Re: Gleason's Map and Middleton's Map
« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2016, 02:07:34 AM »
Are you asking if this chapter of the Flat Earth Society has an opinion of the alleged plagiarism of the Azimuthmal Equidistant Projection by Gleason or Christopher?

To the best of my knowledge, no one cares.

Maybe no one cares, but it is just one more curiosity and one more nail in the FES coffin.

I  was just asking if any one else noticed the obvious plagiararism.

Just curious. It is very obvious if you check it out.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2016, 05:36:59 PM by geckothegeek »
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Re: Gleason's Map and Middleton's Map
« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2016, 03:51:41 AM »

but it is just one more curiosity and one more nail in the FES coffin.

False.
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Re: Gleason's Map and Middleton's Map
« Reply #22 on: March 07, 2016, 12:21:14 AM »
If you can prove it's not just a copy, is original, is "The New Standard Map Of The World", is the correct map of the world, etc, I would be interested.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azimuthal_equidistant_projection
Stick close to your P.C's and never go to sea
And You All may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Yes, Never, Never, Never go to sea
Just look out your windows,
Flat ! Flat ! Flat !
Is all that you shall see !

Re: Gleason's Map and Middleton's Map
« Reply #23 on: January 04, 2017, 08:52:43 AM »
The Gleason's Map is actually a Polar Azimuthal equidistant projection of the Globe. Heck, it's even stated on the map itself, that it's a projection! Anyways, the uneven latitude lines show an unequivocal sign of such projection. Just read Gleason's US patent application from 1895 (US 497917 A). He didn't get a patent for an already well known mapping technique which actually is an equidistant projection from a pole, but essentially for the various tools he added to the circular map which represented a novelty. In fact, the intent of his map was to create an educational apparatus:

« On the face of the map proper, and within another circle (still toward the center) is laid out the continents, principal islands, rivers and cities of the world; their latitudes and longitudes corresponding to the latitudes and longitudes of all other first class geographical globe maps or charts of the world.
(further down) The map is not so extorted as to lose the relative latitude and longitude of any places on the land or sea, but retains all latitudes and longitudes of places agreeing with other recognized authors; and as the proper relations of continents and countries all stand in their relative position to each other, they are thus impressed upon the mind of the student. The extorsion of the map from that of a globe consists, mainly in the straightening out of the meridian lines allowing each to retain their original value from Greenwich, the equator to the two poles. »

In reply to SexWarrior who seems to use reverse psychology by pretending that all those who use the globe model would embrace some irrational "religious zeal"/belief, in fact the Flat Earth model is the religious one: https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/home/index.php/featured/religious-references
...To the point of pretending that the equidistant projection, would be an attempt in conceptualizing a flat Earth model from its author, which is plain false.

Here's another evidence : a World Map by Peter Apian created in 1524
http://www.leventhalmap.org/id/m8769
Like for the Gleason's map it's essentially a polar projection of the globe. The difference here is that he's using a stereographic projection centered on the North Pole.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2017, 09:21:30 AM by HawkFest »

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Re: Gleason's Map and Middleton's Map
« Reply #24 on: January 04, 2017, 08:47:13 PM »
In reply to SexWarrior who seems to use reverse psychology by pretending that all those who use the globe model would embrace some irrational "religious zeal"/belief, in fact the Flat Earth model is the religious one: https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/home/index.php/featured/religious-references
Ah, great, so now you're putting the words of other organisations in our mouths? If I find a crazy round earther saying nonsense, can I also tell you that your beliefs are equal to his? Or are we going to be mature about this?

And no, there's no reverse psychology at play here. It also has nothing to do with the round earth belief (although of course people do often approach it with religious zeal too). Gecko, specifically, is completely detached from reality, to the point where he often forgets what he said just hours prior. Given how well documented this is here, I find it probable that any and all of his references to "reality" are in fact references to his madness-induced visions.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2017, 08:49:35 PM by SexWarrior »
<Parsifal> Jesus Christ
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Where live, do the offer adult reading classes?

Re: Gleason's Map and Middleton's Map
« Reply #25 on: January 05, 2017, 02:42:03 AM »
I am still curious about that °Modern College" notation.....And who was "J.S. Christopher" ?........ LOL..
If it was just a mis-spelling of "Morden College" I would doubt that you would  find maps produced by a home for retired merchants.
If it did refer to a "Modern College" I doubt that you would find any institution of higher learning by that name in Blackheath, England.
Perhaps TFES can clear up this point by some research on their own ?

Incidentally. Amateur Radio Operators find AEP's centered on their location useful for aiming their antennas at contacts at any direction in the globe for "DX QSO's"
( Long Distance ) The AEP is a useful for obtaining bearings or directions from the point on which the map is  centered.

