[honk]

>mfw people are seriously responding to Rushy's farcical suggestion

I wasn't being farcical.

The United States doesn't use landmines anymore, as you know perfectly well; even if it did, it would never deploy them against civilians, as you also know perfectly well, and even if it did that as well, maintaining a minefield of this size would - great, now I've been Rushed too.

I will say, though, that I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest to see Trump casually suggest this (probably on Twitter) at some point in the future, leading to another string of incredulous articles from the media.

[Rushy]

>mfw people are seriously responding to Rushy's farcical suggestion

I wasn't being farcical.

The United States doesn't use landmines anymore, as you know perfectly well; even if it did, it would never deploy them against civilians, as you also know perfectly well, and even if it did that as well, maintaining a minefield of this size would - great, now I've been Rushed too.

I will say, though, that I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest to see Trump casually suggest this (probably on Twitter) at some point in the future, leading to another string of incredulous articles from the media.

Why Trump Can't Use Landmines

Trump's Landmine Comments Go Too Far

Hitler Used Landmines, Should Trump?

Mexican President Comments On Trump Landmines: "Horrendous!"


Also, they'll all use this picture:

[Ghost Spaghetti]

Trump isn't display of ignorance over why the war started. He gets roasted for wondering why things couldn't have turned out differently? What a dumb fucking article.

"People don't realize, you know, the Civil War, if you think about it, why? [...] People don't ask that question, but why was there the Civil War? Why could that one not have been worked out?"

Aside from making up a fake story about the dead Andrew Jackson responding to the Civil War, he's also being roasted for this attitude he does a lot, where he assumes that because he doesn't know something, nobody does (see: nobody knew healthcare would be this complicated). People don't ask the question of why there was the Civil War? Pretty sure there are entire fields filled with historians that study that very question their entire lives.

For once, I'm going to have to come down on Trump's side. There's something poisonous about treating a conflict like the Civil War or the World Wars as inevitable. I interpreted Trump's blitherings as:
"Why couldn't the Confederates and Unionists sat down across the table before hundreds of thousands of people were killed by muskets and cannons?"

if that's what he meant then it is a reasonable question to consider. No war is inevitable, it is a decision made by a handful of men in positions of power. The CW could have been avoided, but it would have meant concessions made by both sides which might have been seen as unacceptable - and would certainly be seen as appalling to us today.

Now, that might not be what he meant, he really might be as ignorant as some are painting him - it certainly fits into previous patterns. Either way, it demonstrates why, when you're President of the United States, it's important to present your thoughts clearly and carefully.

[Roundy]

Really this whole Civil War thing is just another example of how the Media truly is out to get Trump, it does make you wonder just how much they are exaggerating the Russian conspiracy issue, and assuming Trump does avoid impeachment his first term, they are feeding his narrative that the Media is a bunch of liars united in the goal of pushing him out of office whether it's justified or not, and ultimately  aiding his 2020 campaign. It's stupid and it pisses me off.

[honk]

How low our standards have fallen when people are willing to shrug off something like this as acceptable.

[Pete Svarrior]

It's actually heartwarming to see that people are starting to notice this and speak out against it. Perhaps it will be enough to push for the media and over-the-top Democrats to sort their shit out before they lose their remnants of relevancy. One can only hope.

[garygreen]

it's not the question that's indefensible; it's his weird insistence that he's the only one who thought to ask it.

[Rama Set]

it's not the question that's indefensible; it's his weird insistence that he's the only one who thought to ask it.

+1 to that.  Otherwise, it is innocuous.  More innocuous than GWB's terrible malapropisms.

[honk]

That, and the fabricated story about Jackson. Which seems to keep getting glossed over.

[Lord Dave]

Really this whole Civil War thing is just another example of how the Media truly is out to get Trump, it does make you wonder just how much they are exaggerating the Russian conspiracy issue, and assuming Trump does avoid impeachment his first term, they are feeding his narrative that the Media is a bunch of liars united in the goal of pushing him out of office whether it's justified or not, and ultimately  aiding his 2020 campaign. It's stupid and it pisses me off.

If fairness, when the guy is basically:

"You media assholes are liars and only fox is trustworthy!  People need to never watch you ever!"
You kinda start a war. 

Also, Fox does that shit all the time.  Just for everyone not-right sided politically.  They roasted Obama for taking a vacation and costing tax payers a few million dollars, for example.




The civil war thing though just continues on the worry that he's ignorant about the country he's running.  Like, even I know enough about the civil war to know:
1. People have asked that question alot and it's taught in High School.
2. The reasons were complex as hell and involved alot of factors.

Fuck, people taking the nationalization exam need to know that.  So for him NOT to know it is really kinda bad. 
Hell, they kinda DID sit down and talk about it for years but when Lincoln got elected and they called foul, well... war was inevitable.

It's kinda like today, really, only we're so interdependent on each other that even Texas, which was full of people who wanted to go on their own and leave the US, was like "Yeah... we can't."
Also, most people are happy to bitch on the internet or go to rallies but 90% would not pick up a gun and go shoot at other people cause they have work in the morning.  Not unless it was a direct military threat on their lives.

