The Flat Earth Society
Flat Earth Discussion Boards => Flat Earth Theory => Topic started by: Confused 001 on April 08, 2017, 03:08:44 AM
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Please explain how it shows on the flat earth maps why it is a longer distance from Australia to south America than it is from uae to Australia? Also when I flew from Doha to Melbourne I flew over Indian ocean but you can't go that route on the flat earth map, the flat earth has you over India . also if you circumnavigate earth if it is a globe then it can travel in a straight path round and on flat earth you go in a circle so you stop going straight and start adding time and distance.? If maps wrong then how can it be fixed without changing distance between the different points?
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Also when I flew from Doha to Melbourne I flew over Indian ocean
How did you confirm that?
also if you circumnavigate earth if it is a globe then it can travel in a straight path round and on flat earth you go in a circle so you stop going straight and start adding time and distance.? If maps wrong then how can it be fixed without changing distance between the different points?
What? Circumnavigation works just fine in FET.
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What? Circumnavigation works just fine in FET.
Sure, if you explain somehow that space is warped at the southern/outer latitudes so you can appear to be moving the same speed but travelling 4 times as far on that time.
A non stop flight from Los Angeles, USA to Seoul, South Korea takes roughly the same amount of time as a non stop flight from Sydney, Australia to Santiago de Chile. On a flat earth, the latter flight would take far longer, would it not? Unless the plane were travelling at supersonic speeds, the similarity of flight time is only possible on a sphere.
None of the map projections account for this and the best answer one can get out of a flat earth theorist is "we don't know" and even "we can't know" as if cartography is some arcane art beyond out comprehension.
So the argument is "we don't have any idea of how to represent our world view in any way that fits with the assertions we make but we know you're wrong."
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What? Circumnavigation works just fine in FET.
Sure...
You should've stopped there. The rest of your wall of text is irrelevant. Did you actually read the thread?
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why it is a longer distance from Australia to south America than it is from uae to Australia?
Sorry, you've lost me. How did you establish this?
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What? Circumnavigation works just fine in FET.
Sure...
You should've stopped there. The rest of your wall of text is irrelevant. Did you actually read the thread?
I did - the flat earth map projection, no matter which one you choose, doesn't account for the similarity in flight times without using excuses like "non-euclidian space"
Take any flight in the northern hemisphere - find a flight in the southern hemisphere with similar flight time. Put them on a flat earth map and compare the distances.
If any map projection is going to accurately represent how the world actually looks, it need to somehow explain the flight times of similar routes that thousands of people take every day. Any one of them can tell you how long it took and any pilot can tell you where they flew and how they got there.
Where is your alternative? Do you have a map that explains this?
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The map is a projection. The distances are meant to be accurate along longitude. There is no flat earth map because there are no flat earth cartographers.
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The map is a projection. The distances are meant to be accurate along longitude. There is no flat earth map because there are no flat earth cartographers.
There is no need for a cartographer. It would be sufficient for the purposes of these discussions if someone merely sketched out a rough drawing that showed how it is possible to show the size, shape and distances between the continents and major airports in a fashion that accounts for the actual recorded data from tens of thousands of flights as accumulated here: http://flightaware.com/ including all nonstop flights in the southern hemisphere.
In order to make it even easier, you could cut out the continents from an exiting map that is known for showing them in the correct relative size and shape such as the authragraphic projection: https://www.wired.com/2016/11/weird-globe-folding-map-isnt-perfect-close/ (Interesting to note that this flat map can be folded into a rough sphere and then even the distances between continents are correct)
So once you have the correct shapes and sizes, the distances between any two points on the same continent would all be roughly correct. Then all you have to do is arrange them on a flat surface of whatever shape would accommodate the idea of a flat earth (who says it has to be a perfectly round disc?), as long as all distances between major airports on different continents was also close to being correct. (Note that this is where the flat (unfolded) version of the authragraph map falls short, not to mention that you would fly over the edge of the world (or at least off of the territory shown on the map) if you head west from Africa or Europe or east from the Americas.)