Adding this today .
 I have sent an e-mail to Morden College in Blackheath to see if they have any information on "Modern College" or "J.S. Christopher."
I am waiting for their reply.
Does TFES have any information on that notation on Gleason's Map ?
« Last Edit: January 06, 2017, 08:08:24 PM by geckothegeek »
Stick close to your P.C's and never go to sea
And You All may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Yes, Never, Never, Never go to sea
Just look out your windows,
Flat ! Flat ! Flat !
Is all that you shall see !

Re: Gleason's Map and Middleton's Map
« Reply #26 on: January 05, 2017, 07:03:33 PM »
Another item.
How about the measurements of the distance from the earth to the moon ?
238,150 miles  or 3,000 miles ?
Which of these is "a madness induced vision" ?
« Last Edit: January 09, 2017, 01:49:13 AM by geckothegeek »
Stick close to your P.C's and never go to sea
And You All may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Yes, Never, Never, Never go to sea
Just look out your windows,
Flat ! Flat ! Flat !
Is all that you shall see !

Re: Gleason's Map and Middleton's Map
« Reply #27 on: January 06, 2017, 06:37:49 PM »
BTW & FWIW.
There are at least two colleges with "Modern College" in their names - in India and Oman.

But so far, the only thing that has turned up in Blackheath, England is : "Morden College, a charity organisation for a home for retired poor merchants,  dating back to 1700, founded by Sir John Morden in 1695 ."

Still searching for information on "J.S.Christopher." No luck so far.

Nice e-mail from Morden College explained the use of "College" was in the sense of a "collegiate" institution rather than to a college or university.
They could find no information on the map or J.S. Christopher but are continuing to do some more research.

The bottom line is. : " Why did Gleason put this notation on his map and what was its source ?  "

I have also  sent an e-mail of inquiry to The Blackheath Society. No reply has been received as yet.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2017, 02:22:50 AM by geckothegeek »
Stick close to your P.C's and never go to sea
And You All may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Yes, Never, Never, Never go to sea
Just look out your windows,
Flat ! Flat ! Flat !
Is all that you shall see !

Re: Gleason's Map and Middleton's Map
« Reply #28 on: January 13, 2017, 05:54:10 AM »
Could Gleason's use of " Modern College" and "J.S. Christopher" just have been a ruse ?
Blackheath Society also responded they had no information.
They suggested I contact Morden College, which I had already done.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2017, 05:59:09 AM by geckothegeek »
Stick close to your P.C's and never go to sea
And You All may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Yes, Never, Never, Never go to sea
Just look out your windows,
Flat ! Flat ! Flat !
Is all that you shall see !

Re: Gleason's Map and Middleton's Map
« Reply #29 on: January 14, 2017, 04:35:11 AM »
Could Gleason's use of " Modern College" and "J.S. Christopher" just have been a ruse ?
Blackheath Society also responded they had no information.
They suggested I contact Morden College, which I had already done.

I stand corrected and offer my apologies for my errors, especially to the FES.

I received an additional e-mail from Morden College with the following information.:
"Modern is a  commom mis-typing of Morden." They have found frequent use of this in their records.
°Joseph Steers Christopher was a resident of Morden College from 1875 until his death in 1894 at the age of 89."
In his application for residency at Morden College, Christopher " Listed himself as a merchant , but there is no mention of any cartographic interests."
It might  be that Christopher took up the study of cartography or map making as a hobby or interest during his retirement years at Morden College.
He might have used the same methods fot his own projection as stated. If so, the results would naturally resemble those of the Unipolar Azimuthal Equidistant Projection.

Since the years of 1875-1894 are within those of Rowbotham's , there might have been a Christopher-Rowbotham connection.
Morden College could  find no information as to whether Christopher was a flat-earth believer or not.
There was one letter (in 1890)  that Morden College was asked if there was a flat-earth believer in resident at Morden, with the comment, " Not Mr. Christopher ? "

Whether there is a Gleason-Christopher connection is another question.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2017, 08:20:49 PM by geckothegeek »
Stick close to your P.C's and never go to sea
And You All may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Yes, Never, Never, Never go to sea
Just look out your windows,
Flat ! Flat ! Flat !
Is all that you shall see !

Re: Gleason's Map and Middleton's Map
« Reply #30 on: January 14, 2017, 05:07:30 AM »
In reply to SexWarrior who seems to use reverse psychology by pretending that all those who use the globe model would embrace some irrational "religious zeal"/belief, in fact the Flat Earth model is the religious one: https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/home/index.php/featured/religious-references
Ah, great, so now you're putting the words of other organisations in our mouths? If I find a crazy round earther saying nonsense, can I also tell you that your beliefs are equal to his? Or are we going to be mature about this?

