Gleason's Map and Middleton's Map
« on: September 01, 2015, 02:48:51 AM »
What is the FES opinion of Gleason's Map of 1892 ?
http://maps.bpl.org/id/15442

It seems to be just a case of plagiarism. Gleason, or J.S. Cristopher , seem to have just made a copy of the Azimuthmal Equidistant Projection  and claimed it as their invention. The source for the map is not cited. The Azimuthal Equidistant Projection dates to the year 1000.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azimuthal_equidistant_projection

Gleason seems to claim the map as "scientifically and practically correct" and is the world "as it is" and "A New Standard Map Of The World."

pla·gia·rism
/ˈplājəˌrizəm/ 
noun
the practice of taking someone else's work or ideas and passing them off as one's own.
synonyms:   copying, infringement of copyright, piracy, theft, stealing;  More
What is Plagiarism? — Plagiarism.org - Best Practic

Middleton's Map
https://www.digitalcommonwealth.org/search/commonwealth:7h149v83d

Middleton's Map (1878-1899) seems to be a crudely drawn map. More like a child's scrawl .

FES advises this post is permissible under their rules. If it is not I have no objection to their removal of it.

How does the FES regard The United States Navy and The United States Federal Aviation Administration ? The USN uses Oceanic Charts and the FAA uses Sectional Maps. Both are made from projections of the Globe. They are in use every day and have been proven to be accurate and reliable. Does the FES regard the USN and the FAA to be of satanic nature and part of the vast "Round Earth Conspiracy" ?
« Last Edit: September 01, 2015, 10:49:01 PM by geckothegeek »
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Offline Pongo

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Re: Gleason's Map and Middleton's Map
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2015, 02:22:18 AM »
Are you asking if this chapter of the Flat Earth Society has an opinion of the alleged plagiarism of the Azimuthmal Equidistant Projection by Gleason or Christopher?

To the best of my knowledge, no one cares.

Re: Gleason's Map and Middleton's Map
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2015, 04:06:17 AM »
Are you asking if this chapter of the Flat Earth Society has an opinion of the alleged plagiarism of the Azimuthmal Equidistant Projection by Gleason or Christopher?

To the best of my knowledge, no one cares.

See Orbisect-64's  posts on the "Flat Earth Information Repository"

Just wondering if the FES had any background information on J.S. Christopher ?

 The only reference seems to be "The projection of J.S. Christopher". Usually most maps would have some kind of note such as maybe  " The projection of J.S. Christopher Based on the Azimuthal Equidistant Projection." Why is there no such note on the map ?

Because of that . Wondering if Christopher was claiming it was his invention ? It is obviously identical to the Azimuthal Equidistant Projection.

That was the question whether Gleason's Map is regarded as plagiarism ? If he was presenting it as a "New Standard Map Of The World "? If he was presenting it as a flat earth map of the world "As It Is."? Seems to relate to the FES ? Whether or not Gleason or Christopher had any connections with Rowbotham ?

Middleton's Map is so crudely drawn that there would be no question of it not being of any use.

Just two curious maps seemingly intended to be "flat earth maps."

Also the question of any FES opinions of the USN and the FAA in regard  to the maps they use as mentioned in the OP  ?
« Last Edit: September 02, 2015, 04:58:01 AM by geckothegeek »
Stick close to your P.C's and never go to sea
And You All may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Yes, Never, Never, Never go to sea
Just look out your windows,
Flat ! Flat ! Flat !
Is all that you shall see !

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Offline jroa

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Re: Gleason's Map and Middleton's Map
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2015, 02:10:01 PM »
To the best of my knowledge, no one cares.

I agree with this statement, other than googlethegeek. 

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Offline SexWarrior

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Re: Gleason's Map and Middleton's Map
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2015, 03:03:01 PM »
Right, so the entirety of your argument is "those two maps look very similar, and that third map is ugly and I don't like it".

