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Re: Trump
« Reply #1560 on: May 27, 2017, 01:40:27 PM »
Oh, diddums, are you still upset about your conspiwacy theowy not being all that popular?

b-but the emails guys right haha? right? the emails thing justifies my bush-did-9/11-level stuff somehow yes???

I can't argue with this logical, well-reasoned takedown.

Tell me, do you have any context behind Trump's interaction or are you operating on instinct here?

All Spicer and Markovic have offered for context is that it was a group photo and Trump's assigned position was in the front. Combined with the video showing Trump not taking the time to spare even a glance at Markovic, but instead hilariously thrusting out his chin and tugging on his suit before addressing someone else, this strongly indicates that there's nothing more to this than Trump's usual obnoxious behavior. You're right that it's nothing new for him, but it's not something I'm willing to turn a blind eye to.
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Offline Roundy

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Re: Trump
« Reply #1561 on: May 27, 2017, 01:45:43 PM »
Guys shoving another world leader is no big deal. I mean it was just the prime minister of Montenegro, it's not like he punched Angela Merkel or anything. You need to put it in perspective.
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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #1562 on: May 27, 2017, 02:08:22 PM »
Guys shoving another world leader is no big deal. I mean it was just the prime minister of Montenegro, it's not like he punched Angela Merkel or anything. You need to put it in perspective.
Nah.
He'll grab her by the pussy.
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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Trump
« Reply #1563 on: May 27, 2017, 02:25:23 PM »
I can't argue with this logical, well-reasoned takedown.
There's nothing to take down - that's the entire point. By your own admission, you subscribe to a conspiracy theory which, at this point, does not have any evidence to support it. It's also based on online memes. Meme-conspiracy is just a useful shorthand for it.

Until the situation changes (either your views adjust to the evidence available to date, or evidence emerges which yields your ideas some credence), I'll keep laughing at you for pursuing the left-wing equivalent of Pizzagate.
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Re: Trump
« Reply #1564 on: May 27, 2017, 02:46:18 PM »
Oh, diddums, are you still upset about your conspiwacy theowy not being all that popular?

b-but the emails guys right haha? right? the emails thing justifies my bush-did-9/11-level stuff somehow yes???

I can't argue with this logical, well-reasoned takedown.

Tell me, do you have any context behind Trump's interaction or are you operating on instinct here?

All Spicer and Markovic have offered for context is that it was a group photo and Trump's assigned position was in the front. Combined with the video showing Trump not taking the time to spare even a glance at Markovic, but instead hilariously thrusting out his chin and tugging on his suit before addressing someone else, this strongly indicates that there's nothing more to this than Trump's usual obnoxious behavior. You're right that it's nothing new for him, but it's not something I'm willing to turn a blind eye to.

What in saying is, you have no idea if the PM of Montenegro in any way contributed to this, or if it was an inside joke or if Trump was truly being a douchebag. Instead of focusing on important shit, like the content of the meeting, you are not-picking body language that could play out in a number of ways, some of them potentially positive. Some cultures admire and respect shows of strength, some don't and you can't be sure if this is a net negative or positive. So this just joins the ever-present chorus of ineffective criticism that makes criticism of Trump easier and easier to tune out.

It reminds me of when Trudeau was criticized as being toxic masculine for pulling his MP through a barricade of opposition MPs. People ignored the childish and unethical delay of parliamentary business in favor of a mostly inconsequential physical action. Personally I care way more how Trump deals with international policy than if he wasn't super polite in a photo op.

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Re: Trump
« Reply #1565 on: May 27, 2017, 05:00:37 PM »
I can't argue with this logical, well-reasoned takedown.
There's nothing to take down - that's the entire point. By your own admission, you subscribe to a conspiracy theory which, at this point, does not have any evidence to support it. It's also based on online memes. Meme-conspiracy is just a useful shorthand for it.

Until the situation changes (either your views adjust to the evidence available to date, or evidence emerges which yields your ideas some credence), I'll keep laughing at you for pursuing the left-wing equivalent of Pizzagate.

