not?."
« Last Edit: April 03, 2017, 04:11:14 PM by SamiAlsaggaf97 »

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Offline Roundy

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Re: Religion on Flat Earth
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2017, 08:31:50 PM »
No, it does not.
Electro-Theologist, Poet, Philosopher, Musician, Etymologist, Egyptologist, Astro-Theologist, Geocentrist, Flat Earther, and Collector of Rare Books.

Re: Religion on Flat Earth
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2017, 03:54:25 PM »
For me, it makes more sense. If only for the fact that flat earth puts you back at the center of creation, while "round" earth theory posits you on an insignificant speck in an inexplicably vast universe.

Re: Religion on Flat Earth
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2017, 08:45:04 PM »
For me, it makes more sense. If only for the fact that flat earth puts you back at the center of creation, while "round" earth theory posits you on an insignificant speck in an inexplicably vast universe.
Ok, I'll bite.

If the earth is the center of creation, what is the point of us being here exactly?
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Offline Flatout

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Re: Religion on Flat Earth
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2017, 02:25:19 AM »
For me, it makes more sense. If only for the fact that flat earth puts you back at the center of creation, while "round" earth theory posits you on an insignificant speck in an inexplicably vast universe.
Mankind always likes to put himself in the center of everything.  How is that religious?  That is just human nature.   Who doesn't try and do that?  Isn't that the origin of sin?

I think a more divine understanding is that we revolve around something greater than ourselves.  That centrality of God represents the light of life and we reflect it.   
« Last Edit: April 06, 2017, 03:20:37 AM by Flatout »

Offline Rekt

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Re: Religion on Flat Earth
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2017, 12:33:41 PM »
Those passages do not have anything to do with the shape of the Earth. They are metaphorical, representing that the Earth, at least at that time, was seen as a huge, immovable, and solid object.

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Offline Jura-Glenlivet

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Re: Religion on Flat Earth
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2017, 01:23:29 PM »
For me, it makes more sense. If only for the fact that flat earth puts you back at the center of creation, while "round" earth theory posits you on an insignificant speck in an inexplicably vast universe.
Mankind always likes to put himself in the center of everything.  How is that religious?  That is just human nature.   Who doesn't try and do that?  Isn't that the origin of sin?

I think a more divine understanding is that we revolve around something greater than ourselves.  That centrality of God represents the light of life and we reflect it.

Or religion is ancient man’s attempt to make sense of a universe, science has gradually taken up the slack, so we no longer believe a god rides through the sky to make thunder or the vault of the heavens is a dead giants skull, but people still cling to it to stop themselves (TTIOH rightly), feeling insignificant.

As Christopher Hitchens has said “If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in a quite different world”
Just to be clear, you are all terrific, but everything you say is exactly what a moron would say.

No one infers a god from the simple, from the known, from what is understood, but from the complex, the unknown, and the incomprehensible. Our ignorance is God; what we know is science. Robert Green Ingersoll

Re: Religion on Flat Earth
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2017, 07:25:28 PM »
For me, it makes more sense. If only for the fact that flat earth puts you back at the center of creation, while "round" earth theory posits you on an insignificant speck in an inexplicably vast universe.
Ok, I'll bite.

If the earth is the center of creation, what is the point of us being here exactly?

Good question. Physical existence could be some kind of filter you must pass through to refine your energies to be more in tune with the creator.

If you view the creator as a "source" or "singularity" that your soul or spirit, or whatever you want to call it, seeks to exists in harmony with- it would make sense to have to resolve any discord before you would be able to reconnect with it.

We know everything that exists is a frequency. We know that there is so much about the electromagnetic spectrum we don't know or understand. In my mind, it is more realistic to me that existence is layered into many fabrics, with multiple dimensions existing simultaneous as one. I don't think of God as someone in the clouds, or somewhere in outer space. It is more likely to me that if there are alien beings (ufos, angels, demons etc) they exist in a different spectrum, rather than on a separate, absurdly distant speck of dust. Would it take more energy to slip into a different frequency, or to traverse the entire universe?

For the record, I don't feel insignificant either way. If the earth is round, flat, the center of the universe, or just a speck in an impossibly vast universe. I still believe in a divine energy that animates us, and differentiates us from an identical conglomeration of inanimate molecules.

I think a more divine understanding is that we revolve around something greater than ourselves.  That centrality of God represents the light of life and we reflect it.   

