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Offline SexWarrior

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Re: Trump
« Reply #1920 on: July 15, 2017, 12:21:27 PM »
No Democrat in Congress is doing that.
Oh no, you're doing that thing again.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/05/17/politics/al-green-impeachment-call/index.html
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-us-congressman-ted-lieu-treason-russia-links-shutdown-us-president-legislation-agenda-a7647651.html

This is operating under the presumption of guilt, as opposed to the presumption of innocence. It is not just the moral low ground, it's the sewers of morality. Get some evidence, then act on it. Alternatively, continue killing off the Democratic Party - it will not be missed.

Hasn't James Comey stated that the FBI has been investigating the Trump campaign for the past year, since last July?
You're shifting goalposts away from Trump to the Trump campaign. Let's pretend you didn't do that for a while.

Comey has stated quite the opposite regarding Trump: https://www.independent.co.uk/News/world/americas/us-politics/trump-comey-testimony-investigation-russia-fbi-president-not-under-probe-a7778161.html

Oh, and chronology is important, so if you're referring to this statement, it can hardly be used to justify the Dems' action prior to it. Hopefully this doesn't surprise you.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2017, 12:50:44 PM by SexWarrior »
<Parsifal> Jesus Christ
<Parsifal> Do I really have to write 6000-word sentences just to remove all ambiguity from everything I'm saying?

Where live, do the offer adult reading classes?

Re: Trump
« Reply #1921 on: July 15, 2017, 01:41:39 PM »
This is operating under the presumption of guilt, as opposed to the presumption of innocence.

Quote
For those who do not know, impeachment does not mean that the President would be found guilty. It simply means that the House of Representatives will bring charges against the President. It's similar to an indictment but not quite the same thing.

Quote
‘We may have an illegitimate President of the United States currently occupying the White House,' says Ted Lieu

Oh look, what I said. These Democrats are not saying Trump is 100% guilty.


Hasn't James Comey stated that the FBI has been investigating the Trump campaign for the past year, since last July?
You're shifting goalposts away from Trump to the Trump campaign. Let's pretend you didn't do that for a while.

Is Trump not responsible for what happened in his campaign? Or are we still operating under Trump having no idea what was going on within his own presidential campaign, which strains credibility and is arguably worse.

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Offline SexWarrior

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Re: Trump
« Reply #1922 on: July 15, 2017, 02:03:13 PM »
Oh look, what I said. These Democrats are not saying Trump is 100% guilty.
Is your best argument entirely rooted in taking my hyperbole literally? If so, I'll just accept you don't have a comeback and move on. Just to remind you, you are disputing the fact that they were operating under the presumption of guilt.

Is Trump not responsible for what happened in his campaign? Or are we still operating under Trump having no idea what was going on within his own presidential campaign, which strains credibility and is arguably worse.
Neither, but when your argument is that they were obstructing someone who was under investigation, it would be good if a) he was under investigation and b) they had a chance of knowing that at the time.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2017, 02:10:46 PM by SexWarrior »
<Parsifal> Jesus Christ
<Parsifal> Do I really have to write 6000-word sentences just to remove all ambiguity from everything I'm saying?

Where live, do the offer adult reading classes?

Re: Trump
« Reply #1923 on: July 15, 2017, 04:07:48 PM »
It didn't sound like hyperbole to me. It sounded pretty straightforward:

Unless you're halting him from passing legislation while loudly screaming about how you're doing it because he's 100% guilty and disgraceful. By virtue of stating someone's guilt, you're making it pretty clear that you believe them to be guilty.

No Democrat in Congress is doing that.

That's what I disputed. Are you going to move the goalposts now?

Is Trump not responsible for what happened in his campaign? Or are we still operating under Trump having no idea what was going on within his own presidential campaign, which strains credibility and is arguably worse.
Neither, but when your argument is that they were obstructing someone who was under investigation, it would be good if a) he was under investigation and b) they had a chance of knowing that at the time.

You and I both know the opposition party is not going to make a distinction between the president and the president's campaign being under investigation. For the purposes of their political manoeuvring to prevent legislation from being passed, both will do fine. And that's not a presumption of guilt, either. It's politics in action.

What are you expecting Democrats to do? Just vote with the Republicans anyway out of the kindness of their hearts? In what possible word are you envisioning opposition Democrats with a president whose campaign is under investigation voting for their agenda?
« Last Edit: July 15, 2017, 04:09:19 PM by trekky0623 »

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Offline SexWarrior

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Re: Trump
« Reply #1924 on: July 15, 2017, 04:12:07 PM »
That's what I disputed. Are you going to move the goalposts now?
Yes, I will move them back to where you picked them up. Sorry I'm not letting you run away with them.