Enthralling. I can foresee a great discussion developing from these profound propositions.
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Re: Gleason's Map and Middleton's Map
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2015, 03:58:23 PM »
The  comment was meant to question Gleason's Map. If Gleason had cited the map was simply made from the Azimuthal Equidistant Projection instead of "J.S. Christopher's Projection" there wouldn't have been any questions about plagiarism.

Other than claiming that there is no Flat Earth Map, some flat earthers have been claiming the Azimuthal Equidistant Projection is the Flat Earth Map and that is an accurate map of the earth . This seems to be what Gleason is claiming for his map.


 And the comment on Middleton's Map was simply whether it was intended for any practical use due to its crudeness.

I am guilty of making the old Round Earth mistake of dealing in reality. LOL.

Just wondered if the FES regarded Gleason's Map about the same as they regard sceptimatic ?

PS- Do you have any comments on the USN and the FAA as mentioned previously ?
« Last Edit: September 02, 2015, 04:19:41 PM by geckothegeek »
Stick close to your P.C's and never go to sea
And You All may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Yes, Never, Never, Never go to sea
Just look out your windows,
Flat ! Flat ! Flat !
Is all that you shall see !

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Offline SexWarrior

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Re: Gleason's Map and Middleton's Map
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2015, 09:32:11 AM »
Just wondered if the FES regarded Gleason's Map about the same as they regard sceptimatic ?
I have no idea what you mean by that.

I am guilty of making the old Round Earth mistake of dealing in reality. LOL.
Ah, yes, good old "reality". How's that religion working out for you?

PS- Do you have any comments on the USN and the FAA as mentioned previously ?
Any projection can be used for navigation if used skilfully. I guess "reality" precludes you from understanding computers and/or geometry and forces you to resort to "Satanism".
« Last Edit: September 03, 2015, 09:41:57 AM by SexWarrior »
<Parsifal> Jesus Christ
<Parsifal> Do I really have to write 6000-word sentences just to remove all ambiguity from everything I'm saying?

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Re: Gleason's Map and Middleton's Map
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2015, 03:34:28 PM »
(1)Just wondered if the FES regarded Gleason's Map about the same as they regard sceptimatic ?
I have no idea what you mean by that.

(2)I am guilty of making the old Round Earth mistake of dealing in reality. LOL.
Ah, yes, good old "reality". How's that religion working out for you?

(3)PS- Do you have any comments on the USN and the FAA as mentioned previously ?
Any projection can be used for navigation if used skilfully. I guess "reality" precludes you from understanding computers and/or geometry and forces you to resort to "Satanism".

(1) In the sense that Gleason's claims for his map in relation to sceptimatic's claims for his genius.

(2) Reality ? It works every day where I have worked.

(3)Glad to hear that. I've worked in the areas of using projections of maps , geometry and computers to some degree of being used skillfully. Or at least a lot of people have used them skillfully without resorting to "Satanism." Are you now acknowledging that maps are made from projections of the globe ?

Gleason's map is like the sun. "The sun is not a spotlight. It acts like a spotlight but it isn't a spotlight." Gleason's map  looks like and acts like a copy of the Azimuthal Equidistant Projection of the Globe but that doesn't mean it is a copy of the Azimuthal  Equidistant Projection of the Globe.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2015, 05:05:41 PM by geckothegeek »
Stick close to your P.C's and never go to sea
And You All may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Yes, Never, Never, Never go to sea
Just look out your windows,
Flat ! Flat ! Flat !
Is all that you shall see !

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Offline Pongo

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Re: Gleason's Map and Middleton's Map
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2015, 06:43:13 PM »
For thousands of years maps weren't made as projections of globes and people got around just fine with them.  From locations scratched in the dirt to seafarers colonizing the world.  It's only after all the areas on the map were filled in did people start claiming they were projections of a globe.  Funny how that is, isn't it?

Re: Gleason's Map and Middleton's Map
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2015, 09:08:04 PM »
For thousands of years maps weren't made as projections of globes and people got around just fine with them.  From locations scratched in the dirt to seafarers colonizing the world.  It's only after all the areas on the map were filled in did people start claiming they were projections of a globe.  Funny how that is, isn't it?