If the earth were truly flat, this would not be that much harder than a child putting together a jig saw puzzle. The simple fact that after all these years of people debating the shape of the earth, no one has ever managed this simple feat is quite revealing.
Meanwhile the distances and flight paths calculated on a great circle mapper based on the geometry of a sphere all work out to be the same distance and path that the airlines fly on nonstop flights (with a few exceptions based on geopolitics as airlines sometimes tend to avoid flying over war zones). See: http://www.gcmap.com/
So you have one model of a flat earth that no one can even represent on a map equivalent to a child's drawing that still roughly works to account for all distances that are well documented and flown thousands of times a year (there are over 3.5 million commercial airline flights each year, not including military and private flights).
And then you have another model of the earth (the globe and resulting calculators based on a sphere) that when referred to matches up with the extensive database of actual flights and the reports of individuals who fly those routes (see http://creation.com/a-direct-test-of-the-flat-earth-model-flight-times ).
I wonder what can be concluded from the relative success of these two models, one that has not ever been loosely mapped out even by those who fervently believe in it, and another one that can be used effectively and reliably to show the time it should and does take to fly between any two airports that have nonstop service? Any one want to venture a guess as to why there is such a huge discrepancy between the two models and their ability to be accurately represented?
This was also debated (if you can call it that as I am still waiting for anyone to offer a reasonable rebuttal to most of the points I made) on another thread starting with this post: https://forum.tfes.org/index.php?topic=5888.msg113568#msg113568
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I believe that İntikam was creating a "true" flat earth map at one stage, did they ever finish it?
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Can you ever really be sure what intikam is saying?
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Please explain how it shows on the flat earth maps why it is a longer distance from Australia to south America than it is from uae to Australia? Also when I flew from Doha to Melbourne I flew over Indian ocean but you can't go that route on the flat earth map, the flat earth has you over India . also if you circumnavigate earth if it is a globe then it can travel in a straight path round and on flat earth you go in a circle so you stop going straight and start adding time and distance.? If maps wrong then how can it be fixed without changing distance between the different points?
A Taiwanese woman gave birth 6 hours into a flight from Bali to LAX, which is 19 hour flight. They had to make an emergency landing in Anchorage Alaska, which is a 23 hour flight from Bali to Alaska. 6 hours into a flight from Bali to LAX and you go over 2,000 miles off course to get to Alaska? That emergency landing doesn't make sense on a globe. It does on a Flat Earth map, though. On a Flat Earth map, Anchorage is in the middle of Bali and LAX.
I don't know if that proves anything, but it sure is suspicious.
What the video below or just google "Taiwanese woman gives birth on plane" and see for yourself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eR6fQ1zkBhA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eR6fQ1zkBhA)
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Please explain how it shows on the flat earth maps why it is a longer distance from Australia to south America than it is from uae to Australia? Also when I flew from Doha to Melbourne I flew over Indian ocean but you can't go that route on the flat earth map, the flat earth has you over India . also if you circumnavigate earth if it is a globe then it can travel in a straight path round and on flat earth you go in a circle so you stop going straight and start adding time and distance.? If maps wrong then how can it be fixed without changing distance between the different points?
A Taiwanese woman gave birth 6 hours into a flight from Bali to LAX, which is 19 hour flight. They had to make an emergency landing in Anchorage Alaska, which is a 23 hour flight from Bali to Alaska. 6 hours into a flight from Bali to LAX and you go over 2,000 miles off course to get to Alaska? That emergency landing doesn't make sense on a globe. It does on a Flat Earth map, though. On a Flat Earth map, Anchorage is in the middle of Bali and LAX.
I don't know if that proves anything, but it sure is suspicious.