Again, if your best argument is "Your hyperbole doesn't work when taken literally", there's not much more I can tell you.

You and I both know the opposition party is not going to make a distinction between the president and the president's campaign being under investigation.
Yes. I'm just saying that's morally rotten.

And that's not a presumption of guilt, either. It's politics in action.
Clearly we have very different perspectives of what politics is. I guess Russia's annexation of Crimea was also nothing else than "politics in action", because politics was involved and that explains everything always.

[btw trekky there is also some hyperbole here plz no take super-literally]

What are you expecting Democrats to do? Just vote with the Republicans anyway out of the kindness of their hearts?
Vote on policies according to their conscience and professional opinion. Generally, do their job.

Democrats voting against Republicans because they don't agree on policy? Fine (and obvious). Democrats voting against Republicans and deliberately disrupting the political process because of an unproven criminal allegation? Shitty, opportunistic, and the reason Democrats are tumbling into obscurity.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2017, 04:23:29 PM by SexWarrior »
<Parsifal> Jesus Christ
<Parsifal> Do I really have to write 6000-word sentences just to remove all ambiguity from everything I'm saying?

Where live, do the offer adult reading classes?

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Offline honk

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Re: Trump
« Reply #1925 on: July 15, 2017, 05:02:26 PM »
deliberately disrupting the political process because of an unproven criminal allegation? Shitty, opportunistic...

This sounds familiar.

ur retartet but u donut even no it and i walnut tell u y

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Offline SexWarrior

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Re: Trump
« Reply #1926 on: July 15, 2017, 06:36:19 PM »
This sounds familiar.
Go on? I don't know what you're alluding to, but I'm guessing my recent condemnation of Republican obstructionism was somehow not enough for you.

And what is it with the constant "Oh boo-hoo but the other meanies did it too" mentality, anyway? Are you unable to discuss the criticism of your own camp for a few minutes without making it about someone else?
« Last Edit: July 15, 2017, 06:46:39 PM by SexWarrior »
<Parsifal> Jesus Christ
<Parsifal> Do I really have to write 6000-word sentences just to remove all ambiguity from everything I'm saying?

Where live, do the offer adult reading classes?

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Trump
« Reply #1927 on: July 15, 2017, 07:11:20 PM »
This is why a candidate can be elected purely on a "the system is broken" platform, and win despite many other failings.
FE'ism requires suspension of disbelief...

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Offline Roundy

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Re: Trump
« Reply #1928 on: July 15, 2017, 07:36:54 PM »
Is your best argument entirely rooted in taking my hyperbole literally?
Ladies and gentlemen, SexWarrior!
Electro-Theologist, Poet, Philosopher, Musician, Etymologist, Egyptologist, Astro-Theologist, Geocentrist, Flat Earther, and Collector of Rare Books.

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Offline SexWarrior

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Re: Trump
« Reply #1929 on: July 15, 2017, 10:25:48 PM »
Ladies and gentlemen, SexWarrior!
Yeah, how very dare I expect people to respond to irony appropriately?

[Cue very serious responses to above question]
<Parsifal> Jesus Christ
<Parsifal> Do I really have to write 6000-word sentences just to remove all ambiguity from everything I'm saying?

Where live, do the offer adult reading classes?

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Offline honk

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Re: Trump
« Reply #1930 on: July 18, 2017, 04:28:51 AM »
Go on? I don't know what you're alluding to

I'm making a very witty reference to the neverending Benghazi "hearings" and investigations, which interestingly fit your complaints far more than the current situation does. It was a cynical partisan stunt designed to serve the interests of the Republican Party rather than the country, it catered to insane conspiracy theorists, and after not one, not two, but seven separate investigations, each one going over the exact same ground as the last, only in angrier, more accusatory terms, there's no doubt that guilt wasn't just presumed, it was pre-guaranteed.

Quote
but I'm guessing my recent condemnation of Republican obstructionism was somehow not enough for you.

No, not when it's accompanied by comments about this being "the reason Democrats are tumbling into obscurity" and the like. You're just tossing quick disclaimers into your posts again so you have an escape hatch if someone raises a point you're not willing to argue based on its merits. It's the coward's debate method.
ur retartet but u donut even no it and i walnut tell u y

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Offline SexWarrior

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Re: Trump
« Reply #1931 on: July 18, 2017, 08:15:33 AM »
which interestingly fit your complaints far more than the current situation does
That's just, like, your opinion, man. But can I see those examples of Republicans Congressmen trying to shut down government over Benghazi? I'm not too familiar with that time period.