What's so funny about it ? For thousands of years people didn't travel very far from home by foot, horse, mule or camel . But later people started traveling by boats and stagecoaches and they needed maps. Then they started air travel and they needed better maps. Just sort of an evolutionary process. As travel progressed, maps, and then better maps were needed. That's where various types of maps-made from various kinds of projections were needed. So...What's so funny about that ?

But the subject was Gleason's and Middleton's maps. They really are based on a projection even if they are claimed they aren't projections.Is denial the same as lying ?
« Last Edit: September 03, 2015, 09:13:48 PM by geckothegeek »
Stick close to your P.C's and never go to sea
And You All may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Yes, Never, Never, Never go to sea
Just look out your windows,
Flat ! Flat ! Flat !
Is all that you shall see !

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Offline SexWarrior

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Re: Gleason's Map and Middleton's Map
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2015, 10:57:40 PM »
(1) In the sense that Gleason's claims for his map in relation to sceptimatic's claims for his genius.
This attempt at explaining what you mean really doesn't help. I'm just going to guess what you mean, since you're unable to articulate yourself.

Gleason's map is pretty accurate, and unless you can name the original author of the projection in question, there is no one to plagiarise from.

(2) Reality ? It works every day where I have worked.
I see you decided to ignore my use of quotation marks. Your "reality" is very different from reality, and this is a great example of it. You see what you want to see, and only that.

(3)Glad to hear that. I've worked in the areas of using projections of maps , geometry and computers to some degree of being used skillfully. Or at least a lot of people have used them skillfully without resorting to "Satanism." Are you now acknowledging that maps are made from projections of the globe ?
No. This is, once again, a great example of you considering your religious convictions to somehow hold weight in the observable universe. They do not.

Gleason's map  looks like and acts like a copy of the Azimuthal Equidistant Projection of the Globe but that doesn't mean it is a copy of the Azimuthal  Equidistant Projection of the Globe.
Define "copy".

But the subject was Gleason's and Middleton's maps. They really are based on a projection even if they are claimed they aren't projections.Is denial the same as lying ?
Please substantiate or rescind this claim. We have no business dealing with unfalsifiable hypotheses here.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2015, 11:01:06 PM by SexWarrior »
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Re: Gleason's Map and Middleton's Map
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2015, 02:27:24 AM »
(1) In the sense that Gleason's claims for his map in relation to sceptimatic's claims for his genius.
This attempt at explaining what you mean really doesn't help. I'm just going to guess what you mean, since you're unable to articulate yourself.

Gleason's map is pretty accurate, and unless you can name the original author of the projection in question, there is no one to plagiarise from.

(2) Reality ? It works every day where I have worked.
I see you decided to ignore my use of quotation marks. Your "reality" is very different from reality, and this is a great example of it. You see what you want to see, and only that.

(3)Glad to hear that. I've worked in the areas of using projections of maps , geometry and computers to some degree of being used skillfully. Or at least a lot of people have used them skillfully without resorting to "Satanism." Are you now acknowledging that maps are made from projections of the globe ?
No. This is, once again, a great example of you considering your religious convictions to somehow hold weight in the observable universe. They do not.

Gleason's map  looks like and acts like a copy of the Azimuthal Equidistant Projection of the Globe but that doesn't mean it is a copy of the Azimuthal  Equidistant Projection of the Globe.
Define "copy".

But the subject was Gleason's and Middleton's maps. They really are based on a projection even if they are claimed they aren't projections.Is denial the same as lying ?
Please substantiate or rescind this claim. We have no business dealing with unfalsifiable hypotheses here.

Gleason's Map is so obviously identical with the Azimuthal Equidistant Projection that one would assume he just copied it. He did include showing all the countries. Most of these maps just show land areas shaded green , brown, etc. You can argue whether he copied or not but it is identical to the projection. It was just curious that there was no note as to its true source.