It's an ongoing investigation based on the multiple undisclosed contacts between Russian and members of Trump's campaign/administration, compounded by Trump's many lies and efforts at obstruction. That's more than enough to warrant an investigation - which you apparently agree should happen, an idea that seems somewhat at odds with your belief that it's all nonsense. If you disagree with what I'm saying, then actually rebut me. Explain what it is I've said that's wrong and point out what's right. Just repeating the word "meme" doesn't help anybody.

What in saying is, you have no idea if the PM of Montenegro in any way contributed to this, or if it was an inside joke or if Trump was truly being a douchebag. Instead of focusing on important shit, like the content of the meeting, you are not-picking body language that could play out in a number of ways, some of them potentially positive. Some cultures admire and respect shows of strength, some don't and you can't be sure if this is a net negative or positive. So this just joins the ever-present chorus of ineffective criticism that makes criticism of Trump easier and easier to tune out.

My first instinct was to respond to this with something along the lines of "lol," but being mindful of what I just said above, I'll use facts rather than ridicule. No, I don't believe that this was any kind of friendly or cultural gesture, because if it was, Markovic would logically have pointed that out rather than just dismissing it as not being a big deal.

Quote
Personally I care way more how Trump deals with international policy than if he wasn't super polite in a photo op.

Then you're holding him to a shockingly low standard, one that's only going to get lower as his term continues. You wouldn't tolerate someone you barely knew doing this to you, yet you've managed to convince yourself that it's okay when the president does it to another head of state.
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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Trump
« Reply #1566 on: May 27, 2017, 05:56:48 PM »
It's an ongoing investigation based on the multiple undisclosed contacts between Russian and members of Trump's campaign/administration, compounded by Trump's many lies and efforts at obstruction. That's more than enough to warrant an investigation - which you apparently agree should happen
Correct.

an idea that seems somewhat at odds with your belief that it's all nonsense.
No, your beliefs are nonsense. They also have diddly squat to do with the investigation.

If you disagree with what I'm saying, then actually rebut me. Explain what it is I've said that's wrong and point out what's right. Just repeating the word "meme" doesn't help anybody.
We've gone through this at great length. I believe I've responded to most your posts where you've invoked the meme-conspiracy or the "b-b-b-but the emails" meme. On other occasions, Rushy tried and I didn't chime in because I didn't have much to add. We've tried reasoning with you, but you were having none of it, much as you would expect from a die-hard conspiracy theorist.

dismissing it as not being a big deal.
Right, so the very "victim" here is saying that he didn't even register it. A crowd was moving, one person in that crowd happened to walk past another person. An everyday occurrence, I'm sure you'll agreeHOLY SHIT THIS IS AN OUTRAGE IMPEACH TRUMP NOW!!!

You wouldn't tolerate someone you barely knew doing this to you
Go to Times Square and take a 10 minute walk. Then, slow down a little bit so that you're moving slower than the crowd. I look forward to you not getting shoved or slightly forcefully passed by anyone at all. No siree Bob, that would never happen.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2017, 05:59:32 PM by SexWarrior »
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Re: Trump
« Reply #1567 on: May 27, 2017, 05:57:52 PM »
My first instinct was to respond to this with something along the lines of "lol," but being mindful of what I just said above, I'll use facts rather than ridicule. No, I don't believe that this was any kind of friendly or cultural gesture, because if it was, Markovic would logically have pointed that out rather than just dismissing it as not being a big deal.

Why is dismissing indicative of your belief and not mine?  Maybe he dismissed it because it's not a big deal?  That could also be logically viable.

Quote
Quote from: Rama Set
Personally I care way more how Trump deals with international policy than if he wasn't super polite in a photo op.

Then you're holding him to a shockingly low standard, one that's only going to get lower as his term continues. You wouldn't tolerate someone you barely knew doing this to you, yet you've managed to convince yourself that it's okay when the president does it to another head of state.

First off I find it troubling that being more concerned for actual policy and action is less valuable to you than body language.