But let's say you're right. A bad thing happened in the past and Republicans were doing evil shit with it. I think that's terrible, the worst, believe me; but it also seems that it's firmly in the past. Even if what they were doing was worse, how does that affect the fact that what the Democrats are doing right now is shit?

Do we have to talk about every bad thing in the past before we're allowed to complain about the present? If so, you're no longer allowed to complain about Trump, because the Holocaust happened.

This question is related, but distinct from my previous one. If you wouldn't mind answering both, that'd be great
And what is it with the constant "Oh boo-hoo but the other meanies did it too" mentality, anyway? Are you unable to discuss the criticism of your own camp for a few minutes without making it about someone else?

No, not when it's accompanied by comments about this being "the reason Democrats are tumbling into obscurity" and the like. You're just tossing quick disclaimers into your posts again so you have an escape hatch if someone raises a point you're not willing to argue based on its merits. It's the coward's debate method.
Saddam, take a deep breath and think about the things you're saying about me. When I'm pointing out that you were wrong in the past, I'm not just doing that. I'm "gaslighting" you. When I argue that the Democrats' actions are hugely hurting their popularity (we've observed this in recent elections, we know it's happening) while simultaneously agreeing that Republicans fucked up similarly in the past, I'm just creating "escape hatches". Nothing I say has a simple meaning. It's clearly all a conspiracy, and one only you can crack.

Saddam, do you really think I'm some sort of shady schemer, devising intricate plans to "win" the Trump thread on FES? Could it be that I'm just a foreign guy with perspectives on politics which are vastly different from yours? Could it be that while I don't support Trump, I'm also strongly opposed to how the Democrats are trying (and failing - again, we've observed this!) to deal with him?

Could it be that the things I'm saying are just that? No hidden layers, no mystical secrets, no long-term planning? Because, honestly, that is exactly what it is - casual opinions without too much thought going into them. Try to be less paranoid. You'll feel better about things then.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2017, 08:29:57 AM by SexWarrior »
<Parsifal> Jesus Christ
<Parsifal> Do I really have to write 6000-word sentences just to remove all ambiguity from everything I'm saying?

Where live, do the offer adult reading classes?

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Offline Roundy

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Re: Trump
« Reply #1933 on: July 19, 2017, 04:08:01 AM »
www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-had-undisclosed-hour-long-meeting-with-putin-at-g20-summit/2017/07/18/39c18dd4-6bd0-11e7-96ab-5f38140b38cc_story.html?utm_term=.89c27f35c888

omg dinnergate


Maybe!  Who knows?  I mean, it was off rcord, off cuff, ans out of earshot so who knows what was said.  They could have spent two hours talking about how sexy Trump's wife is.

Re: Trump
« Reply #1934 on: July 20, 2017, 12:56:02 PM »
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/887302632687251456
[/size]
[/size]Basically: Trump blams 8 dems in the senate for a failed health care bill cause he thought they needed 60 votes and all 52 senators voted yes.

[/size]Also, dems control the senate.

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Offline Rama Set

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Re: Trump
« Reply #1935 on: July 20, 2017, 01:17:38 PM »
I tried to find a way to rationalize his comment so that it made sense, but I will have to leave that to Tom.
FE'ism requires suspension of disbelief...

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Offline Roundy

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Re: Trump
« Reply #1936 on: July 20, 2017, 08:50:42 PM »
www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/07/20/what-was-trump-talking-about-with-12-a-year-health-insurance/?sw_bypass=true&utm_term=.06d07f77925d

6 months into his presidency and it's still clear he has no fucking clue how health insurance works. Unbelievable. Oh but he amazed so many Senators about how phenomenal his understanding of the system is. I can believe they let him think that too, the fucking bootlickers. LOL
Electro-Theologist, Poet, Philosopher, Musician, Etymologist, Egyptologist, Astro-Theologist, Geocentrist, Flat Earther, and Collector of Rare Books.

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Offline Roundy

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Re: Trump
« Reply #1937 on: July 20, 2017, 08:57:18 PM »
]www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/07/20/trump-set-a-red-line-for-robert-mueller-and-now-mueller-has-reportedly-crossed-it/]

Fucking LOL. Mueller has been around the block, he understands what it means when a criminal tells him not to investigate something.

"Do you know why I pulled you over?"

"Not for what's in my trunk so you better not look in there!"
Electro-Theologist, Poet, Philosopher, Musician, Etymologist, Egyptologist, Astro-Theologist, Geocentrist, Flat Earther, and Collector of Rare Books.

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Offline honk

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Re: Trump
« Reply #1938 on: July 21, 2017, 03:53:21 AM »
That's just, like, your opinion, man. But can I see those examples of Republicans Congressmen trying to shut down government over Benghazi? I'm not too familiar with that time period.