What the video below or just google "Taiwanese woman gives birth on plane" and see for yourself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eR6fQ1zkBhA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eR6fQ1zkBhA)
The flight was from Taipei, Taiwan to LA: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/mom-gives-birth-19-hour-flight-from-taiwan_us_561ea2d2e4b050c6c4a3e94d
If you connect those two locations on a globe, you will quickly discover that like most flights, the shortest route is what is called a great circle route. On a flat map, that kind of route appears curved, but on a sphere or a globe, that curved path is the shortest route. Here is a website that allows you to calculate the shortest route on a spherical earth:
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=tpe-lax
And guess what, the great circle route from Taipei (not Bali) to Los Angleles goes fairly close to Anchorage, Alaska. At the very least, halfway through that flight, Anchorage would have been the closest major airport as most of the flight is over the open ocean
See this page for a record of a recent China Airlines flight along with a map of the flight path: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/CAL8/history/20170428/1550Z/RCTP/KLAX
This kind of flight path is not proof either way as it has a strong north/south component and is located in the northern hemisphere so it would appear to follow a similar path on the north pole azimuthal projection which the flat earthers use. The best way to see how different a flight path can be on a round earth versus a flat earth is to compare the path of a mostly east/west flight in the southern hemisphere such as the flights discussed here: https://www.metabunk.org/flat-earth-theory-debunked-by-short-flights-qf27-qf28-from-australia-to-south-america.t6483/
The second picture in that other thread shows very clearly how on a globe a "curved" path is actually a straight line when viewed from above.
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Please explain how it shows on the flat earth maps why it is a longer distance from Australia to south America than it is from uae to Australia? Also when I flew from Doha to Melbourne I flew over Indian ocean but you can't go that route on the flat earth map, the flat earth has you over India . also if you circumnavigate earth if it is a globe then it can travel in a straight path round and on flat earth you go in a circle so you stop going straight and start adding time and distance.? If maps wrong then how can it be fixed without changing distance between the different points?
A Taiwanese woman gave birth 6 hours into a flight from Bali to LAX, which is 19 hour flight. They had to make an emergency landing in Anchorage Alaska, which is a 23 hour flight from Bali to Alaska. 6 hours into a flight from Bali to LAX and you go over 2,000 miles off course to get to Alaska? That emergency landing doesn't make sense on a globe. It does on a Flat Earth map, though. On a Flat Earth map, Anchorage is in the middle of Bali and LAX.
I don't know if that proves anything, but it sure is suspicious.
What the video below or just google "Taiwanese woman gives birth on plane" and see for yourself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eR6fQ1zkBhA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eR6fQ1zkBhA)
Since you like getting your education from YouTube here is one from a pilot explaining just why that would be.
https://youtu.be/JAsEVdhAss0
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The flight was from Taipei, Taiwan to LA: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/mom-gives-birth-19-hour-flight-from-taiwan_us_561ea2d2e4b050c6c4a3e94d
If you connect those two locations on a globe, you will quickly discover that like most flights, the shortest route is what is called a great circle route. On a flat map, that kind of route appears curved, but on a sphere or a globe, that curved path is the shortest route. Here is a website that allows you to calculate the shortest route on a spherical earth:
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=tpe-lax
And guess what, the great circle route from Taipei (not Bali) to Los Angleles goes fairly close to Anchorage, Alaska. At the very least, halfway through that flight, Anchorage would have been the closest major airport as most of the flight is over the open ocean
See this page for a record of a recent China Airlines flight along with a map of the flight path: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/CAL8/history/20170428/1550Z/RCTP/KLAX
This kind of flight path is not proof either way as it has a strong north/south component and is located in the northern hemisphere so it would appear to follow a similar path on the north pole azimuthal projection which the flat earthers use. The best way to see how different a flight path can be on a round earth versus a flat earth is to compare the path of a mostly east/west flight in the southern hemisphere such as the flights discussed here: https://www.metabunk.org/flat-earth-theory-debunked-by-short-flights-qf27-qf28-from-australia-to-south-america.t6483/
The second picture in that other thread shows very clearly how on a globe a "curved" path is actually a straight line when viewed from above.
Nirmala,
I appreciate the response. I don't claim to know a lot about how this stuff works and I've been reading and watching videos that both attempt to prove and debunk a flat earth. I'm not an FE'er, but there are a lot of things that don't make sense, on either side, to me. I continually tell myself, regardless of flat earth or globe, I am learning things that I slept through in school. Thanks for taking the time to explain things without being condescending.