Second, people tolerate others pushing past them often. Have you ever taken public transit? It happens extremely often. When it happens to me, I weigh my self-righteousness against the lack of harm that has been caused and usually come out on the side of self-righteousness being an ego-driven action that is a bet negative in my life.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2017, 06:02:50 PM by Rama Set »

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Offline rooster

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Re: Trump
« Reply #1568 on: May 28, 2017, 05:32:13 PM »
First off I find it troubling that being more concerned for actual policy and action is less valuable to you than body language.
To be fair, he didn't say it was less valuable. It is possible to care about both things to varying degrees. I'm sure we all care more about policy and action more than body language, but we can still ALSO care about body language and how he interacts with other people.

Some of us care about it. I understand not everyone does and will see it as pointless. Good on you, I have no problems with that. But I don't see why you think everyone shouldn't care? To me, how he treats people and his constant display of arrogance bothers the shit out of me. It's not how I want the representative of my country to behave. I want my president to treat other people with respect. We can continue to go back and forth over this but it comes down to some not caring and others caring, so I really don't see the point in this.

Rama Set

Re: Trump
« Reply #1569 on: May 28, 2017, 06:03:22 PM »
First off I find it troubling that being more concerned for actual policy and action is less valuable to you than body language.
To be fair, he didn't say it was less valuable. It is possible to care about both things to varying degrees. I'm sure we all care more about policy and action more than body language, but we can still ALSO care about body language and how he interacts with other people.

I may not have been 100% accurate in my characterization, but he did say that me judging him on policy over behaviour is a "shockingly low standard", which seems an odd way to phrase it if he meant what you do.  I also never said that I don't care about his behaviour.  Was what he did perhaps on the rude side, if we can indeed confirm that it came from nowhere?  Sure.  Is it a net negative in the long run?  Maybe.  Perhaps it will end up being a net positive too.

Quote
Some of us care about it. I understand not everyone does and will see it as pointless. Good on you, I have no problems with that. But I don't see why you think everyone shouldn't care? To me, how he treats people and his constant display of arrogance bothers the shit out of me. It's not how I want the representative of my country to behave. I want my president to treat other people with respect. We can continue to go back and forth over this but it comes down to some not caring and others caring, so I really don't see the point in this.

As I already stated, my issue with nitpicks like this is that people have a tendency to tune them out after a while.  If everything that Trump does, no matter how nebulous, innocuous or minor, is put under a microscope, I strongly believe that people's appetite for discussing issues of major importance will be diminished.  The real prize to keep our eye on here is to see Trump not get re-elected, and steering the conversation towards his policy failures is a better way to do it I think.

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Offline rooster

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Re: Trump
« Reply #1570 on: May 28, 2017, 06:50:21 PM »
Maybe you're right. But I personally disagree. For me, it all forms a bigger picture of his character and makes me keep a closer watch on everything he does.

Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #1571 on: May 30, 2017, 05:54:13 PM »
Welp, add Germany, Italy, and most of Europe to the list of people Trump has upset.

http://in.reuters.com/article/usa-germany-trump-idINKBN18Q13G?utm_source=34553&utm_medium=partner

And he just attacks right back.  So once shit hits the fan, the US will be on it's own. 
Also:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2017/05/30/trumps-getting-would-up-about-the-us-massive-trade-deficit-with-germany-it-doesnt-matter-donald/#7c5dbf3b294c
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Trump
« Reply #1572 on: May 30, 2017, 10:01:25 PM »
Welp, add Germany, Italy, and most of Europe to the list of people Trump has upset.
AMERICA  FIRST
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Re: Trump
« Reply #1573 on: May 30, 2017, 10:25:38 PM »
Welp, add Germany, Italy, and most of Europe to the list of people Trump has upset.

http://in.reuters.com/article/usa-germany-trump-idINKBN18Q13G?utm_source=34553&utm_medium=partner

And he just attacks right back.  So once shit hits the fan, the US will be on it's own. 
Also:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2017/05/30/trumps-getting-would-up-about-the-us-massive-trade-deficit-with-germany-it-doesnt-matter-donald/#7c5dbf3b294c

All these places need the States because the US buys so much shit and because of their massive military infrastructure. Merkel can bitch all she wants about US and UK but it's just peacocking. And does Italy bring anything to the table other than a collapsing economy?