And no, there's no reverse psychology at play here. It also has nothing to do with the round earth belief (although of course people do often approach it with religious zeal too). Gecko, specifically, is completely detached from reality, to the point where he often forgets what he said just hours prior. Given how well documented this is here, I find it probable that any and all of his references to "reality" are in fact references to his madness-induced visions.

Could you kindly give me a list of my "madness-induced visions"  ? 
And any which are "completely detached from reality" ?
I have tried to use the correct facts and figures in my posts, at least in the one case of the distance from the earth to the moon.
If I have made some errors of which I was unaware, I would like to correct them. Please let me know what they are so that I can correct them.

It is absoutely true about the reverse psycholgy . You have just got it backward.It is obviously apparent that some flat earthers approach it with relgious zeal,  avoid all reality, with madness-induced visions, et cetera, et cetera, and so forth.
Most "Round Earthers" don't fall into any of those categories. They just approach it with reality, not believing, but knowing how things really are.from knowledge or experience. There is no "religious zeal" in "Round Earthers"  althought it seems to be pesent from some "Flat Earthers."

But Flat Earthers, don't let that discourage you. Keep coming up with those ideas about how things wouid be if the earth was flat.
I find them interesting and entertaining.
Especially the ones about the blur instead of the horizon and the ship going beyond the horìzon.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2017, 05:21:03 AM by geckothegeek »
Stick close to your P.C's and never go to sea
And You All may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Yes, Never, Never, Never go to sea
Just look out your windows,
Flat ! Flat ! Flat !
Is all that you shall see !

Re: Gleason's Map and Middleton's Map
« Reply #31 on: January 16, 2017, 07:08:38 PM »
These postings were just, as one  poster  put it, "in the spirit of things", in reference to "Gleason's Map."
Since at least similar to the Unipolar AEP and the UN flag maps, just curious as to what FES considered it.
After doing a bit of research it seems Gleason's was just sort of an educatiional exercise for finding times in different parts of the world.
Couldn't find any definite information on Cnristopher except that he was a resident at Morden College.
Gleason did note that it was a projection, so I don't know if he was claiming it was a flat earth map.
Couldn't find any connection between Gleason and  Christopher other than the notation on the map.
Alexander Gleason was a Civil  Engineer who lived in Buffalo, New York. Most likely he would have been familiar with all types of maps.
It's really just a curiosity of trivial interest.
I did find another website which held the map in a lot of reigious zeal. If you didn't believe the earth was flat and you believed the earth is a globe , you weren't  a  " true born again believer".
« Last Edit: January 16, 2017, 07:34:52 PM by geckothegeek »
Stick close to your P.C's and never go to sea
And You All may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Yes, Never, Never, Never go to sea
Just look out your windows,
Flat ! Flat ! Flat !
Is all that you shall see !

Re: Gleason's Map and Middleton's Map
« Reply #32 on: January 31, 2017, 02:56:31 AM »
I'm just curious about the connectons between Gleason, Christopher, "Modern" College, Morden College and the map and its projection.

I haven't been able to find much except "Modern" was a common mis-spelling of "Morden."
Morden College is a charity home in Blackheath, England for retired merchants who have no income.
Christopher  was a retired merchant.
Christopher was a resident at Morden College,
Gleason was a civil engineer.
Gleason lived in Buffalo, New York, in The United States Of America

I stiill haven't  found any logical explanations for any connections for the above.
Did Gleason just make up the notation concerning Christopher and the projection hoping it would add an authentic note to his map ?
Were Gleason and Christopher friends or relatives ?
 
Does some historian have any more detailed information on these connections ?
« Last Edit: January 31, 2017, 03:46:11 AM by geckothegeek »
Stick close to your P.C's and never go to sea
And You All may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Yes, Never, Never, Never go to sea
Just look out your windows,
Flat ! Flat ! Flat !
Is all that you shall see !

Re: Gleason's Map and Middleton's Map
« Reply #33 on: January 31, 2017, 03:18:20 AM »
In reply to SexWarrior who seems to use reverse psychology by pretending that all those who use the globe model would embrace some irrational "religious zeal"/belief, in fact the Flat Earth model is the religious one: https://www.theflatearthsociety.org/home/index.php/featured/religious-references
Ah, great, so now you're putting the words of other organisations in our mouths? If I find a crazy round earther saying nonsense, can I also tell you that your beliefs are equal to his? Or are we going to be mature about this?

And no, there's no reverse psychology at play here. It also has nothing to do with the round earth belief (although of course people do often approach it with religious zeal too). Gecko, specifically, is completely detached from reality, to the point where he often forgets what he said just hours prior. Given how well documented this is here, I find it probable that any and all of his references to "reality" are in fact references to his madness-induced visions.

It's been my observation that it is the flat earth people who  approach it with religious zeal. There is at least one or two "Flat Earth Christian Forums" on the Internet.