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Since you like getting your education from YouTube here is one from a pilot explaining just why that would be.
https://youtu.be/JAsEVdhAss0
Thanks for the video. I realize you're probably annoyed with Flat Earther's, so I'll overlook the condescending tone in your previous post, but I promise I am not coming in here with an agenda. I'm questioning things I've never questioned before, so I'm really just looking for answers.
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The flight was from Taipei, Taiwan to LA: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/mom-gives-birth-19-hour-flight-from-taiwan_us_561ea2d2e4b050c6c4a3e94d
If you connect those two locations on a globe, you will quickly discover that like most flights, the shortest route is what is called a great circle route. On a flat map, that kind of route appears curved, but on a sphere or a globe, that curved path is the shortest route. Here is a website that allows you to calculate the shortest route on a spherical earth:
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=tpe-lax
And guess what, the great circle route from Taipei (not Bali) to Los Angleles goes fairly close to Anchorage, Alaska. At the very least, halfway through that flight, Anchorage would have been the closest major airport as most of the flight is over the open ocean
See this page for a record of a recent China Airlines flight along with a map of the flight path: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/CAL8/history/20170428/1550Z/RCTP/KLAX
This kind of flight path is not proof either way as it has a strong north/south component and is located in the northern hemisphere so it would appear to follow a similar path on the north pole azimuthal projection which the flat earthers use. The best way to see how different a flight path can be on a round earth versus a flat earth is to compare the path of a mostly east/west flight in the southern hemisphere such as the flights discussed here: https://www.metabunk.org/flat-earth-theory-debunked-by-short-flights-qf27-qf28-from-australia-to-south-america.t6483/
The second picture in that other thread shows very clearly how on a globe a "curved" path is actually a straight line when viewed from above.
Nirmala,
I appreciate the response. I don't claim to know a lot about how this stuff works and I've been reading and watching videos that both attempt to prove and debunk a flat earth. I'm not an FE'er, but there are a lot of things that don't make sense, on either side, to me. I continually tell myself, regardless of flat earth or globe, I am learning things that I slept through in school. Thanks for taking the time to explain things without being condescending.
Yes, I also came to the flat earth theory with a fairly open attitude, and I also found that I learned a lot about perspective, refraction, astronomy and other topics while exploring this theory. However, over time I personally found that there were a lot more aspects of the flat earth theory that do not stand up to close scrutiny or analysis, whereas I have yet to find a criticism of the round earth model that is truly impossible to account for. That has been my journey with all of this, and I wish you all the best as you explore it for yourself.
As with most online forums and discussions, it is pretty easy to slip into personal attacks. So you may want to put on some protective gear when you post on here ;)
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Yes, I also came to the flat earth theory with a fairly open attitude, and I also found that I learned a lot about perspective, refraction, astronomy and other topics while exploring this theory. However, over time I personally found that there were a lot more aspects of the flat earth theory that do not stand up to close scrutiny or analysis, whereas I have yet to find a criticism of the round earth model that is truly impossible to account for. That has been my journey with all of this, and I wish you all the best as you explore it for yourself.
As with most online forums and discussions, it is pretty easy to slip into personal attacks. So you may want to put on some protective gear when you post on here ;)
Thanks! Yes, I'm starting to learn a lot through this process. I don't want to be guilty of cognitive dissonance, so I am truly open to the truth. I'm not starting from a point of bias where I'm trying to fit truth into my belief. Truth can stand to scrutiny. I've just blindly believed things without understanding, because that's what we were taught. I have hit a place in my life where that isn't good enough and I need to understand it better. I'm actually grateful for flat earth theory because it has made me question and challenge what I know. Truth always finds you, though, if you are honest about it.
I know that you can't take attacks online personally, but I always appreciate being treated respectfully. ;D
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Please explain how it shows on the flat earth maps why it is a longer distance from Australia to south America than it is from uae to Australia? Also when I flew from Doha to Melbourne I flew over Indian ocean but you can't go that route on the flat earth map, the flat earth has you over India . also if you circumnavigate earth if it is a globe then it can travel in a straight path round and on flat earth you go in a circle so you stop going straight and start adding time and distance.? If maps wrong then how can it be fixed without changing distance between the different points?