But let's say you're right. A bad thing happened in the past and Republicans were doing evil shit with it. I think that's terrible, the worst, believe me; but it also seems that it's firmly in the past. Even if what they were doing was worse, how does that affect the fact that what the Democrats are doing right now is shit?

Do we have to talk about every bad thing in the past before we're allowed to complain about the present? If so, you're no longer allowed to complain about Trump, because the Holocaust happened.

This question is related, but distinct from my previous one. If you wouldn't mind answering both, that'd be great
And what is it with the constant "Oh boo-hoo but the other meanies did it too" mentality, anyway? Are you unable to discuss the criticism of your own camp for a few minutes without making it about someone else?

I'm only bringing this up as a criticism of your judgment and supposed objectivity, not a rebuttal of your claims here. And on that note, let's see here...one Democratic congressman called for Trump's impeachment, and another called for his legislation to be stalled pending the results of the investigation. Neither of these things have happened, and there's no indication that either of them are going to happen anytime soon. And that's the cause of all this melodrama about "vigilante justice," "presumption of guilt," and "the sewers of morality." How compelling.

Quote
Saddam, take a deep breath and think about the things you're saying about me. When I'm pointing out that you were wrong in the past, I'm not just doing that. I'm "gaslighting" you. When I argue that the Democrats' actions are hugely hurting their popularity (we've observed this in recent elections, we know it's happening) while simultaneously agreeing that Republicans fucked up similarly in the past, I'm just creating "escape hatches". Nothing I say has a simple meaning. It's clearly all a conspiracy, and one only you can crack.

Saddam, do you really think I'm some sort of shady schemer, devising intricate plans to "win" the Trump thread on FES? Could it be that I'm just a foreign guy with perspectives on politics which are vastly different from yours? Could it be that while I don't support Trump, I'm also strongly opposed to how the Democrats are trying (and failing - again, we've observed this!) to deal with him?

Could it be that the things I'm saying are just that? No hidden layers, no mystical secrets, no long-term planning? Because, honestly, that is exactly what it is - casual opinions without too much thought going into them. Try to be less paranoid. You'll feel better about things then.

More melodrama, and yet another obvious strawman. All I'm saying about you is that you frequently use logical fallacies, and yeah, that you're egotistical enough to want to always be seen as "winning" any discussion you take part in. There are millions of people like that on the Internet. You could write a lengthy, sarcastic spiel like the one above about anything. If I said to you, "SexWarrior, today you ate a bowl of cereal of breakfast," you'd respond with, "Yeah, right. So, let me get this straight, you think that I have access to some kind of container in the shape of a hemisphere, fashioned out of china, metal, or some other material? And you think that I also have access to a large quantity of toasted flakes or grains of certain crops, and that I would put those in the container? And then that I'd pour the white liquid that comes out of the udders of cows on top of it all? And then that I'd actually eat this toxic waste dump, using yet another metal container to scoop it out, just one smaller than the first? Saddam, do you have any idea how insane you sound?"

That's you. And you know that's you, because you're perfectly aware of the strawman fallacy, and you'd be merciless if someone pulled such a blatant one on you - just like you'd be the first to mock anyone arguing that one political party is destroying both democracy and justice because two congressmen called for things that didn't happen and won't happen.
ur retartet but u donut even no it and i walnut tell u y

Re: Trump
« Reply #1939 on: July 21, 2017, 06:28:06 AM »
www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/07/20/what-was-trump-talking-about-with-12-a-year-health-insurance/?sw_bypass=true&utm_term=.06d07f77925d

6 months into his presidency and it's still clear he has no fucking clue how health insurance works. Unbelievable. Oh but he amazed so many Senators about how phenomenal his understanding of the system is. I can believe they let him think that too, the fucking bootlickers. LOL


Maybe he's remembering the last time he had to read a policy, back in 1981?
Or he's thinking of copay....


Either way, not shocked.  This is a man who probably knows less about his own business than most people online. 


]www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/07/20/trump-set-a-red-line-for-robert-mueller-and-now-mueller-has-reportedly-crossed-it/]

Fucking LOL. Mueller has been around the block, he understands what it means when a criminal tells him not to investigate something.

"Do you know why I pulled you over?"

"Not for what's in my trunk so you better not look in there!"


When you need a god damn flow chart to explain what the president might do, you know shits going down hill.
Worse yet, if he did all that, his supporters would fucking cheer.  History, it seems, is lost on them.  But hey, dictators always have supporters.  Just add them to the list.   




Still, should be interesting.  I mean, Trump is so happy to brag about his business yet having anyone look at them in any form is so frightening to him. 


$10 says they'll find Trump's business about to go bankrupt for good.