I agree. But that isn't the mainstream thought process. That dictates that our existence is a mere coincidence, as statistically impossible as it would be, and there is no real explanation for the sudden appearance of life and the universe.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2017, 07:27:11 PM by TheTruthIsOnHere »

Re: Religion on Flat Earth
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2017, 08:03:00 PM »
For me, it makes more sense. If only for the fact that flat earth puts you back at the center of creation, while "round" earth theory posits you on an insignificant speck in an inexplicably vast universe.
Ok, I'll bite.

If the earth is the center of creation, what is the point of us being here exactly?

Good question. Physical existence could be some kind of filter you must pass through to refine your energies to be more in tune with the creator.

If you view the creator as a "source" or "singularity" that your soul or spirit, or whatever you want to call it, seeks to exists in harmony with- it would make sense to have to resolve any discord before you would be able to reconnect with it.

We know everything that exists is a frequency. We know that there is so much about the electromagnetic spectrum we don't know or understand. In my mind, it is more realistic to me that existence is layered into many fabrics, with multiple dimensions existing simultaneous as one. I don't think of God as someone in the clouds, or somewhere in outer space. It is more likely to me that if there are alien beings (ufos, angels, demons etc) they exist in a different spectrum, rather than on a separate, absurdly distant speck of dust. Would it take more energy to slip into a different frequency, or to traverse the entire universe?

For the record, I don't feel insignificant either way. If the earth is round, flat, the center of the universe, or just a speck in an impossibly vast universe. I still believe in a divine energy that animates us, and differentiates us from an identical conglomeration of inanimate molecules.

I think a more divine understanding is that we revolve around something greater than ourselves.  That centrality of God represents the light of life and we reflect it.   

I agree. But that isn't the mainstream thought process. That dictates that our existence is a mere coincidence, as statistically impossible as it would be, and there is no real explanation for the sudden appearance of life and the universe.
So if I understand you correctly, if there is a point with our existence, our existence only matter if we assume there is a God or otherwise believe in something divine?

Without saying life has no significance (we're communicating right now, you and I, that's significant), the thought that there's absolutely no reason we exist, but that we're merely the result of a series of chemical coincidences, and that in our gigantic expanding universe is the possibility that life emerged and is thriving in one form or another on other celestial bodies by the thousands, or millions, is far fetched?

Because if I don't believe in a God or anything divine, but submit to science and the discoveries we continuously make about our universe, that these results aren't a hoax, that the earth is in fact a globe, there's a high probability this is the case. To reiterate over a previous point, I hope we've made mistakes about what gravity is. The theory is not perfect, in the sense that we don't know what causes the attraction other than mass. A discovery in that area that perfectly explains what gravity is even though it requires that we change any explanation about gravity we have as of now.. Well, I hope it will happen.

It doesn't change the shape of the earth though. My question is merely philosophical.
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Offline Roundy

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Re: Religion on Flat Earth
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2017, 01:19:50 AM »
in our gigantic expanding universe is the possibility that life emerged and is thriving in one form or another on other celestial bodies by the thousands, or millions, is far fetched?

Because if I don't believe in a God or anything divine, but submit to science and the discoveries we continuously make about our universe, that these results aren't a hoax, that the earth is in fact a globe, there's a high probability this is the case.

This seems like a bold assertion to me.  Can you show the math that leads to this conclusion?
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Re: Religion on Flat Earth
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2017, 11:46:21 AM »
Well, in this book there's a reply to that question as well :
1. Did you then think that We created you in vain, and that you would not be returned to us?

The Holy Quran 23:115

2. And I created not the jinn and mankind except that they should worship Me (Alone).

The Holy Quran 51:56

The purpose of our life is the worship our Creator in the many ways there are to worship Him (prayer, helping others, seeking knowledge, etc.).

3. …Who has created life and death so that He may try you which of you are best in deeds…

The Holy Quran 67:2

Who will do the best works for the sake of Him?

4. And We have not created the heaven and earth and what is between them in vain. That is the opinion of those who disbelieve. And woe to such disbelievers, because of the Fire. Shall we treat those who believe and do good deeds as those who spread corruption on the earth? Or shall we treat the pious as sinners?

The Holy Quran 38:27-8

The believers will not face the same afterlife as the corrupters. The pious will not be treated the same as sinners.

5. And among the people there is he who sells himself for the pleasure of Allah, and Allah is kind to His worshippers.

The Holy Quran 2:207

The pleasure of Allah should be our goal.