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #1574 on: May 31, 2017, 04:42:40 AM »
Welp, add Germany, Italy, and most of Europe to the list of people Trump has upset.

http://in.reuters.com/article/usa-germany-trump-idINKBN18Q13G?utm_source=34553&utm_medium=partner

And he just attacks right back.  So once shit hits the fan, the US will be on it's own. 
Also:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2017/05/30/trumps-getting-would-up-about-the-us-massive-trade-deficit-with-germany-it-doesnt-matter-donald/#7c5dbf3b294c

All these places need the States because the US buys so much shit and because of their massive military infrastructure. Merkel can bitch all she wants about US and UK but it's just peacocking. And does Italy bring anything to the table other than a collapsing economy?
Maybe, but they just might find a way to not need the US.  Then whats the US gonna do when they have less shit to buy and no one wants their crap?
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #1575 on: May 31, 2017, 09:24:03 AM »
https://www.apnews.com/11a48fde81634789b1cc361696693b68

Oh this is cute.

He's a god damn idiot.  How long do you think it'll be before someone finds out his phone number and puts it online?
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Offline Pete Svarrior

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Re: Trump
« Reply #1576 on: May 31, 2017, 10:26:19 AM »
Then whats the US gonna do when they have less shit to buy and no one wants their crap?
Change its policy to adapt to reality. Just like they're doing right now. How is this even a question?

He's a god damn idiot.  How long do you think it'll be before someone finds out his phone number and puts it online?
I want it ;_;
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Offline Tom Bishop

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Re: Trump
« Reply #1577 on: May 31, 2017, 10:40:11 AM »
https://www.apnews.com/11a48fde81634789b1cc361696693b68

Oh this is cute.

He's a god damn idiot.  How long do you think it'll be before someone finds out his phone number and puts it online?

You are assuming that they would give him an unencrypted cell phone. Obama had a cell phone, and was allowed to take calls.

I wonder. Who is more likely the idiot; you, or the Secret Service of the United States?

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Offline Lord Dave

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Re: Trump
« Reply #1578 on: May 31, 2017, 11:18:39 AM »
https://www.apnews.com/11a48fde81634789b1cc361696693b68

Oh this is cute.

He's a god damn idiot.  How long do you think it'll be before someone finds out his phone number and puts it online?

You are assuming that they would give him an unencrypted cell phone. Obama had a cell phone, and was allowed to take calls.

I wonder. Who is more likely the idiot; you, or the Secret Service of the United States?
Did you read the article?
It's a private cell phone on an open line.

Obama has a highly altered and enhanced blackberry with most of it's functions disabled for security purposes, few people had his phone number, and he didn't call heads of state with it.

And even if the phone itself is encrypted, it won't be on an encrypted line. 

And the SS does it's best but I'm pretty sure if the president says "Fuck you, I'm using my phone and twitter" they can't actually stop him.
If you are going to DebOOonK an expert then you have to at least provide a source with credentials of equal or greater relevance. Even then, it merely shows that some experts disagree with each other.

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Offline Dither

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Re: Trump
« Reply #1579 on: May 31, 2017, 11:40:50 AM »
Mr T is having a lot of fun as the new CEO of the world, cut him a bit of slack.
Gotta love a man who enjoys himself so much, you can't wipe the smile off his face.
Doesn't even break a sweat when the Pope rejects his secret Masonic handshake.

The mans got rhino hide, He's in ya face, Trump is that bloke who gate crashes your party and announces,
"I'm going to Jail tomorrow, anyone wanna join me?" Forces all the guests into survival mode.
Trump will singlehandedly bring about World Peace just by hangin' out with everyone.
Nothing dangerous will happen as long as Trumps around, even the army are like "shhhh, here he comes"
 

 
 

A lie will make it around the world before the truth has time to put on its shoes.