Here is some information on the history of the Azimuthal Eqidistant Projection including the original source.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azimuthal_equidistant_projection

I think Middleton's Map even went to a statement that it was not a projection.

By reality I mean that the earth is a globe and there are projections and Gleason's map closely resembles one.

As for Middleton's map I don't see how anyone could consider it being accurate in any sense.

If you can prove that Gleason's map doesn't resemble the Azimuthal Equidistant Projection I would be interested in knowing your reason. That is where the suspicion lies. Gleason claimed it was J.S. Christopher's projection. I can see this debate is going the usual flat earth way.

I have evidence that the map is a copy but you have no evidence that it isn't. And if you can prove these projections are accurate in all details such as distances and shapes and sizes south of the equator I would be interested. If you can show me an accurate flat earth map of the entire earth I would be interested. Even the Flat Earth Society says there is none.

If you really have doubts or beliefs about the accuracy of Gleason's or Middleton's maps I would suggest you consult authorities on the subject if you question my opinions.

I'll just leave it at that. No further comments. I will leave any further research up to you.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2015, 02:37:39 AM by geckothegeek »
Stick close to your P.C's and never go to sea
And You All may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Yes, Never, Never, Never go to sea
Just look out your windows,
Flat ! Flat ! Flat !
Is all that you shall see !

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Offline SexWarrior

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Re: Gleason's Map and Middleton's Map
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2015, 07:46:30 PM »
Gleason's Map is so obviously identical with the Azimuthal Equidistant Projection that one would assume he just copied it.
But it's not identical. What you mean is "I think these are similar, and that's somehow bad". I don't understand why you think anyone cares.

It was just curious that there was no note as to its true source.
Define "true".

I think Middleton's Map even went to a statement that it was not a projection.
Yes.

By reality I mean that the earth is a globe and there are projections and Gleason's map closely resembles one.
Yes, I know what you mean. That's why I called it a religious conviction and insisted on differentiating it from actual reality.

As for Middleton's map I don't see how anyone could consider it being accurate in any sense.
My guess is that you don't understand what "accurate" means. Perhaps you mean "precise".

If you can prove that Gleason's map doesn't resemble the Azimuthal Equidistant Projection I would be interested in knowing your reason.
Define "resembles". For all I care, a dog resembles a cow because each has four legs. Your request is to falsify an unfalsifiable hypothesis. Unsurprisingly, I won't do that because I don't waste my times on the likes of you.

I have evidence that the map is a copy
Ah, you should have said so! By all means, present it! I'm all ears!

If you really have doubts or beliefs about the accuracy of Gleason's or Middleton's maps I would suggest you consult authorities on the subject if you question my opinions.

I'll just leave it at that. No further comments. I will leave any further research up to you.
rofl, what a pathetic cop out
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Re: Gleason's Map and Middleton's Map
« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2015, 12:39:27 AM »
I suppose you could say that Gleason's map is not identical with the original Azimuthal Equidstant Map in one sense . Gleason just copied the map, filled in the countries and claimed he had made a "New Standard Map of the World 'As It Is'".

Why don't flat earthers check these things for themselves ? Just google on "Azimuthal Equidistant Projection" and you will find an illustration of the map , the history and the source for the map.

Research is not a cop out. If you need information you have to do some research on any subject. In this case it was map projections.

I know this forum for what it is . So no matter what any one posts you are going to say it is fake.
It's your forum. It's your game. But as long as I don't break any of your rules I'm still going to post the true facts about the earth when the opportunity presents itself. That's my game. I have a lot of fun at it as a lot others do. LOL.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2015, 12:48:19 AM by geckothegeek »
Stick close to your P.C's and never go to sea
And You All may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Yes, Never, Never, Never go to sea
Just look out your windows,
Flat ! Flat ! Flat !
Is all that you shall see !