[garygreen]

jesus fucking christ.

you lost because no one trusts you, and you ran a shitty campaign, dummy.

[Roundy]

You people act like Trump is the first politician to employ rhetoric in his speech.  Jesus Christ.  Obviously he doesn't think he's the first person to ask whether the Civil War could have been prevented with negotiation; he's not the first person to suggest that the Civil War could have been prevented with negotiations (we're talking real historians here); and the thing he said about Andrew Jackson is perfectly reasonable if you understand the context of it (if weirdly worded, but I think it's time we do overlook stuff like that because his core base sure as fuck is).  Tensions between the North and the South didn't begin in 1860.

If fairness, when the guy is basically:

"You media assholes are liars and only fox is trustworthy!  People need to never watch you ever!"
You kinda start a war. 

Also, Fox does that shit all the time.  Just for everyone not-right sided politically.  They roasted Obama for taking a vacation and costing tax payers a few million dollars, for example.

I absolutely understand why they might think it's justified.  But in the end it could easily cost the midterm and the next Presidential election for the Democrats if the Republicans exploit it.  So however justified it might be, it's stupid.

Also, for a long time, I've felt like the mainstream media was above the kind of petty lies and hyperbole that defines Fox News.  It's kind of sad that not only is that no longer a thing but apparently its adherents celebrate the fact that the mainstream media has finally sunken to their levels.  How sad for liberalism in America. 

[Rushy]

Also, for a long time, I've felt like the mainstream media was above the kind of petty lies and hyperbole that defines Fox News.  It's kind of sad that not only is that no longer a thing but apparently its adherents celebrate the fact that the mainstream media has finally sunken to their levels.  How sad for liberalism in America. 

[Lord Dave]

Obviously he doesn't think he's the first person to ask whether the Civil War could have been prevented with negotiation;

Citation needed cause there's no obviously about it.  You would THINK he knows this but we've all seen people who you'd THINK would know better, but sure as fuck don't.

he's not the first person to suggest that the Civil War could have been prevented with negotiations (we're talking real historians here);

Yeah but everything can be solved with negotiations if you have two reasonable sides willing to make consessions.  WW1 could have been prevented if everyone said "Woah... let's not all go to war just because our treaties say so... let's talk about this instead..." WW2 could have been prevented if Hitler's agreement to not get more land after negotiations was kept.  The Vietnam war could have been avoided if we had just sat down with the USSR and agreed on who should get what country to turn communist/capitalist.  It's like saying "Well, that murder could have been prevented if we killed the murderer before hand."  It's a broad solution that applies to literally any conflict between two humans.

If fairness, when the guy is basically:

"You media assholes are liars and only fox is trustworthy!  People need to never watch you ever!"
You kinda start a war. 

Also, Fox does that shit all the time.  Just for everyone not-right sided politically.  They roasted Obama for taking a vacation and costing tax payers a few million dollars, for example.

I absolutely understand why they might think it's justified.  But in the end it could easily cost the midterm and the next Presidential election for the Democrats if the Republicans exploit it.  So however justified it might be, it's stupid.

Also, for a long time, I've felt like the mainstream media was above the kind of petty lies and hyperbole that defines Fox News.  It's kind of sad that not only is that no longer a thing but apparently its adherents celebrate the fact that the mainstream media has finally sunken to their levels.  How sad for liberalism in America. 

Yeah but there's another reason they do it: Profit.
Just like how Fox slammed Obama to get viewers to watch their news, the rest of the news stations can slam Trump and get the same effect.  It's capitalism at it's finest.

[Roundy]

Obviously he doesn't think he's the first person to ask whether the Civil War could have been prevented with negotiation;

Citation needed cause there's no obviously about it.  You would THINK he knows this but we've all seen people who you'd THINK would know better, but sure as fuck don't.

See, this is what's ridiculous.  You are confounding what the media is saying about Trump's words with his actual words.  He never says that he's the first person to ask the question, or that nobody has ever asked the question, he is saying that it's not a question that gets asked.  The implication to me is that it's not something that people normally think about.  Again, this is how Trump talks.  It sounds dumb and maybe it is dumb, but in the end it's just a rhetorical device to help get across his point.  Might as well get used to it.  We've got almost eight more years of it if the media doesn't wise up to its stupidity.

he's not the first person to suggest that the Civil War could have been prevented with negotiations (we're talking real historians here);

Yeah but everything can be solved with negotiations if you have two reasonable sides willing to make consessions.  WW1 could have been prevented if everyone said "Woah... let's not all go to war just because our treaties say so... let's talk about this instead..." WW2 could have been prevented if Hitler's agreement to not get more land after negotiations was kept.  The Vietnam war could have been avoided if we had just sat down with the USSR and agreed on who should get what country to turn communist/capitalist.  It's like saying "Well, that murder could have been prevented if we killed the murderer before hand."  It's a broad solution that applies to literally any conflict between two humans.