Which flat earth map is the one to which you are referring ?
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I think Flat earth map isn't wrong
Do you have one that can be used to calculated long range airplane flights?
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Please explain how it shows on the flat earth maps why it is a longer distance from Australia to south America than it is from uae to Australia? Also when I flew from Doha to Melbourne I flew over Indian ocean but you can't go that route on the flat earth map, the flat earth has you over India . also if you circumnavigate earth if it is a globe then it can travel in a straight path round and on flat earth you go in a circle so you stop going straight and start adding time and distance.? If maps wrong then how can it be fixed without changing distance between the different points?
There is really no flat earth map. The only so-called flat earth map (the one with the "ice ring") is actually the Azimuthal Equidistant Projection (of the globe). Like most projections, there is distortion in some areas.The AEP is distorted south of the equator.
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There is really no flat earth map. The only so-called flat earth map (the one with the "ice ring") is actually the Azimuthal Equidistant Projection (of the globe). Like most projections, there is distortion in some areas.The AEP is distorted south of the equator.
Not only south of equator but anywhere except the vicinity of the north pole – although in the northern areas the distortion is not very dramatic.
The relation between the length of the equator and its distance from the north pole is 2π=6.283 on a flat map but only slightly more than 4 on a globe (if the globe were a perfect sphere, it would obviously be exactly 4). Even this is a difference remarkable enough so that it could be measured with today's technology.
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Since you like getting your education from YouTube here is one from a pilot explaining just why that would be.
https://youtu.be/JAsEVdhAss0
I'm really just looking for answers.
You're out of luck. There are no answers here. Only a painfully sparse wiki and FAQ that provide very little information.
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I think Flat earth map isn't wrong
Hi there. It seems that your only goal is to advertise your website where you are trying to sell crap. You haven't contributed anything. I will be removing your posts. You are welcome to remove your store link from your signature and participate in the forum. If you continue to try to just shill your crapware, it will result in a ban.
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So i have just read all of this and i still dont have a definitive understanding on how the flight paths work.. between australia and south america... ??? ??? ??? can i have more info and also as a newbee why do we advocate the flat earth and debunk the round earthers but yet they are the only ones that can supply a true map of the earth or at least a satellite image that we say is not true... why dont we provide them with the true satellite image of the word being flat...
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So i have just read all of this and i still dont have a definitive understanding on how the flight paths work.. between australia and south america... ??? ??? ??? can i have more info and also as a newbee why do we advocate the flat earth and debunk the round earthers but yet they are the only ones that can supply a true map of the earth or at least a satellite image that we say is not true... why dont we provide them with the true satellite image of the word being flat...
I'd start out by saying I don't believe the earth is flat.
But the answer to your question is because, simply, there is no map of a flat earth which corresponds to the world you see around you. No-one in the FE community seems particularly interested in building a model of how the world works which ties in with actual, observable data - such as distances between places, flight times, the shape of places, countries, islands, the length of the day and direction the sun appears to be at any given time of the day etc.
Which is strange because if the world was flat, then creating a map of it would be simple, from a cartographical perspective.
Problems arise when you try and project a 2D image onto a 3D surface, or vice versa. This is why all maps of a spherical earth, when viewed on a bit of paper or a screen, are distorted. Look at Google Maps - countries closer to the poles are stretched and appear far greater in area than they are in reality. Similarly the map on this website of the flat earth is hugely distorted - Australia is stretched out very thin, for example.
If you want an example that's easier to envisage, imagine taking a square bit of paper and wrapping it around an orange. By the time you get to the back, the paper is all crumpled up and distorted. Similarly if you tried to peel the orange and form a flat image, you wouldn't be able to. Gaps would appear where the peel has been split open and laid out flat - or you would have to stretch the skin to make it work.
The only time a map of the world actually appears to correspond with reality is when it is projected onto the outside of a sphere. Then, it ties in with things like flight times.