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Offline SexWarrior

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Re: Gleason's Map and Middleton's Map
« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2015, 11:51:43 AM »
Gleason just copied the map
You keep saying that. You have yet to provide any evidence whatsoever. You claim to have it, so go ahead.

I have a lot of fun at it as a lot others do. LOL.
You really don't come across as having a lot of fun. All this religious zeal must be exhausting.
<Parsifal> Jesus Christ
<Parsifal> Do I really have to write 6000-word sentences just to remove all ambiguity from everything I'm saying?

Where live, do the offer adult reading classes?

Re: Gleason's Map and Middleton's Map
« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2015, 02:54:36 PM »
Gleason just copied the map
You keep saying that. You have yet to provide any evidence whatsoever. You claim to have it, so go ahead.

I have a lot of fun at it as a lot others do. LOL.
You really don't come across as having a lot of fun. All this religious zeal must be exhausting.

It's not religious zeal. It's just the fun of posting true round earth facts and figures in to de-bunk weird flat earth ideas which are most often so inane and insane .Most of the time flat earth ideas are so stupid it's funny. Such as flat earth notions about the horizon. My excuse is that I worked so long as a technician that I am a confirmed realist.  LOL.
Stick close to your P.C's and never go to sea
And You All may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Yes, Never, Never, Never go to sea
Just look out your windows,
Flat ! Flat ! Flat !
Is all that you shall see !

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Re: Gleason's Map and Middleton's Map
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2015, 03:35:21 PM »
yes it was most definitely "made up" because it does not fit actual observation

In the flat Earth model only less than 25% of the Earth surface would be lit at any one time while in the round Earth model about 50% would be lit at any one time.

Assuming that people who believe the Earth is flat are most likely scattered around the world it would be fairly simple to pinpoint their location and then see if their local observation best matches the FE or RE models.

In the FE model the Antarctic even at the height of summer would only have a few hours of daylight at any one spot. Even places like Melbourne would experience a much shorter day because the sun is having to speed up as it moves to the tropic of Capricorn to complete a rotation in 24 hours.   

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Flat+Earth+model&view=detailv2&&id=74A8DDBF3688F974A994F68F9B47D1B28A6DE81D&selectedIndex=9&ccid=J3PUMrNH&simid=607995841707182624&thid=JN.%2bo%2bYPgI%2f0KuKABLH978DUw&ajaxhist=0

This simple animation of the FE model illustrates why the FE model does not work. A person standing in Melbourne Australia would only get light for a maximum of maybe 9 hours at the height of summer but the actual longest day is more like 14.75 hours.

It does not take any great deal of money or effort to prove that the FE model is a sham just by sun observation.


Re: Gleason's Map and Middleton's Map
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2015, 03:47:13 PM »
The whole idea of a flat earth is a sham.
Stick close to your P.C's and never go to sea
And You All may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Yes, Never, Never, Never go to sea
Just look out your windows,
Flat ! Flat ! Flat !
Is all that you shall see !

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Re: Gleason's Map and Middleton's Map
« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2015, 04:42:00 PM »
The whole idea of a flat earth is a sham.

You have been warned multiple times. You should know the rules by this point. Have a day off to review them again.
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You're doing God's work, junker.

Re: Gleason's Map and Middleton's Map
« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2016, 01:55:44 AM »
Some curious aspects of "Gleason's Map"
The map has a note of "The projection of J.S. Christopher, Modern (sic) College, Blackheath, England."
https://www.digitalcommonwealth.org/search/commonwealth:7h149v85z
I have searched for information of "J.S. Christopher", but have found none.
Also , there is no "Modern" College in Blackheath, England, but there is a "Morden" College in Blackheath which seems to be sort of a charity operation as a home for poor merchants.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morden_College
This is rather curious in regard to Gleason's Map ?
« Last Edit: March 05, 2016, 02:18:06 AM by geckothegeek »
Stick close to your P.C's and never go to sea
And You All may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Yes, Never, Never, Never go to sea
Just look out your windows,
Flat ! Flat ! Flat !
Is all that you shall see !