That's a great assessment from an average joe who loves to tell people his opinions on the internet.  To a historian I'm sure the situation is more nuanced than that.  I have to assume that the Civil War historians who have studied the issue and come to the conclusion that negotiations might have been a viable way to prevent the war have a much better understanding of the situation than you do.

If fairness, when the guy is basically:

"You media assholes are liars and only fox is trustworthy!  People need to never watch you ever!"
You kinda start a war. 

Also, Fox does that shit all the time.  Just for everyone not-right sided politically.  They roasted Obama for taking a vacation and costing tax payers a few million dollars, for example.

I absolutely understand why they might think it's justified.  But in the end it could easily cost the midterm and the next Presidential election for the Democrats if the Republicans exploit it.  So however justified it might be, it's stupid.

Also, for a long time, I've felt like the mainstream media was above the kind of petty lies and hyperbole that defines Fox News.  It's kind of sad that not only is that no longer a thing but apparently its adherents celebrate the fact that the mainstream media has finally sunken to their levels.  How sad for liberalism in America. 

Yeah but there's another reason they do it: Profit.
Just like how Fox slammed Obama to get viewers to watch their news, the rest of the news stations can slam Trump and get the same effect.  It's capitalism at it's finest.

I'm sorry, I'm confused.  Are you saying the mainstream media is trying to profit from its sensationalism or that Fox News is trying to profit from its sensationalism?  Because obviously they are both out to profit from their sensationalism.  It therefore doesn't change that the mainstream media has sunk to Fox's levels.  And now it's adherents are actively trying to rationalize the media's decision to lie and distort to get the President out of office.  It's sad.

[trekky0623]

It might be how Trump talks, but it doesn't stop it from sounding any less retarded. You'd think for an interview he might be able to organize some more coherent thoughts instead of rambling about Andrew Jackson having a big heart and being sad about the Civil War and why couldn't it have been solved peacefully. I'm not sure what possible question could have been asked to illicit that response. It's an elementary school understanding of history at best and it's sad that people accept it as fitting of the president.

[rooster]

"His comments on the Civil War drew swift criticism from some civil rights groups and Democrats, including Rep. Barbara Lee of California who tweeted 'President Trump doesn't understand the Civil War. It's because my ancestors and millions of others were enslaved.'" Of course liberal media had to jump on this, people were reacting pretty quickly to his statements.

The end of the article shows other examples of Trump's grasp on American history so it seems like they're just adding this to a growing list. MAYBE he was just using rhetoric to say "we should just work things out before it gets to war," but he apparently has no qualms aggressively launching missiles and has an overall weak grasp of politics/history. So it's some pretty shit rhetoric. Sure, you can say the article is nitpicking, but I don't think it was overly harsh or hyperbolic or a lie.

[honk]

If any of us went to a job interview and spoke to the people there the way Trump regularly speaks - incoherent yammering that lurches all over the place, a very poor, sophomoric level of understanding of the job's subject matter, and a few obvious lies, we wouldn't get the job. That goes without saying. So why are any of you willing to hold the man with the most important job in the world to a lower standard? And I don't care that this is how he regularly talks. Becoming the president demands quite a few major changes in lifestyle. Trump should be adjusting himself to suit the demands of the presidency, not expecting everyone and everything else to change to meet his own lazy, sloppy standards. Again, he's the president. It's an enormously difficult and demanding job, and it's not going to get any easier for him after such a dismal "honeymoon" period. If he can't handle it, he should resign.

[Rushy]

Depends on the job interview. Plenty of car salesmen talk like Trump and it's actually a very good way to pitch sales in general (sales to non-technical customers, that is). The exaggerating attitude, the mixing of positive points with negatives slid in and then hammered at the end of the sentence with more positive points, and other tendencies. Pretty much everyone is susceptible to this kind of speech style in one way or another.

[Roundy]

It might be how Trump talks, but it doesn't stop it from sounding any less retarded. You'd think for an interview he might be able to organize some more coherent thoughts instead of rambling about Andrew Jackson having a big heart and being sad about the Civil War and why couldn't it have been solved peacefully. I'm not sure what possible question could have been asked to illicit that response. It's an elementary school understanding of history at best and it's sad that people accept it as fitting of the president.

I'm sorry? Trump shows clear knowledge of the Nulllification Crisis (when Andrew Jackson, you know, averted a civil war with negotiation) and that's "an elementary school understanding of history at its best"? You must have gone to one hell of an elementary school.

If I can be clear, I am no Trump supporter. I still think he's dangerously unqualified and very likely a traitor. But there are so many valid criticisms to be made, to quibble over something so minor, make it part of the regular news cycle for days, veritably ignore the point he was trying to make so we can all point and laugh yet again at how much of a moron our president is... do you really think this is having the impact they want it to? The choir is going to agree but that's not going to change anything. Nobody who didn't already have a negative opinion of Trump is going to take this seriously. And it is giving the GOP ammunition for the next two election seasons. Dumb.