Now, what does this tell us about the shape of the earth?
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yes everything about FE community is bases on speculation... so if the rest of the world has made the effort of hoaxing picture of the round earth.. hoax satilites... hoax flight times and flight paths... how is it that the FE cant provide visible evidence.. nothing can the proven.. but yet we must believe... so then where is the so called dome.. where does it end or do u say that if i want to reach the end of the Flat earth its impossible as it goes on to infinity... i really hope thats not the answer because then the dome theory falls out the buss.. and how hight the dome... if you all say there is no satellites how do u measure the how high the dome is... really nothing i read or listen to has any real basis to prove it on ....
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so strange that we dont see evidence of the flat earth
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so strange that we dont see evidence of the flat earth
You decided to double post just to add absolutely nothing to the topic? Please don't do that. Warned.
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So i have just read all of this and i still dont have a definitive understanding on how the flight paths work.. between australia and south america... ??? ??? ??? can i have more info and also as a newbee why do we advocate the flat earth and debunk the round earthers but yet they are the only ones that can supply a true map of the earth or at least a satellite image that we say is not true... why dont we provide them with the true satellite image of the word being flat...
The "flight path" question has been successfully ignored in several different threads recently. I would not expect an answer anytime soon.
It does bring up another question, though: How is it that not having an answer to such a simple question is acceptable to a believer in FET? Flights between Australia and South Africa happen on an almost daily basis. They arrive on-time.
No one wants to answer the actual question regarding flight paths and times, but perhaps someone can clue me in on the thought process here.
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so strange that we dont see evidence of the flat earth
Here you go.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNefFfo4EpU
It's a 7 year long research done by many scientists to find the real shape of our earth. They're either all very good liars or we actually live on a flat earth where BIGGER LIERS have constructed a false "Global" reality to hid something from us. I wouldn't be surpised, ONE BIG LIE (Moon landing) and all the puffed up pride has just led to series of lies that have gone too far (that's it's not funny anymore).
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Here you go.
VID
It's a 7 year long research done by many scientists to find the real shape of our earth.
There's no proof they are or were "scientists". No statement of qualifications, no indication of what work they've done, etc.
They're either all very good liars or we actually live on a flat earth where BIGGER LIERS have constructed a false "Global" reality to hid something from us. I wouldn't be surpised, ONE BIG LIE (Moon landing) and all the puffed up pride has just led to series of lies that have gone too far (that's it's not funny anymore).
It's a mockumentary. A Spinal Tap for flat-earthers.
A bunch of high-profile FEers on YouTube mirrored it on the day of release, and within a couple of days, they'd pulled it because they realised they'd been had.
Look on YouTube. Not hard to find retractions and backpedalling.
It supposedly took 7 years to make, but nobody ages during this.
At one point, they claim a reading of 15 km, but this is voiced over a display which shows 1.5km
It even has a Cast List in the end credits, and most of the cast seem to be the extended family of the lead role.
The lead role has intitials 'UFO'
Googling provides NO data for any of the cast, apart from the 'Music Critic' listed. Wouldn't you expect SOMETHING about them, IF they were real scientists ...?
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so strange that we dont see evidence of the flat earth
Here you go.
It's a 7 year long research done by many scientists to find the real shape of our earth. They're either all very good liars or we actually live on a flat earth where BIGGER LIERS have constructed a false "Global" reality to hid something from us. I wouldn't be surpised, ONE BIG LIE (Moon landing) and all the puffed up pride has just led to series of lies that have gone too far (that's it's not funny anymore).
You should watch his video where he shatters a plate with his mind. He was visited by aliens when he was a kid and now has super-powers. OR...he is charlatan making a quick buck off the gullible. Typical FEer, believe anything that agrees with your POV without investing any time to see if it is factually accurate.
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You also need to understand that flight paths are changed depending on weather, geopolitical situations, ect. Right now it probably isn’t safe to have passenger planes traveling near the border of Pakistan, India and Afghanistan. A route over the Indian Ocean is much safer and doesn’t increase the travel time much.