6. There has come to you from God a light and a luminous Book, through which God, by His grace, guides all who seek His good pleasure on the path of peace, and brings them out of the depths of darkness into light and guides them unto a Straight Path.

Re: Religion on Flat Earth
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2017, 12:22:12 PM »
I'm not asking what's the purpose of God's existence would be (being worshipped). If earth is put here on purpose, and there is a creator, what is our purpose exactly?
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Re: Religion on Flat Earth
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2017, 07:58:01 PM »
Well our purpose in life is not to be deceived by those in power to deceive us and hide God from us. It is a battle of the unseen, a spiritual one... and the ultimate goal is for us to realise there is a God and once we do, to worship Him until death. And then be happy by passing this test... by overcoming our desires and this material world.

Re: Religion on Flat Earth
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2017, 08:46:16 AM »
Well our purpose in life is not to be deceived by those in power to deceive us and hide God from us. It is a battle of the unseen, a spiritual one... and the ultimate goal is for us to realise there is a God and once we do, to worship Him until death. And then be happy by passing this test... by overcoming our desires and this material world.
That makes no sense. If we're created only to worship our creator, our creator is a narcissistic prick. Which of the ~4200 dieties are we talking about here?

Yeah, I'll go with the version that actually makes sense, that there's no real purpose of us being here, and that it's merely a coincidence we came to existence.
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Re: Religion on Flat Earth
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2017, 03:20:23 PM »
He's not.. If you do worship Him this life, then you will attain an eternal life in heaven.. rather than hell. He created us to see who's the best in deeds. And the best ones have the chance to be there... I know it sounds like a fairy tale due to the society we were born in and this age... but if you were to go few hundred years back.. If you were not worshipping God.. you would still worship a stick stone or cow.. or in extreme cases believe that you yourself are God as some other people back then used to.

Re: Religion on Flat Earth
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2017, 05:17:10 PM »
He's not.. If you do worship Him this life, then you will attain an eternal life in heaven.. rather than hell. He created us to see who's the best in deeds. And the best ones have the chance to be there... I know it sounds like a fairy tale due to the society we were born in and this age... but if you were to go few hundred years back.. If you were not worshipping God.. you would still worship a stick stone or cow.. or in extreme cases believe that you yourself are God as some other people back then used to.
And the purpose of eternal life in heaven would be?

This is about religion and flat earth, it's not only about religion. Why create an earth as a test for people to earn their right to live forever in heaven? And what does all that have to do with the shape of the earth? What's the purpose?

The more you think of it, the less the existence of a creator makes sense. I'm in no way religious and I never will be, just for the record.
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Offline SexWarrior

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Re: Religion on Flat Earth
« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2017, 06:55:42 PM »
If earth is put here on purpose, and there is a creator, what is our purpose exactly?
Why do you think this would be known, or even knowable?
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Offline Jura-Glenlivet

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Re: Religion on Flat Earth
« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2017, 08:13:24 PM »

So why should we bother?
Just to be clear, you are all terrific, but everything you say is exactly what a moron would say.

No one infers a god from the simple, from the known, from what is understood, but from the complex, the unknown, and the incomprehensible. Our ignorance is God; what we know is science. Robert Green Ingersoll

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Offline SexWarrior

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Re: Religion on Flat Earth
« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2017, 12:40:36 AM »
So why should we bother?
Personally, I don't think we should. But, in the very unlikely event that there is a deity, I don't think he'd be telling us what his plan is.
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<Parsifal> Do I really have to write 6000-word sentences just to remove all ambiguity from everything I'm saying?

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Re: Religion on Flat Earth
« Reply #19 on: April 10, 2017, 05:03:14 AM »
I am a religious man, though certainly not to the extreme that I was at 24, when I entered a monastery to be a monk and priest. I am LCMS Lutheran now, which admittedly is Confessional Lutheran and quite conservative. Richard Dawkins is, to put it mildly, a 'tard. I have read his crap,  and that is precisely what it is, is crap. But I do know reasonably intelligent atheists. He just isn't one of them.

But no, believing in the flat earth (I don't) does NOT require a belief in a Divinity. Granted, men such as Rowbotham and Gleason DID believe,  and used the Bible to help make their case, just as Muslims do with the Qur'an. But there are plenty (in fact, probably a bit of a majority) both here and at the OTHER Flat Earth site that are atheistic and still believe in Flat Earth.