I would be interested in a list of any of my posts which are "completely detached from reality."

If I repeat some of my posts, it is just for emphasis, hoping  I will get a reply.

Also a list of "madness induced visions" ?
« Last Edit: January 31, 2017, 03:33:13 AM by geckothegeek »
Stick close to your P.C's and never go to sea
And You All may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Yes, Never, Never, Never go to sea
Just look out your windows,
Flat ! Flat ! Flat !
Is all that you shall see !

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Re: Gleason's Map and Middleton's Map
« Reply #34 on: January 31, 2017, 09:33:12 PM »
I would be interested in a list of any of my posts which are "completely detached from reality."

[...]

Also a list of "madness induced visions" ?
Read the thread again.
<Parsifal> Jesus Christ
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Where live, do the offer adult reading classes?

Re: Gleason's Map and Middleton's Map
« Reply #35 on: May 15, 2017, 02:37:51 AM »
Just additional  comments.
No claims apparently that the map itself was any thing but a projection.
The patent was apparently for the addition of the features by Gleason, intended as a teaching tool.

Also Morden College reported that they could not find any connections between cartography and Christopher , nor any connection of exchanges of correspondence or other means between Alexander Gleason and Joseph Christopher.
The notation of "........J.S. Christopher , Modern (sic) College, Blackheath, England...." must remain something of a mystery.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2017, 02:54:19 AM by geckothegeek »
Stick close to your P.C's and never go to sea
And You All may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Yes, Never, Never, Never go to sea
Just look out your windows,
Flat ! Flat ! Flat !
Is all that you shall see !

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Re: Gleason's Map and Middleton's Map
« Reply #36 on: May 15, 2017, 06:49:51 AM »
You're very excited about this clerical error in print, aren't you? Do you mind if I ask why? Do you find it somehow surprising that an American print company (or the closest equivalent thereof for the time - mimeograph, perhaps? electrotype) would misspell Morden as Modern?
« Last Edit: May 15, 2017, 07:20:53 AM by SexWarrior »
<Parsifal> Jesus Christ
<Parsifal> Do I really have to write 6000-word sentences just to remove all ambiguity from everything I'm saying?

Where live, do the offer adult reading classes?

Re: Gleason's Map and Middleton's Map
« Reply #37 on: May 16, 2017, 01:15:32 AM »
You're very excited about this clerical error in print, aren't you? Do you mind if I ask why? Do you find it somehow surprising that an American print company (or the closest equivalent thereof for the time - mimeograph, perhaps? electrotype) would misspell Morden as Modern?
The error in mis-spelling of "Morden" as "Modern" is probably one of the least exciting things I can think of.
Morden College has explained it is just a commom error.
I'm not excited about the whole thing. Just curious.
I'm just curious about "What is the connection between Alexander Gleason, an American Civil Engineer, Joseph Christopher, a retired English merchant, Morden College, a charity home for poor retired merchants such as Joseph Christopher, and a map which is a copy of the Unipolar Azimuthal Equidistant Projection of the globe."
« Last Edit: May 16, 2017, 01:17:44 AM by geckothegeek »
Stick close to your P.C's and never go to sea
And You All may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Yes, Never, Never, Never go to sea
Just look out your windows,
Flat ! Flat ! Flat !
Is all that you shall see !

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Re: Gleason's Map and Middleton's Map
« Reply #38 on: May 16, 2017, 06:48:47 PM »
The error in mis-spelling of "Morden" as "Modern" is probably one of the least exciting things I can think of.
For once, we agree. It's just that your obsession with it is a bit peculiar, to say the least.

I'm just curious about "What is the connection between Alexander Gleason, an American Civil Engineer, Joseph Christopher, a retired English merchant, Morden College, a charity home for poor retired merchants such as Joseph Christopher
What is so surprising or interesting about two people working together to produce a print? Or is it the fact that an elderly man lived in a retirement home? (You are of course incorrect about it being a "home for poor retired merchants" - that stopped being the case many decades before J. S. Christopher moved there. But you knew that already!)

and a map which is a copy of the Unipolar Azimuthal Equidistant Projection of the globe."
This continues to be incorrect regardless of however many times you say it.
<Parsifal> Jesus Christ
<Parsifal> Do I really have to write 6000-word sentences just to remove all ambiguity from everything I'm saying?

Where live, do the offer adult reading classes?

Re: Gleason's Map and Middleton's Map
« Reply #39 on: May 16, 2017, 07:19:59 PM »
Maybe Gleason and Christopher were just distant relatives or friends.
Might be as simple as that.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2017, 07:34:11 PM by geckothegeek »
Stick close to your P.C's and never go to sea
And You All may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Yes, Never, Never, Never go to sea
Just look out your windows,
Flat ! Flat ! Flat !
Is all that you shall see !